"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by AzuraRacon » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:08 am

Good news is, when I contacted Funi’s support about the UI episode, they seemed to confirm the home video sets will not have this frame drop issue

They dodged my other question about Ultimate Battle though

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by AzuraRacon » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:14 am

Y’all are right though this framedropping is both awful and inconsistent

There are reused shots that are framedropped one time and regular the next

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by UltraPrimus22 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:26 pm

Alright, a couple of general dub and Toomai related notations from Twitter:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by GTx10 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:20 pm

Two questions where the US Dub broadcast "debut of UI" episodes connected and extended or were they separated and cut down? The next question will the Home video release have the connected, extended version of these episodes. This is far more important than frame rate dropping and a few Dub errors.
"Good luck, Kakarrot... You are the Champion!!" Vegeta DBZ ShonenJump Manga Volume 26 p.113

I'm reviewing Dragon Ball! Both the Jap ver. and Uncut Funi Dub! Check out the thread: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=31208

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by UltraPrimus22 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:44 pm

GTx10 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:20 pm
Two questions where the US Dub broadcast "debut of UI" episodes connected and extended or were they separated and cut down? The next question will the Home video release have the connected, extended version of these episodes. This is far more important than frame rate dropping and a few Dub errors.
Toonami's Episodes 109 and 110 were aired on separate Saturdays (May 4 and 11 respectively), so it's the alternate cut made for reruns and Crunchyroll, rather than the full 44-minute episode from the initial broadcast and Funimation's simulcast.

The Japanese home releases do include both the edited and full one-hour specials. Part 8 of the Funimation home releases (July) will go up to Episode 104, while Part 9 will mostly include episodes 109 and 110 in a similar manner to the Japanese release.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by SuperSaiyanPan » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:55 pm

Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheNingen » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:55 am

SuperSaiyanPan wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:55 pm
Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 am

TheNingen wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:55 am
SuperSaiyanPan wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:55 pm
Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w
:wtf: That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheNingen » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:41 am

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 am
TheNingen wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:55 am
SuperSaiyanPan wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:55 pm
Does anyone have a clip of this frame-dropping? Me and my friend work and always miss it so we download it (Not saying how or where) but the copy I get is the Japanese release with the english dub applied to it so I apparently don't see this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-yowAAiDZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vQ0U49Zr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_EruUsrc0w
:wtf: That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.
Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:55 am

TheNingen wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:41 am
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 am
:wtf: That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.
Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.
Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by SuperSaiyanPan » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:28 pm

A mod posted a thread on the DBZ sub with a clip of the frame drops, holy fucking shit man. Yeah I didn't see all that, I'd be furious too if I were you all. Good news is Toonami execs are addressing this issue.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by UltraPrimus22 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Okay, so right before Episode 114 debuts tomorrow, DeMarco finally released an update on the situation.
  • The slowdowns were done on the broadcaster's end (so Toonami/Adult Swim/Turner in this case). As some people may have figured, DeMarco cites the infamous "Pokemon Shock" incident to explain the current "Harding Test" standards broadcasters must abide by.
  • Developed by Cambridge Research Systems Ltd, the "Harding Test" is an internationally used, mandated video analysis software test that combs through footage to pick up potential causes for photosensitive epilepsy (ex: really fast motion, flashing effects, etc).
    If one scene fails the automated test, the broadcaster has to alter the footage through any means (ex: ghosting, dimming, or reducing frame rates) and try again until they're perfectly clear.
  • For context: Back on August 8th, 2018, Adult Swim had to pull a music video (Aphex Twin’s Collapse) precisely because it didn't meet the Harding Test standards. That 5-minute segment had to an online exclusive.
  • DeMarco further adds the program editors had reduced the affected scenes featured in Episodes 110-113 to 4fps. The editors do this kind of thing routinely, so they didn't inform the higher-ups at the time. From now on, if a scene does fail the Harding Test, they will be reduced by 2fps (which they claim is an improvement). This is the best they can do in this situation.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ajay » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:09 pm

UltraPrimus22 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:29 pm
This is the best they can do in this situation.
For what it's worth, I don't really agree with this assessment. Japan has to adhere to those standards too, and Fuji TV dealt with this like any other channel does: dimming and ghosting. It looks significantly better than absolutely gutting the frame rate down to single digits.

Here's how Fuji handled it - https://streamable.com/zc5fc

Here's Toonami - https://streamable.com/0an52

Blu-ray for comparison - https://streamable.com/7wrea

It's just a really bizarre way of tackling the mandates, and while it's true that additional standards beyond the Harding test vary from channel to channel, there's no indication that Toonami had any sort of excessive rules on top of what's legally required.
UltraPrimus22 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:29 pm
they will be reduced by 2fps (which they claim is an improvement).
For clarity, it's not reducing the original frame rate by 2fps, but reducing it down to 2fps, instead of the previous one frame per second.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:32 pm

Ajay wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:09 pm
For what it's worth, I don't really agree with this assessment. Japan has to adhere to those standards too, and Fuji TV dealt with this like any other channel does: dimming and ghosting. It looks significantly better than absolutely gutting the frame rate down to single digits.

Here's how Fuji handled it - https://streamable.com/zc5fc

Here's Toonami - https://streamable.com/0an52

Blu-ray for comparison - https://streamable.com/7wrea
I know virtually nothing about video editing, so I offer my apologies in advance if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer. That said, how labor-intensive is it to dim and ghost footage as opposed to cutting down the frame rate? I'm essentially trying to understand if ghosting and dimming a video requires more time and precision than just slowing the frame rate down.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ajay » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:41 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:32 pm
I know virtually nothing about video editing, so I offer my apologies in advance if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer. That said, how labor-intensive is it to dim and ghost footage as opposed to cutting down the frame rate? I'm essentially trying to understand if ghosting and dimming a video requires more time and precision than just slowing the frame rate down.
Not intensive, at all. Pretty much two drag and drop filters and you're done.

I'm not even joking when I say I think I'd have an easier time doing that than cutting down the FPS in those scenes. :lol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheNingen » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:01 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:55 am
TheNingen wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:41 am
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:16 am

:wtf: That’s awful. They actually broadcast that? Glad I’ve just been waiting for the blu-ray. I wouldn’t be able to stand watching that.
Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.
Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.
Sorry that you have issues with things other people have problems with. I didn't know I had to appeal to your standards or views of quality in order to win a sarcastic retort. I'm so so sorry to have disappointed you.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:49 am

TheNingen wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:01 pm
Scsigs wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:55 am
TheNingen wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:41 am
Honestly thought something was wrong with my TV when I was watching 110. I've kinda given up on the dub now after this.
Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.
Sorry that you have issues with things other people have problems with. I didn't know I had to appeal to your standards or views of quality in order to win a sarcastic retort. I'm so so sorry to have disappointed you.
You're misunderstanding my words. I've seen people bring up legit arguments as to not watch the dub. The framerate of the TV broadcast is not a valid excuse to stop watching the dub. That's something you can bring up with not watching the Toonami broadcast because it's a legitimate complaint, but it's not a valid excuse to just drop the dub. You can watch the fan edits of the BR rips edited to have the dub's audio or wait for the home media releases, my guy. You're overreacting.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Scsigs

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Wilderness » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:49 am

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:49 am
TheNingen wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:01 pm
Scsigs wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:55 am

Oh, bad framerate issues. THAT'S where you should draw the line with the dub.
Sorry that you have issues with things other people have problems with. I didn't know I had to appeal to your standards or views of quality in order to win a sarcastic retort. I'm so so sorry to have disappointed you.
You're misunderstanding my words. I've seen people bring up legit arguments as to not watch the dub. The framerate of the TV broadcast is not a valid excuse to stop watching the dub. That's something you can bring up with not watching the Toonami broadcast because it's a legitimate complaint, but it's not a valid excuse to just drop the dub. You can watch the fan edits of the BR rips edited to have the dub's audio or wait for the home media releases, my guy. You're overreacting.
I didn't see TheNingen mention it was the sole reason why they've stopped watching the dub. It could easily be the straw that broke the camels back.

Also, it is not up to you to decide if it's a 'valid excuse' or not whether someone wants to end their viewing of the dub. Overreacting or not, this user is fully justified to be put off by this particular moment and not wish to dabble in the dub any further.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:15 pm

Ajay wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:41 pm
TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:32 pm
I know virtually nothing about video editing, so I offer my apologies in advance if this is a stupid question with an obvious answer. That said, how labor-intensive is it to dim and ghost footage as opposed to cutting down the frame rate? I'm essentially trying to understand if ghosting and dimming a video requires more time and precision than just slowing the frame rate down.
Not intensive, at all. Pretty much two drag and drop filters and you're done.

I'm not even joking when I say I think I'd have an easier time doing that than cutting down the FPS in those scenes. :lol:
Huh. Well that makes Toonami's decision to cut the frame rate all the more confusing, then. Makes me wonder why they didn't go the dim-and-ghost route, since it looks better (or rather, doesn't look as bad) compared to cutting the frame rate, and is easier.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:07 pm

Wilderness wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:49 am
I didn't see TheNingen mention it was the sole reason why they've stopped watching the dub. It could easily be the straw that broke the camels back.

Also, it is not up to you to decide if it's a 'valid excuse' or not whether someone wants to end their viewing of the dub. Overreacting or not, this user is fully justified to be put off by this particular moment and not wish to dabble in the dub any further.
I mean, I thought of that too. If it's that situation, I guess I can understand a bit better, but I don't think anyone would take "low framerate on the TV broadcast" as a legitimate, valid, or actually serious reason as to outright stop watching the dub of this show. I understand if that person wanted to stop watching the TV broadcast, since it's a legit problem with it, but that's not actually a dub problem, it's a broadcast problem. It's like the person was looking for a reason to drop the dub than anything, which it is a bad reason.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Scsigs

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