The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Kishido
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Kishido » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:27 pm

Worst thing about SSJ4 Vegeta is the fact that it was just for Gogeta and marketing and actually he did nothing on his own.

All the hype has been dead in GT after they showed that without Bulma's machine he can't transform again.

Hell even Goku LOLed at him

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TobyS
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by TobyS » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:53 pm

As a Humans/Piccolo fan I have litterally no sympathy for Vegeta fanboys crying about his perceived lack of wins.

Vegeta is a lousy martial artist and even worse person compared to Son Goku, there's no reason Vegeta would be able to beat someone Goku couldn't.

If someone was weaker then both of them, they wouldn't be much of a threat in the first place, and Goku letting Vegeta take the win would be just a charity hand out.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by gofishus » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:24 pm

Vegeta has always been used to beat up "minor villains" and never the main villain - that was reserved for Goku and Gohan. But the problem I have with Super in general is that the fights are too short. I mean Vegeta spent more time beating up Pui Pui then facing against Black. Give the guy a chance Toriyama! at least make it longer than 3 seconds...

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sintzu
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:41 pm

gofishus wrote:Vegeta has always been used to beat up "minor villains" and never the main villain.
TobyS wrote:There's no reason Vegeta would be able to beat someone Goku couldn't.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by jplaya2023 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:46 pm

[quote="sintzu"][quote="gofishus"]Vegeta has always been used to beat up "minor villains" and never the main villain.[/quote]

[quote="TobyS"]There's no reason Vegeta would be able to beat someone Goku couldn't.[/quote]

[spoiler][img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7aT3 ... witter.gif[/img][/spoiler][/quote]

frieza doesn't count. He was tired and worn out

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:47 pm

jplaya2023 wrote: frieza doesn't count. He was tired and worn out
And Vegeta still ended up getting blown the fuck up, and then had to be saved by Goku. Again.
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:56 pm

jplaya2023 wrote:Frieza doesn't count.
Image
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THEGOKU
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by THEGOKU » Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:59 pm

Vegeta is the second fiddle he will never get a main character kill. He ruined his chances of that when he didn't finish Cell in his 2nd form. Not a hater of Vegeta because I would be happy if he did beat black cause it be for Trunks and as a dad myself that is kind of cool. Sadly probably won't happen.

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:02 pm

THEGOKU wrote:I would be happy if he did beat black cause it be for Trunks and as a dad myself that is kind of cool. Sadly probably won't happen.
Zamasu wants to kill Goku so Goku won't be able to handle him and Black so if both teams aren't going to use fusion then chances are Vegeta and maybe Trunks will fight and beat Black while Goku takes care of Zamasu.
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by SansrivaaL » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:11 pm

sintzu wrote:
jplaya2023 wrote:Frieza doesn't count.
Image
You know putting that gif doesnt really help.... it feels more like that gif represents us looking at your posts about how you see Vegeta's role in RF.
Hell I'm just playin with you, peace out mate. I find it cool that youre into Vegeta this much.

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LightBing
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by LightBing » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:17 pm

This thread is a mini habitat for the awfulness that afflicted this forum, after Piccolo's fight at the tournament.
I'll try to make a meaningful contribution.

The main point is, no character is owed anything. This isn't communism, the writer can do whatever he wants. It's fair to question his choices but to pit characters against each other is nonsensical.
In this particular case, I'm fine with either Goku, Vegeta and Trunks getting to finish Black. They all have good reasons.
My only disappointment is that the fight wasn't good enough for me. Hopefully the manga will improve upon it.

By the way Vegeta is my favorite character.

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Anime Kitten » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:24 pm

I think I just forgot the point of this thread. :wtf: Okay, Vegeta doesn't get enough kills. So what? Goku gets all the kills. So what? Will you not be satisfied until Goku and Vegeta are evenly trading villain kills? "Goku Kill Count: X" "Vegeta Kill Count: Y-- oh, never mind, he's also at X now."
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:34 pm

sintzu wrote:
THEGOKU wrote:I would be happy if he did beat black cause it be for Trunks and as a dad myself that is kind of cool. Sadly probably won't happen.
Zamasu wants to kill Goku so Goku won't be able to handle him and Black so if both teams aren't going to use fusion then chances are Vegeta and maybe Trunks will fight and beat Black while Goku takes care of Zamasu.
Vegeta is going to do no more.

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Yomi » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:I think I just forgot the point of this thread. :wtf: Okay, Vegeta doesn't get enough kills. So what? Goku gets all the kills. So what? Will you not be satisfied until Goku and Vegeta are evenly trading villain kills? "Goku Kill Count: X" "Vegeta Kill Count: Y-- oh, never mind, he's also at X now."


You should read the first post to figure that out.
Every video, every comment, section and every thread about this episode rattles on about Vegeta losing. As if he wasn't supposed to.
So I ask "what did you expect?" and then I summarized Goku and Vegeta's win Ratio over the course of super and how it conflicts
with the general opinion that Vegeta always loses and Goku always wins. I thought it would be an interesting topic for people to talk about since it's
so heavily discussed anyway.

Do you understand now?
:clap:

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Anime Kitten » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:21 pm

You didn't mess up by making the thread, but I got completely lost in the whole thing, namely how we got from discussing Vegeta's villain defeat rate to arguing over who understands the character and who doesn't.
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Cipher » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:59 pm

LightBing wrote:This thread is a mini habitat for the awfulness that afflicted this forum, after Piccolo's fight at the tornament.
I wish we'd had a vivarium for it then.

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by omaro34 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:28 pm

Cipher wrote:
LightBing wrote:This thread is a mini habitat for the awfulness that afflicted this forum, after Piccolo's fight at the tornament.
I wish we'd had a vivarium for it then.
I must admit, I was one of those outraged after Piccolo lost to Frost. It was absolutely justified, but an outrage nonetheless. I took a month long break from Super after that infamous March 6 episode.

This morning I took the liberty of going back & reading those outraged posts and my rants, and let me tell ya, I was belly laughing.
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by Miracles » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:07 pm

Why are Vegeta fans insulted that he was able to fight Super Saiyan Rose blow for blow?
He stopped a punch, which in turn became a sword, kind of a sneak attack.
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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by TobyS » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:33 pm

sintzu wrote:
gofishus wrote:Vegeta has always been used to beat up "minor villains" and never the main villain.
TobyS wrote:There's no reason Vegeta would be able to beat someone Goku couldn't.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

:roll: Yeah I've seen the movie :lol: I just meant if both are full health. If Goku is wounded and Vegeta wins, Vegeta only won *because* Goku was wounded. If Vegeta can't win then it doesn't prove anything because Goku wasn't able to fight that guy, the villain has yet to fight the strongest Dragon Team guy. Vegeta is an inferior fighter and person to Son Goku.

The only way Vegeta could be relevant is if there was someone strong enough that he had to duo-him *with* Goku. Otherwise any Vegeta fight is just a side-show and not the main event:

https://youtu.be/BGV6QjtdulY?t=9m30s - 9:50
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The Vegeta Controversy - What did you expect?

Post by ShaneisMC » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:15 pm

TheMikado wrote:The controversy is that Vegeta never gets credit for saving the day. Gohan got one, I guess Piccolo got one with Radditz, Trunks technically got a few in his own timeline plus the mecha Frieza save. The complain is that Vegeta's only function is to make Goku look good and never gets to save the day himself against the big Bad.

This one was particularly bad similar to the Hit one where Vegeta was out in like three punches as SSB but Goku fights Hit in base.. He was just conpletely upstaged even at supposedly similar power levels and this time the enemy added insult to injury by stating Vegeta was nothing and he was waiting to fight Goku for he real battle. After a while I guess fans get tired of hearing that even if the character doesn't.
In Vegeta's defense, while he may not technically have much/any "major" official finishing kills (as a good guy) he if nothing else has done some great things at least a couple of times that were it not for his assist there's no guarantee we would have won. It was Vegeta that killed/mopped the floor with the Ginyu force in a lot of ways. Or at least pre zenkai stalled them. He destroyed Android 19 and could have beaten 20. It was Vegeta who blasted Cell with enough force to allow Gohan to finish him off. Vegeta commited suicide in order to kill Buu. Granted it failed but it was a pretty damn good try. Vegeta also survived long enough to stall for Goku to do what he needed to do and then the entire plan to use the Dragon Balls and have the earthlings help kill Buu as well as restoring Goku to full power to unleash the thing. He also soundly defeated Freeza as well. His only "loss" was a bs cheapshot to immediately blow the planet. Vegeta also beat the majority of the Universe 6 fighters by himself. Vegeta has done a lot of stupid things, and really hasn't gotten that super star moment when it was needed most (for the most part). But a strong support player is every bit as important as the guy in the spotlight. Without the backup, the main guy/crew may not have been able to do it alone.

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