"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by MajinMan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:15 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Honestly, it’s not like the dub of Kai didn’t also have weird lines that weren’t in the original, like Nappa’s once infamous “I hate the media” line, or Goku making a joke about Internet connection.
From what I’ve seen on the internet, people did actually criticize the Nappa line when it aired, so it’s not like they let it go. Kai as a whole was still more accurate than Super is. You don’t even need to watch either series to know this. All you need to hear is how Sabat talks about the two shows. For Kai, he said it was a chance to create an accurate dub to make up for what they did in the past. For Super, well, everyone has already seen it so let’s spice it up.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:24 pm

MajinMan wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:Honestly, it’s not like the dub of Kai didn’t also have weird lines that weren’t in the original, like Nappa’s once infamous “I hate the media” line, or Goku making a joke about Internet connection.
From what I’ve seen on the internet, people did actually criticize the Nappa line when it aired, so it’s not like they let it go. Kai as a whole was still more accurate than Super is. You don’t even need to watch either series to know this. All you need to hear is how Sabat talks about the two shows. For Kai, he said it was a chance to create an accurate dub to make up for what they did in the past. For Super, well, everyone has already seen it so let’s spice it up.
That’s why I said that the Nappa line was “once infamous”.

Anyway, I’m fairly certain that the primary reason that people like Sabat and Schemmel kept stressing how accurate the Kai dub was had more to do with them trying to earn some street cred among sub fans, especially after the decade they had spent as the butt of a bunch of jokes. Once they gained that cred, they obviously didn’t feel as much of a need to remind everyone how accurate their dub is.

I’ve mentioned this before, but the approach FUNimation has been taking with their dub of Super seems somewhat similar to the approach they took with Yu Yu Hakusho, which, despite its liberties, is actually one of the most successful non Dragon Ball related dubs that FUNimation has made, on top of being fairly well liked. I’m not saying I don’t understand the disappointment with it, but it shouldn’t be that surprising (although I certainly wasn’t expecting Hit’s donuts line).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:45 pm

nato25 wrote:
Lunatic Fringe wrote:Man, I don’t like how they handled the line from Yancha about Chiaotzu/Tenshinhan. I usually don’t nitpick about sub vs dub line discrepancies, but that one was a little disappointing.
How was it different to the true script? It's been ages since I saw that version of the episode so not sure at all. From a dub perspective though wasn't it a funny throw back to how Tien didn't invite Yamcha to the Ressurection F Fight?
It put a little too much emphasis on Chiaotzu and Tenshinhan “wouldn’t be interested” in playing rather than that they weren’t invited because they couldn’t handle it. It diluted the impact of the callback to RoF for me. Though, it didn’t ruin the scene.

“Time to make the donuts” and “grill master”, though? Yeah, that garbage can get to steppin’. Taking liberties while trying your best to retain the original script is one thing. Purposefully throwing away any sense of integrity for memes crosses the line way too far.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:05 pm

Let's get two things clarified here, the actors performances in the Super dub are great, Masters and Mercer have been stand outs. Super's Dub isn't bad, but the script adaption is. So many liberties and unnecessary changes.

But then there's the whole "It's not as bad as the 90's dub" or "It's not 4kids", correct it isn't as bad as those. But this is Funimation in 2018! It is fair to compare Super's dub to other funimation dubs and what is one dub that has been getting nothing but standout praise? My Hero Academia. MHA has a dub which is phenomenal and it's done by funimation too, I have no idea whos to blame for this, the ADR director? The head writer? The ADR script writer? The producer? It's just flat out disappointing a dub made on a strict schedule weekly is greatly more respectful and superior in production then Dragon Ball Super.

And if we want to talk about liberties being taken too far, there is another funimation dub that made many changes and creative liberties in it's English dub. Steins;Gate. Steins;Gate is a show riddled with many references to Japanese culture and internet lingo, it was a tall ask for the English dub to make this work but they did by appropriating some Japanese jokes with English equivilant memes. This is one of the most respected dubs Funimation has even done in the community. So what makes this a pass and Super a fail in adaption? Respect for the source. The jokes in Steins;Gate are put where places a joke existed in the Japanese version and the English equivilant joke is one that does it's best to carry across the meaning that was intended for Japanese audiences. Instead Super is taking some admittedly generic jokes, and over appropriating them with memes. It's comparable to 4Kids taking the rash speaking not very polite Jounouchi and turning him into the Brooklyn accented Joey Wheeler. It's taking adaption too far.

This hit example stands out most because while Super's adaptive choices have been questionable, never has it taken a serious moment, a deceleration of murder and turned it into a meme that if you haven't played Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 or lived in America in the 80's apparently (Us Aussies have no idea what the hell "It's time to make the donuts" means). This isn't just the USA adaption but the ENGLISH adaption, so this fails even more by being a reference to something many English speaking countries have no idea about. It's just a trainwreck from every point of view.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:13 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Honestly, it’s not like the dub of Kai didn’t also have weird lines that weren’t in the original, like Nappa’s once infamous “I hate the media” line, or Goku making a joke about Internet connection.
Yeah, I remember the internet connection line in particular triggered a huge freakout on here.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jean0987654321 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:46 am

TheOne wrote:
Ajay wrote:This dub is such a joke. What year is it?! These types of ridiculous decisions just keep piling up. It's the 90s all over again.

It's incredibly frustrating to know that we're back to a point where I'm not even discussing the same show with someone who watched it dubbed.
People are overreacting. Some people actually like that kind of stuff. Not everyone is obsessed with purity of subtitles like most of you guys.

There are plenty of casual watchers who like the corny humor etc. it’s part of why dragon ball was popular in the 90s. Too many stuck up people who constantly indulge in Japanese anime/manga have a condescending attitude towards this stuff. Nobody is making you watch it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by MrTennek » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:52 am

Ajay wrote:This dub is such a joke. What year is it?! These types of ridiculous decisions just keep piling up. It's the 90s all over again.
Holy hyperbole, Batman. I agree that Super's dub is a significant step back from Kai's, but to say it's on par with the late 90's Funi dub? That's just ridiculous. Inserting a stupid line here or there is nothing compared to them completely rewriting / reinterpreting entire scripts back then. :eh:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:03 am

While this comment probably won't gel with the mostly sub audience of Kanzenshuu (I do prefer the dub but have no quarell with sub and more than understand people want a faithful adaptation), I feel like it's pretty obvious Funimation are towing the line of pandering to their dub fans while also trying to make a faithful script. The end result, some sort of inbetween thing that's mostly faithful but will dip into old dub pandering when it thinks it can.

It's definitely a more fun dub than faithful, I can't say I mind it and to me nothing has been grossly changed that has ruined an episode anymore so than perhaps the already poor script (let's be honest Super isn't the most well written show) already did.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kogu 87 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:48 am

The "time to make the donuts" line is both hilarious and ridiculous at the same time.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:46 am

Personally, I can see why people are frustrated with this dub's changes.

Yes, its not as bad as the original Z dub but that's not saying much because that dub was created at a time when Funimation didn't have good source materials to base their dubbing off. Now they have good source material, the actors, as far as we know watch the Japanese version before recording their lines, they understand the characters.

Sabat, Schemmel et al have good intentions when it comes to playing these roles, and their performances have been on par with, if not better than their work in Kai.

The script however... I can forgive punched up lines of dialogue such as Roshi's Blu-Ray line or Goku forgetting his tractor, but when a joke is inserted into a serious scene, that is a problem.

The whole point of keeping Kai's dub as accurate as possible was to ensure that the people watching it in English were getting the same experience as those who saw it in Japanese, that even if you only had time to watch one you could still be on the same page with someone else talking about that product, there was no conflict.

Funimation are running the risk of splitting the fanbase again, as they did in the late 90s and early 2000s, you could make an argument that now, 71 episodes in it has already happened.

Yes, no one is going to be running around saying Hit is a brilliant scientist or whatever, but if they are saying he's a character who makes corny jokes like the donut one, then the dub is misleading someone. Its exactly the same as Freeza saying "Pop goes the weasle", its out of character and is jarring in a scene that's not meant to be funny.

I'm not going to write Super's dub off entirely, there have been plenty of great episodes that have maintained Kai's level of accuracy and stayed consistent with the tone of the Japanese version. When the tone is changed that's when it becomes a problem. It's no different than Faulconer's score playing during scenes that should have silence. Yes I am glad this dub is keeping the Sumitomo score, but dialogue that changes the tone of a scene, as the donut line did, has the same effect. It's an attempt at improving the show when TOEI, not Funimation should take responsibility for that.

As I say I can forgive punched up dialogue, and having fun with the script, I can, but when its in direct contradiction to what was intended for a scene, that is an issue that should be addressed and not brushed under the carpet as "just one line".

Funimation are truly running the risk of their cast being the butt of all jokes again and the sub and dub wars continuing on their watch. It's just ridiculous they went out of their way to stop that from happening in Kai and had the cast talk proudly of doing it right and making up for their past mistakes.

With all due respect to Sabat, did he mean it when he said we've all seen the Japanese version so why not do something different with Super's dub or was he following orders. It just doesn't make sense he would say one thing about Kai's dub and say the exact opposite for Supers.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a decision made by someone higher up that since Z's dub performed better on TV and home video than Kai that Super should have changed dialogue, or that an attempt should be made to appeal to both audiences, because, as I say the script has been accurate for the most part, its not as bad as the 1996-2003 dub, I get all that, but its still a step down from Kai in terms of accuracy, and why take a step down however small and risk splitting the fandom if you can retain the same level of quality and keep the fandom united?

I have enjoyed much of Super's dub, but this episode was definitely a disappointment.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:59 am

See the problem I have is this thread only blows up when there is "controversy" then all of a sudden everyone wants to chime in, when instances like the Dr Slump episode which was fantastic instead of getting pages and pages on that we get pages and pages on "star of the show" or "make the donuts" one line that lasts a few seconds. Some folks just seem quick to criticise but not praise, that seemed the same with the series itself (which is why I just stayed away from the episode discussion threads).

I am not gonna say every decision they made is good but I also don't think any decision they made is really that bad to warrant reactions. After the line I was like "oh" and that was it forgotten about then come on here and people acting like it is the end of the world. This is the same show in which Toei made the Yamcha mean into an actual thing or need I remind you of #100 it's like they didn't have any shame. Nothing FUNi have done is even remotely as bad as that, nothing as remotely as bad as "lame show" in Kai 2.0.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:26 am

I can understand just watching a scene thinking "oh they did that" and moving on, I can do that with things like Vegeta's "star of this damn show". That doesn't change the tone of the scene, the donut line does because, as Lord Beerus pointed out this is the episode Hit kills Goku, "time to make donuts" hurts the integrity of that scene because they could have had fun with the line without changing the intent.

The lines themselves are throwaway lines, sure, but it becomes a problem when Funimation are convinced its ok to change the intent of a scene, and as I've said they are dangerously close to that here.

As I've said I'm not going to just bash the dub and saying the sub is only way to watch it. I give Funimation credit where its due for retaining accurate scripts for the most part, understanding the essence of the characters, keeping the original score, the cast giving good performances, retranslatimg the subtitles, putting both the English and Japanese audio tracks on the Blu-Rays. They are doing a lot of good, so why not do the same by not changing the intent of a scene through added jokes? It worked for Kai, there's no reason not to do it here unless they feel this is needed for the series to sell better (its not).
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:58 am

Ajay wrote:This dub is such a joke. What year is it?! These types of ridiculous decisions just keep piling up. It's the 90s all over again.

It's incredibly frustrating to know that we're back to a point where I'm not even discussing the same show with someone who watched it dubbed.
Wow, you're overreacting. It was a bad line, but the overall dub is still fine.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:52 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:See the problem I have is this thread only blows up when there is "controversy" then all of a sudden everyone wants to chime in, when instances like the Dr Slump episode which was fantastic instead of getting pages and pages on that we get pages and pages on "star of the show" or "make the donuts" one line that lasts a few seconds. Some folks just seem quick to criticise but not praise, that seemed the same with the series itself (which is why I just stayed away from the episode discussion threads).

I am not gonna say every decision they made is good but I also don't think any decision they made is really that bad to warrant reactions. After the line I was like "oh" and that was it forgotten about then come on here and people acting like it is the end of the world. This is the same show in which Toei made the Yamcha mean into an actual thing or need I remind you of #100 it's like they didn't have any shame. Nothing FUNi have done is even remotely as bad as that, nothing as remotely as bad as "lame show" in Kai 2.0.
Given that this site focuses on the Japanese version it's no surprise that this thread's activity spikes when the faithfulness of the dub to it comes into question. Funimation's job is to maintain that faithfulness, their blunders aren't to be compared to Toei's. And while it's true that people aren't rushing to praise what they got right...generally, most people don't get praised for doing what they're supposed to do. When you do a good job for an extended period of time is when people will look back and praise your effort. That, or do a horrible job on your first effort and then do much better on a second attempt. That tends to elicit praise.

I've had a continual problem with the changes the dub has made. Every episode has a dozen alterations that bother me, from the small to the "value added". I've only complained about it once before here, because 1) I don't want to spoil the mood, and 2) I don't want to be told by this thread's regulars about how I'm overreacting and that it's fine. So the buildup to criticize is slow from my perspective. If other people are anything like me, then instances like this are viewed as a chance for "the truth" to be unarguably stated.

But, of course, it's argued nonetheless. Some won't even so much as admit that it changed the tone of the scene. Worse, people start arguing that it is Funimation's place; that they have a #artisticlicense to make any changes they want. Let me quote one of Funimation's ADR directors, Joel McDonald, on that subject:
It's my job to cast a show, to work with the talent coordinator to get the actors scheduled, and to really recreate the exact same experience that was already created in Japan. It's our goal that an English speaking audience that watches our dub gets the exact same experience as the audience that watched it in its original language. So, we don't change anything, we don't "fix" anything—we do what they did, and just make as few changes as we can to make it acceptable to an American or English speaking ear. Which is trickier than it sounds. I know a lot of the times some of the companies that work for FUNimation, and others included, kind of get a bad rep for localizing, which is kind of a dirty word — but, you know, for "Americanizing" properties. And that's never our intention. Our intention is always to create the same experience, but with cultural differences and societal differences and things like that, things necessarily have to change from time to time.
And you can tell me if you think this is the attitude they approached the donut line with; that a comedic idiom was the best or only way to replicate the sentiment and feeling the line invoked in Japanese.

I think there's cause to question the extent to which they employ this attitude towards the whole series. The entire franchise, even, looking at their DBFZ dub.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by mecha3000 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:17 am

I have to admit, me being someone who usually gets more hyped about the dub more over the sub (while still coming to appreciate the sub as many fans have): The lines "grillmaster" and "time to make the donuts" threw me off. I even turned to my brother and said, "Funimation is having too much fun with this dub. It's getting too memey." However, I understand their mindset and some fans have even confirmed it based on Sabat's quote: Many, if not most fans have already seen Super online, so they're not appealing to the sub watchers. However, this could prove to be a bad thing because it affects the experience of the dub watchers.

At the end of the day, though, I don't really blame Chris Sabat or Funimation too much. I feel a little awkward for Sabat, however, because he told Geekdom in their interview that he wasn't the one being told to make the changes to Z, yet now with Super - it seems like it is him. I wonder how Geekdom feels about this since he's already addressed the dub's cute meme line change feel. I can already see the video coming where he's like, "The dub is taking this whole meme feel even farther than I thought and it's not fun anymore!!!" I guess Geekdom's alright with it for the most part if it doesn't ruin the characters/plots too much.

My opinion is, I think Funimation got tired of comments like, "Who cares about the dub?" or "The dub sucks. Watch the sub" while also taking into consideration that this is a different world than it was when Z came out. Back then, many of us were only able to catch the dub on television or by going to Blockbuster/F.Y.E or whatever. Now, Super is available for legal viewing on multiple platforms in its entirety subbed, which gave many of us a shared watching experience with Japan. Hell, Mexico had STADIUM VIEWINGS ON THE SUB!!! So, Funimation probably looks at that and is like, "Let's not appeal to the sub watchers because there's no point. They're not watching our version so let's have fun with it instead of straight up re-doing what the sub did and what many fans feel is already superior to our version." From that point of view, I don't blame them. They're just trying to make the dub its own thing similar to Yu Yu Hakusho so years from now when Super becomes more a classic show, the dub can stand out as its own unique viewing experience and not rehash of what the sub did. STILL, THEY DO NEED TO CALM DOWN WITH SOME OF THE CHANGES THOUGH.

Lastly, Super (especially with how Funimation sometimes handles the dub) makes me miss when I was younger watching Kai on Nicktoons/purchasing the home releases. Kai overall, especially 1.0, is more faithful than Super while also giving the series a new voice through the dub. For this reason, I cherish Kai - especially because it made my 13 year old past self appreciate accuracy is dubs, a concept I hadn't previously given much thought to, if any.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by VirtuaBranson » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:47 am

Any chance that Donut line is going to get changed for the BR or are we stuck with it?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:17 pm

Ajay wrote:This dub is such a joke. What year is it?! These types of ridiculous decisions just keep piling up. It's the 90s all over again.

It's incredibly frustrating to know that we're back to a point where I'm not even discussing the same show with someone who watched it dubbed.
Oh please. Stop overreacting. It’s no way close to a “different show”

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by DB_Fan1991 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:21 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Ajay wrote:This dub is such a joke. What year is it?! These types of ridiculous decisions just keep piling up. It's the 90s all over again.

It's incredibly frustrating to know that we're back to a point where I'm not even discussing the same show with someone who watched it dubbed.
Oh please. Stop overreacting. It’s no way close to a “different show”
Exactly, this isn’t Pokémon Sun & Moon where the Japanese & English versions feel like different shows. At least DBS gets a subbed release in English speaking territories. TPCi outright refuses to release a subbed version.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by AzuraRacon » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Oh god is this all this thread is gonna be for the next few weeks?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by DB_Fan1991 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:31 pm

AzuraRacon wrote:Oh god is this all this thread is gonna be for the next few weeks?
God I hope not.
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