Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

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Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by ryou766 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:59 pm

Recently, I've re-read all 15 chapters of Toyotaro's DBS manga and there has been something that I've been thinking about: In comparison with his anime counterpart, is Toyotaro's Goku more smarter and mature than Toei's Goku?

In the manga, I feel as though Toyotaro manages to retain Goku as his old fashioned self. Whereas in the anime, Toei seems to have made Goku more childish than he should be; something that has been noted time and time again by a large percentage of the fandom.I personally find Toyotaro's Goku more tolerable than Toei's Goku.

What do you all think? Are their differences between the two, or none at all?

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:20 am

Agreed. Toyotaro's Gokuu is more like Gokuu to me. There is a sense of progression in his character. Whereas the anime except for King Ryuu all the writers write Gokuu as if they don't fully understand the character.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:26 am

Toyotaro's version of Goku doesn't pick up perfectly where we left off with him in Toriyama's Boo Arc, but he is a hell of a lot closer than Toei's version most of the time.
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Sodhi » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:28 am

Toei is trying to make goku kid friendly. Well considering the time slot, I get why that is the case.What I mean by that is added dumb comedic moments.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Miracles » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:43 am

Toriyama's version of his Dragonball Super Goku in both the manga and anime is fine.
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:57 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Toyotaro's version of Goku doesn't pick up perfectly where we left off with him in Toriyama's Boo Arc, but he is a hell of a lot closer than Toei's version most of the time.
Everything about Toyotaro's Goku reminds me of the Synthetic Human Arc.

Edit: "Synthetic" was a typo, but I like it so much, I can't make myself change it to "Artificial".
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:51 am

For the longest time, Toei had a habit of making Goku a tad more traditionally heroic and serious than Toriyama's Goku. I guess now they decided to fix that, after having Toriyama involved in newer material like Battle of Gods, but maybe swung a little too far in the other direction? That's just my feeling, I guess.
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Chuquita » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:11 am

I'm not bothered by Super's Gokû in general. I'm mostly enjoying him, both Toyotaro's and Toei's. Toei's Vegeta's irritated me more lately to be honest.

I appreciate Toyotaro utilizing Gokû's ssjg form outside the BOG arc though. I was so sad to see that form go. It's nice it's getting cameos imo.
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Gig » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:50 am

Chuquita wrote: I appreciate Toyotaro utilizing Gokû's ssjg form outside the BOG arc though. I was so sad to see that form go. It's nice it's getting cameos imo.
I'm uncertain about that. On one hand, it's nice to see all forms make their own cameos... on the other hand, it may seem a bit strange to see it again without using the ritual, after its time ran out (although maybe in the manga, they did not expressly said that the transformation time ran out, when Goku turned back normal?)...

About Goku behavior, in the manga he still needs Vegeta to explain him about the 12 universes again... and he really risked to fail at the tournament initial test (it's revealed he did pass with the minimum score required). Just to say he's still somehow stupid/ignorant also there. I do not yet know if he will foget bringing senzus before going to batte also in the manga...
Of couse, Goku has many less "stupidity" moments in the manga than in the anime... but one has to consider that the manga is much "faster" than the anime, and many happenings are just outlined there... so many (more or less) "funny" moments have just been omitted...

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Saturnine » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:15 am

I've come around to accepting Toyotaro's reintroduction of SSjG.

It's a tidy enough solution to the whole "two bases" debacle that the anime has created. The anime still hasn't explained why sometimes the guys are saiyans beyond god and go only to SSj Blue (RoF, Potafeu) and other times they have their full array of transformations.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:48 am

Chuquita wrote:I'm not bothered by Super's Gokû in general. I'm mostly enjoying him, both Toyotaro's and Toei's. Toei's Vegeta's irritated me more lately to be honest.

I appreciate Toyotaro utilizing Gokû's ssjg form outside the BOG arc though. I was so sad to see that form go. It's nice it's getting cameos imo.
I agree. If anything it's Vegeta's characterisation that is annoying me a bit, 56 I thought was better then anything Vegeta related in the arc and surprise surprise Ryu wrote that episode.
Then again Ryu wrote 54 I didn't like how Vegeta was handled there rewatching that episode it bugged me slightly. And yes seeing SSG form time to time is pretty cool I'd give him props for that he definitely loves that form!


Anyway as per the OP, I don't think they can be compared Toei have several different script writers and are producing the show weekly wheras Toyo is one person and has only a monthly schedule to work with and with an X amount pages don't think he has time to showcase Goku's shenanigans even if he wanted too.
Saturnine wrote:I've come around to accepting Toyotaro's reintroduction of SSjG.

It's a tidy enough solution to the whole "two bases" debacle that the anime has created. The anime still hasn't explained why sometimes the guys are saiyans beyond god and go only to SSj Blue (RoF, Potafeu) and other times they have their full array of transformations.
It doesn't really need too. It's pretty obvious they can cycle through the forms just depends if they fancy going SSGSS from the start.
Like Gohan could still go SS in Mystic even though it would be pointless.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Gig » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:35 am

Saturnine wrote:The anime still hasn't explained why sometimes the guys are saiyans beyond god and go only to SSj Blue (RoF, Potafeu) and other times they have their full array of transformations.
Uh? What has to be explained here? Goku and Vegeta can just choose to use god ki or not, hence transforming to blue or yellow ssj... It looks like they do still use yellow ones only when they want to test their opponents strength before revealing their full power. But there is no problem in them going from base directly to blue if they like.

Writers may have made Goku use yellow against non-golden Frieza and Copy-Vegeta use yellow against Gotenks? Yes, they could have, and maybe that would have been even more coherent... but at that time, writers wanted to stress how strong they become even in base form...
Also, at the time they wrote the RoF movie, MAYBE authors had not yet decided whether to still allow them to go yellow or not...

It is not known if the anime Goku can still use the red form, like it does in the manga. He uses it in the manga against Hit because that was enough without the need to use Blue (Vegeta failing just because in the manga using Blue two times in a short time gives you only 1/10 of usual strenght because it consumes too much stamina is a thing that left me quite "meh... :-/".), right? In the manga, Hit finished being much weaker than in the anime...

Excuse me, what's the definition of "saiyans beyond god" you are referring to? I think I already heard it once, but I can't recall exactly...
Is it something like Goku and Vegeta using god ki without actually tranforming (a thing that does not seem to happen often)?
Last edited by Gig on Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:58 am

Gig wrote:
Saturnine wrote:The anime still hasn't explained why sometimes the guys are saiyans beyond god and go only to SSj Blue (RoF, Potafeu) and other times they have their full array of transformations.
Uh? What has to be explained here? Goku and Vegeta can just choose to use god ki or not, hence transforming to blue or yellow ssj... It looks like they do still use yellow ones only when they want to test their opponents strength before revealing their full power. But there is no problem in them going from base directly to blue if they like.

Writers may have made Goku use yellow against non-golden Frieza and Copy-Vegeta use yellow against Gotenks? Yes, they could have, and maybe that would have been even more coherent... but at that time, writers wanted to stress how strong they become even in base form...
Also, at the time they wrote the RoF movie, MAYBE authors had not yet decided whether to still allow them to go yellow or not...

It is not known if the anime Goku can still use the red form, like it does in the manga. He uses it in the manga against Hit because that was enough without the need to use Blue (Vegeta failing just because in the manga using Blue two times in a short time gived you only 1/10 of usual strenght because it consumes too much stamina is a thing that left me quite "meh... :-/".), right? In the manga, Hit finished being much weaker than in the anime...

Excuse me, what's the definition of "saiyans beyond god" you are referring to? I think I already heard it once, but I can't recall exactly...
Is it something like Goku and Vegeta using god ki without actually tranforming (a thing that does not seem to happen often)?
Yeah SbG is them using God Ki in Base form. When the movie rolles around Heroes labelled their "F" base forms as SbG.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:02 am

They're both nothing characters who're just there to fight people because reasons. Neither versions say or do anything remotely interesting with him. I'll give Toyotaro Goku the edge simply because he doesn't come off as stupid enough to shit his own pants randomly like anime Goku does.
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by TheMikado » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:12 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Gig wrote:
Saturnine wrote:The anime still hasn't explained why sometimes the guys are saiyans beyond god and go only to SSj Blue (RoF, Potafeu) and other times they have their full array of transformations.
Uh? What has to be explained here? Goku and Vegeta can just choose to use god ki or not, hence transforming to blue or yellow ssj... It looks like they do still use yellow ones only when they want to test their opponents strength before revealing their full power. But there is no problem in them going from base directly to blue if they like.

Writers may have made Goku use yellow against non-golden Frieza and Copy-Vegeta use yellow against Gotenks? Yes, they could have, and maybe that would have been even more coherent... but at that time, writers wanted to stress how strong they become even in base form...
Also, at the time they wrote the RoF movie, MAYBE authors had not yet decided whether to still allow them to go yellow or not...

It is not known if the anime Goku can still use the red form, like it does in the manga. He uses it in the manga against Hit because that was enough without the need to use Blue (Vegeta failing just because in the manga using Blue two times in a short time gived you only 1/10 of usual strenght because it consumes too much stamina is a thing that left me quite "meh... :-/".), right? In the manga, Hit finished being much weaker than in the anime...

Excuse me, what's the definition of "saiyans beyond god" you are referring to? I think I already heard it once, but I can't recall exactly...
Is it something like Goku and Vegeta using god ki without actually tranforming (a thing that does not seem to happen often)?
Yeah SbG is them using God Ki in Base form. When the movie rolles around Heroes labelled their "F" base forms as SbG.
There's a VERY large portion of the fan base who do not believe that's true. Hence all the debates and threads about it.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by SansrivaaL » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:31 am

True I've noticed this as well, Toei's making Goku look a hell of a lot like Luffy when it should be the opposite since Luffy was supposed to be based off of Goku, but I get it since OP is a lot more popular than DB, but that doesnt mean they should make Goku feel more Luffy than Goku himself.

Toyo's done a good job with Goku so far hence why I prefer the manga a lot more than the anime counterpart.

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:35 am

Gig wrote: Uh? What has to be explained here? Goku and Vegeta can just choose to use god ki or not, hence transforming to blue or yellow ssj... It looks like they do still use yellow ones only when they want to test their opponents strength before revealing their full power. But there is no problem in them going from base directly to blue if they like.
This is nothing but speculation and the anime has done nothing to address this. The movies had God Ki become their default energy source, the manga has made their God Forms just stronger transformations they can use while the anime initially went with the movies absoprtion only to possibly back peddle on it later on. I mean, if you're fine with Cabba being God Tier IE thousands of times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto but never, eeeeevvvveeerrrrrr got threatened or agitated enough to turn SS that's entirely your right. Me? That's a serious load of bullshit. Hence why a two base theory exists.
Gig wrote:Writers may have made Goku use yellow against non-golden Frieza and Copy-Vegeta use yellow against Gotenks? Yes, they could have, and maybe that would have been even more coherent... but at that time, writers wanted to stress how strong they become even in base form...
Also, at the time they wrote the RoF movie, MAYBE authors had not yet decided whether to still allow them to go yellow or not...
The writers can make Goku one shot Beerus if they wanted to next episode, doesn't change the fact they keep on stressing how Goku and Vegeta have a ways to go before they can so much as wipe Beerus' ass at full power. Let alone actually beat him. This isn't an excuse, it's bad writing, coherence shouldn't be an optional thing. Either make shit at least somewhat make sense from episode to episode or drop all pretense of it and go full retard.
Gig wrote:It is not known if the anime Goku can still use the red form, like it does in the manga. He uses it in the manga against Hit because that was enough without the need to use Blue (Vegeta failing just because in the manga using Blue two times in a short time gived you only 1/10 of usual strenght because it consumes too much stamina is a thing that left me quite "meh... :-/".), right? In the manga, Hit finished being much weaker than in the anime...
Goku absorbed God into himself in the anime, this is evidenced by the fact that when he reverts to Super Saiyan, he doesn't power down. In the manga? Goku's fight with Beerus is over the second he loses God and later chapters show him treating God as another, much more powerful transformation he can use. Not an enhancement on his base. Plus, the manga has always made people weaker than the anime. Goku and Vegeta are leaps and bounds inferior to Super Boo, Gotenks and Gohan at the end yet the Z anime has them leaps and bounds more powerful than pretty much everyone else up until that point. The fact Goku can fight Kid Boo, said to be the strongest version of Boo in the anime, is proof of how they handle things differently.
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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:40 am

TheMikado wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Gig wrote: Uh? What has to be explained here? Goku and Vegeta can just choose to use god ki or not, hence transforming to blue or yellow ssj... It looks like they do still use yellow ones only when they want to test their opponents strength before revealing their full power. But there is no problem in them going from base directly to blue if they like.

Writers may have made Goku use yellow against non-golden Frieza and Copy-Vegeta use yellow against Gotenks? Yes, they could have, and maybe that would have been even more coherent... but at that time, writers wanted to stress how strong they become even in base form...
Also, at the time they wrote the RoF movie, MAYBE authors had not yet decided whether to still allow them to go yellow or not...

It is not known if the anime Goku can still use the red form, like it does in the manga. He uses it in the manga against Hit because that was enough without the need to use Blue (Vegeta failing just because in the manga using Blue two times in a short time gived you only 1/10 of usual strenght because it consumes too much stamina is a thing that left me quite "meh... :-/".), right? In the manga, Hit finished being much weaker than in the anime...

Excuse me, what's the definition of "saiyans beyond god" you are referring to? I think I already heard it once, but I can't recall exactly...
Is it something like Goku and Vegeta using god ki without actually tranforming (a thing that does not seem to happen often)?
Yeah SbG is them using God Ki in Base form. When the movie rolles around Heroes labelled their "F" base forms as SbG.
There's a VERY large portion of the fan base who do not believe that's true. Hence all the debates and threads about it.
Don't believe is what true? Where the term originated from? Or the God Ki in Base form? If that then they are able to use God Ki in SS to get SSGSS then surely they can use Gid Ki in base?

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by Lujin_16 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:43 am

If you like the Dragonball Goku and Ruffy of One Piece you will like Goku in Super only hardcore dbz fans will have their problems...

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Re: Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

Post by TheMikado » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:02 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Yeah SbG is them using God Ki in Base form. When the movie rolles around Heroes labelled their "F" base forms as SbG.
There's a VERY large portion of the fan base who do not believe that's true. Hence all the debates and threads about it.
Don't believe is what true? Where the term originated from? Or the God Ki in Base form? If that then they are able to use God Ki in SS to get SSGSS then surely they can use Gid Ki in base?
Exactly, a large part believes they cannot turn God Ki on or off and it's only accessible as SSB. Are you really not familiar with the "two base theory" drama in this forum?

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