No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:22 pm

I guess I'm one of the few people who haven't actually watched Super yet. I've taken peeks at it...and by peeks, I mean I've seen the first opening and ending theme, and inevitably, images and phrases have crossed my path while cruising YouTube and the internet in general (so, for example, I have a bare-bones minimal awareness that apparently Goku has what looks like an evil twin of unknown origin called Black Goku). Other than that, I've decided to wait until I can watch the show on home video. So, without giving away any spoilers or going into particularly specific details.........generally speaking, how is Super so far? Feel free to either describe it or rate it on a scale of 1-10 (I'd be fine with breaking it down by arcs, if that helps).

Essentially, I'm just trying to figure out if I should be excited, or consider it a let-down and lower my expectations accordingly.
Last edited by TheBlackPaladin on Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Lujin_16 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:29 pm

I don't like to give a rating to early because i like to wait when the series ends and than i give a overall rating


But i can say that Thre Trunks arc is great so far..

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Bullza » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:43 pm

Ehhh it's not easy to give a general consensus.

The low point of the series was the Resurrection F saga, specifically the latter half of that saga. Since then it has gotten better and better. It only really started to feel like Dragon Ball Z again with the latest saga in my opinion.

The animation has been spotty but it's improved. It has been getting darker and more serious like what DBZ was. The story at the moment has been very interesting and the villains have been the best in a while.

Overall I've found it very entertaining and enjoyable. It's far better than Dragon Ball GT. It's not as good as Dragon Ball Z but if it can maintain the quality of this current saga from here on out or even improve then it will start to be much more comparable.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by theoriginalbilis » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:17 pm

I'm quite enjoying it, personally.

Admittedly, the first two arcs (BoG and RoF) aren't anything special, especially if you've seen the movie versions. But there are fun moments. I do rather like how the Super versions bridged the gap between the two stories really well though, and even expanded on certain events and transformations. If you want to skip the majority of these episodes, but still get semi-important material that the movies didn't have, I actually like the recommendation of a certain DBZ FAQ on Reddit:

The combination Super/Movies route: Watch episodes 1 and 2 of Dragon Ball Super. Watch Battle of Gods. Watch Episodes 15-18 of Dragon Ball Super. Watch Resurrection 'F'. Then continue with Episode 28 of Super.

The quickest route (for the lazy/impatient): Watch Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F'. Then continue with Episode 28 of Super.

Now for the good stuff. Episodes 28 and onwards (the Champa and Future Trunks arcs) have had some of the best material Dragon Ball has had in a long time IMO. The Future Trunks arc in particular has taken the story in a direction I didn't expect from this franchise. These recent arcs are well worth your time, and probably super (haha) important because future animation or manga material will probably branch out for the lore introduced in these episodes.

The animation is, in all honestly, noticeably sloppier than DBZ/GT in places, but still looks plenty good in many episodes. Still doesn't hamper my enjoyment too much, but it's worth noting. The music is serviceable, but there's maybe like... five memorable tracks in the Super OST.

I don't have much else to say... Check it out when you can. We're probably not getting a dub for at least half a year though.
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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:31 pm

By all means, other Kanzenshuuers, feel free to continue posting, but thanks very much to the ones who have responded so far--I'm excited now!
theoriginalbilis wrote:We're probably not getting a dub for at least half a year though.
Heh, that doesn't bother me a ton...I was determined that my first times seeing BoG and RoF would be in theaters, so I was able to restrain myself for a few years, cumulatively.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Boo Machine » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:09 am

Like everyone says, if you've seen the two movies then you can get away with skipping the first 27 episodes. Battle of gods arc was decent but the Ressurection F arc was a really low point in the series though I heard from people who hadn't seen the movie version say they enjoyed the Super version. So maybe there is something there.

Anywho when it gets to the new stuff is when it gets fun. Especially as it goes. certain moments may get to you depending on what you're looking for in the series (And there is always that one thing somebody doesn't like) but it's overall a pretty fun ride so far, with me dying for the new episode every week for the past few months or so. It's not better than Z but it still good in it's own right I feel.

The one thing that Super does really well though is those little moments where characters just hang around or goof to interact with one another. Those episodes are usually Really heart warming or really funny and just add a tad bit more depth to a character that you might have otherwise not seen before.

The fights vary in quality due to some production issues. But I feel the majority of fights range from pretty good to Great! (There are a few that are just bad though) They aren't as long these days with the longest fight being about an episode and a half. So if a really lengthy fight is your cup of tea then you might not get that here.

The show is also a little more light hearted with the the current arc being as dark as it's ever gotten. Even then it still has it's fair share of goofy moments. Which I personally like.

I say if you plan on getting into it now is a pretty good time. Especially if you've been successful in avoiding spoilers thus far.
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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by sintzu » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:07 am

If you've seen the BOG movie then you can skip its arc but I think you should see it just to make up your own mind about it.

The RF arc is different from the movie so you should watch it even if you've watched the movie and I personally think it's a lot better than the movie due to the changes they made to it.

The Champa arc was average to good.

The current arc has been good so far but there's a thing they've been doing that's getting repetitive but the villain has been one of the franchise's best.

The production and writing quality has been very hit or miss, when it's good it's really good but when it gets bad you'll wish it never existed.

I'm not sure where your expectations should be cause you're going to have a very different experience if you plan on watching an arc at once instead of an episode each week so what we thought was a major flaw might not bother you cause 20 minutes later you'll see something a lot better so you'll forget about said flaw.

I think you'll be fine if you don't expect anything ground breaking or as good as Z so assuming the current arc ends on a high note I think I'll give it a 5-6/10.
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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by sangofe » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:15 am

theoriginalbilis wrote:I'm quite enjoying it, personally.

Admittedly, the first two arcs (BoG and RoF) aren't anything special, especially if you've seen the movie versions. But there are fun moments. I do rather like how the Super versions bridged the gap between the two stories really well though, and even expanded on certain events and transformations. If you want to skip the majority of these episodes, but still get semi-important material that the movies didn't have, I actually like the recommendation of a certain DBZ FAQ on Reddit:

The combination Super/Movies route: Watch episodes 1 and 2 of Dragon Ball Super. Watch Battle of Gods. Watch Episodes 15-18 of Dragon Ball Super. Watch Resurrection 'F'. Then continue with Episode 28 of Super.

The quickest route (for the lazy/impatient): Watch Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F'. Then continue with Episode 28 of Super.

Now for the good stuff. Episodes 28 and onwards (the Champa and Future Trunks arcs) have had some of the best material Dragon Ball has had in a long time IMO. The Future Trunks arc in particular has taken the story in a direction I didn't expect from this franchise. These recent arcs are well worth your time, and probably super (haha) important because future animation or manga material will probably branch out for the lore introduced in these episodes.

The animation is, in all honestly, noticeably sloppier than DBZ/GT in places, but still looks plenty good in many episodes. Still doesn't hamper my enjoyment too much, but it's worth noting. The music is serviceable, but there's maybe like... five memorable tracks in the Super OST.

I don't have much else to say... Check it out when you can. We're probably not getting a dub for at least half a year though.
I pretty much agree with what's said here. Although I haven't thought much about the music, I can say that it's very fitting for the Trunks saga. Not so much for the first couple of sagas, or I guess it might've just grown a lot on me.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:30 am

You know, it's surprisingly hard for me to answer this. I'd like to say I detest everything about Super and that there is literally not a single redeeming quality about it, but that's probably because I can't help but compare it to DBZ, which, despite airing in the 90s, is simply superior in literally every conceivable way, including art and animation, sadly. And I'm not one of those "ohhh, the original was better!" fanboys. I mean, really, DBZ is so much better, it's sickening to believe Super was released in this day and age.

In truth, the show, on its own, is just mediocre. There's nothing special about it, but kids will enjoy it. It won't have much of a lasting effect. But for what it is, it's enjoyable.

As for the arcs, the first two are worth skipping if you've seen the movies. The Champa arc is horrifically executed, with missed opportunities in every corner, absent characters that should be present, and terrible animation and choreography that plagues all but two of the fights. There's not even a tournament vibe, as there are no audience members watching. Besides two fights, it's a boring arc.

The Black arc is pretty much the only thing worth talking about in regards to Super. It's the best by far, but still poorly executed and repetitive. The concepts are great, and the villains are cool, as well as had potential to be among the best of all time, but they fall short. I have no doubt that if Toriyama, with the help of editors, drew and wrote this arc during DB's prime (pre-Buu, preferably), it'd probably be the best arc in the entire series.
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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Bullza » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:59 am

I don't agree with anyone saying to skip the first two sagas. Yeah they're retellings of the movies but were only talking 27 episodes, not dozens upon dozens.

Those sagas also showed what happened before and between those movies aswell and there's still plenty of differences even if the general story is the same.

Some of the set up for the Universe 6 saga was introduced in the Resurrection F saga too.

You certainly don't wanna skip anything like that.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:08 am

Skip the retellings just like everyone else said and it will be a much better experience. However, if you care about the animation you might want to check them out cause there are eps which beat the movie, but they are very few so it's up to you.

The Champa arc is a mixed bag, but an enjoyable one especially after the first two or three fights are finished. The animation quality improves and so does the direction, and despite the plot being average it is thoroughly entertaining.

Gokuu Black arc has been even more fun, the writing has already surpassed the quality of the overrated piece of crap that the Cell arc is. Marathoning it would give you a much better experience.

The music and sound effects are the only problem cause they aren't memorable like Kikuchi Shunsuke's score and Arai Hidenori's sound effects were, but you'll get used to it.

I know the animation is something people love to jump on to hate Super, but I would just like to say if you can tolerate the ugly crap in Z, that is Ebisawa and Uchiyama eps for the most part you can easily sit through the bad animated eps of Super. It has it's lows but it also has it's highs just like the original series. The animation is serviceable.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Gig » Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:54 am

In short: don't expect "the anime series of the decade", or you will be dissatisfied. But if you love Goku & Co, you can enjoy the show!

Of course, art and animation has got high points and low points, as well as pace which is at times too slow and at times feels rushed... coherency isn't its best (if you search for "power scaling" coherency, you will get only headaches!), some things are not explained, Goku is sometimes portrayed too dumb, and the Pilaf Gang sometimes gets too much screen time... But I still find the show enjoyable and it has got some cool moments.
As someone said, probably don't having to wait a whole week between episodes will help you "forgive" the slow or badly animated ones more easily.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Cipher » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:28 am

Frustrating.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by SaiyanZ » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:12 am

I'm personally very underwhelmed by it. There are a few moments here and there I enjoy, but the presentation of the episodes (whether it be the writing of a character or episode, or how an episode is cut/edited, or a specific track that plays, etc.) has more of then than not, turned me off. Still, its Dragon Ball and I'll watch regardless. If I were to score it, I'd say its a 6-7/10. The first arc with Beerus is to me easily the best so far.
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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Saturnine » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:41 am

The story of the current arc is really good, it's highly recommended.

If you like consistent power scaling, it's gonna frustrate the shit outta you though. Reintroducing the regular Super Saiyan forms for Goku and Vegeta was the worst thing they could have done.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by sangofe » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:26 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:You know, it's surprisingly hard for me to answer this. I'd like to say I detest everything about Super and that there is literally not a single redeeming quality about it, but that's probably because I can't help but compare it to DBZ, which, despite airing in the 90s, is simply superior in literally every conceivable way, including art and animation, sadly. And I'm not one of those "ohhh, the original was better!" fanboys. I mean, really, DBZ is so much better, it's sickening to believe Super was released in this day and age.

The Black arc is pretty much the only thing worth talking about in regards to Super. It's the best by far, but still poorly executed and repetitive. The concepts are great, and the villains are cool, as well as had potential to be among the best of all time, but they fall short. I have no doubt that if Toriyama, with the help of editors, drew and wrote this arc during DB's prime (pre-Buu, preferably), it'd probably be the best arc in the entire series.

Man, reading all your comments I think you'd really hate Dragon Ball Z if you'd go back and rewatch it... You must be blinded by nostalgia and the fact that you were younger when you watched it. I can't come up with any other reason...

Did you really go back and analyze the animation of DBZ, and art? I don't think you're going off by anything else than selective memory here... Because damn, DBZ had a lot of ugly looking episodes, too.

One thing I do think Super gets better than DBZ is the humor and slice of life. DBZ didn't do that too well, except for Great Saiyaman, of course. I will say that the best super episodes are as good, or better than the best DBZ episodes.

How can you say that the black arc is poorly executed and repetitive?

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Gig » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:01 am

sangofe wrote:How can you say that the black arc is poorly executed and repetitive?
Warning: this thread author asked for "no spoilers"!

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:13 am

sangofe wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:You know, it's surprisingly hard for me to answer this. I'd like to say I detest everything about Super and that there is literally not a single redeeming quality about it, but that's probably because I can't help but compare it to DBZ, which, despite airing in the 90s, is simply superior in literally every conceivable way, including art and animation, sadly. And I'm not one of those "ohhh, the original was better!" fanboys. I mean, really, DBZ is so much better, it's sickening to believe Super was released in this day and age.

The Black arc is pretty much the only thing worth talking about in regards to Super. It's the best by far, but still poorly executed and repetitive. The concepts are great, and the villains are cool, as well as had potential to be among the best of all time, but they fall short. I have no doubt that if Toriyama, with the help of editors, drew and wrote this arc during DB's prime (pre-Buu, preferably), it'd probably be the best arc in the entire series.

Man, reading all your comments I think you'd really hate Dragon Ball Z if you'd go back and rewatch it... You must be blinded by nostalgia and the fact that you were younger when you watched it. I can't come up with any other reason...

Did you really go back and analyze the animation of DBZ, and art? I don't think you're going off by anything else than selective memory here... Because damn, DBZ had a lot of ugly looking episodes, too.

One thing I do think Super gets better than DBZ is the humor and slice of life. DBZ didn't do that too well, except for Great Saiyaman, of course. I will say that the best super episodes are as good, or better than the best DBZ episodes.

How can you say that the black arc is poorly executed and repetitive?
Well, I'm watching Kai for the first time thanks to Toonami and, music aside, I love it. I'm not saying DBZ was a gorgeous masterpiece with perfect animation. I'm saying the art and animation are leagues ahead of Super. Keep in mind I watch Kai hours after Super airs, so it's easy to compare. For example, episode 60 of Super, which has a significant battle, aired the same day the Goku vs Cell battle aired in Kai. The latter was so bloody superior, it made my jaw drop--that fight was as cool as I remembered! DBZ looking better wouldn't be an issue if it didn't air two decades ago..

Honestly, the slice of life and humor in Super annoys me because the majority of characters aren't presented as they used to be. But taking these episodes for what they are without comparing, I suppose they are cute/fun.

I won't answer your question about why I think the Black arc is poorly executed and repetitive out of respect to the TC, who doesn't want spoilers, but I've voiced my opinion on it in other threads.
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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:20 am

It was slow at first with the retelling of Battle of Gods and Revival of F, but it's gotten really good with the latest arc. The current villains are some of the best the series has ever had.

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Re: No-Spoilers Question: How is Super so far?

Post by Chuquita » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:32 am

I'm mostly in the "Watch eps 1 and 2, BOG, then eps 15-18, then Resurrection F, then eps 28 onward." camp.

There's a few differences in Super's version of the movies, but nothing that directly affects the plot where if you choose the movies instead you won't be lost. I enjoyed seeing an alternate take on BOG, but wasn't that wow'd with alternate F.

Champa arc is good for the fights, but don't expect much plot. Surprisingly heartwarming resolution at the end though.

Future Trunks arc has been entertaining. The animation had really picked up this arc. If I had one complaint it's that I was a little disappointed in a "my true identity is--!" reveal, had been hoping it had been something else.
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