Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

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DBZ Macky
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Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by DBZ Macky » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:40 am

We saw in episode 66 that the Potara fusion is in fact, not permanent.
This has led me to wonder, is there any advantage of the Metamorese fusion over the Potara?

Let's discuss the various properties of both the methods of fusion:

1. Time Limit
Potara: 1 hour
Metamorese: 30 minutes

It's clear that the Potara is superior. One thing we do not know is how much time it takes one to fuse with the Potara once again after defusing.

2. Power
Again, it seems that the general consensus is that Vegetto is way more powerful than Gogeta. Although there have been multiple debates regarding this.

3. Usability
Potara: Put on some goddamn earrings
Metamorese: do some dance that is not only difficult to learn but also pretty silly...

Well I guess if Trunks can learn the Mafuba from watching "How to: Mafuba- by Piccolo", then anyone can learn the dance easily too. And I guess the villains would just... sit around while our heroes perform the dance?

So, does anyone have anything to add on to this, or can you bring any counterarguments in favor of the Metamorese fusion technique?
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by emperior » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:34 am

They will probably add a "recharge" time to potara...
And also it doesn't seem like Kaioshins would gift Goten and Trunks (the only two users of fusion on a regular basis) a pair of potara earrings. Although it would be great to see a potara fusion of Goten and Trunks but it won't happen.
Also both the metamorese and the potara fusion have incredible drawbacks right now, Toriyama's idea is probably to make them as useless as possible to move on from fusion. Something I honestly am 100% happy as fusion had its use in Buu arc but it shouldn't be the answer to every problem.
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Totamo » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:36 am

Weren't they just plot devices in the first place?

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:27 pm

emperior wrote:They will probably add a "recharge" time to potara...
And also it doesn't seem like Kaioshins would gift Goten and Trunks (the only two users of fusion on a regular basis) a pair of potara earrings. Although it would be great to see a potara fusion of Goten and Trunks but it won't happen.
Also both the metamorese and the potara fusion have incredible drawbacks right now, Toriyama's idea is probably to make them as useless as possible to move on from fusion. Something I honestly am 100% happy as fusion had its use in Buu arc but it shouldn't be the answer to every problem.
I second this..
While fusion is cool, it's best if that is not the answer to all dire situations..
Totamo wrote:Weren't they just plot devices in the first place?
Every thing in a story is pretty much a plot device..
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by DBZ Macky » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:01 pm

emperior wrote:Toriyama's idea is probably to make them as useless as possible to move on from fusion. Something I honestly am 100% happy as fusion had its use in Buu arc but it shouldn't be the answer to every problem.
I completely agree with this, fusion needs nerfing. It fulfilled its purpose in the Buu arc, it's about time we shift our focus on new things like God Ki.

Fusion isn't relevant anymore, in fact, it shouldn't be.
This is precisely why I can't understand what's wrong with the people DEMANDING that Beerus should be weaker than Vegetto.

On a side note, Gotenks probably won't even appear anymore. The only thing he had going for him was his power... which is pretty much irrelevant at this point.
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:13 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:3. Usability
Potara: Put on some goddamn earrings
Metamorese: do some dance that is not only difficult to learn but also pretty silly...
Not anymore. Toriyama confirmed that once both fusees master the technique, the dance is not necessary but the fingers part.

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by DBZ Macky » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:19 pm

Grimlock wrote: Not anymore. Toriyama confirmed that once both fusees master the technique, the dance is not necessary but the fingers part.
Thanks for sharing this, I'll be grateful if you could also share where this is stated :)

In any case, we've never seen Gotenks being formed without the dance IIRC.
And Goku and Vegeta certainly haven't mastered the fusion, nor do I think they would ever think of mastering it.
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by simtek34 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:20 pm

Piccolo's dreams have bean realized, Trunten might come soon! (Because Piccolo kept calling Gotenks "Trunten" in the Boo arc)
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:56 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
emperior wrote:Toriyama's idea is probably to make them as useless as possible to move on from fusion. Something I honestly am 100% happy as fusion had its use in Buu arc but it shouldn't be the answer to every problem.
I completely agree with this, fusion needs nerfing. It fulfilled its purpose in the Buu arc, it's about time we shift our focus on new things like God Ki.

Fusion isn't relevant anymore, in fact, it shouldn't be.
This is precisely why I can't understand what's wrong with the people DEMANDING that Beerus should be weaker than Vegetto.
Thirded. I'm actually very glad that the Potara fusion had a weakness retconned into it. Because it now solves two problems: 1) Why Vegetto defused in the first place inside Super Boo 2) Why Goku and Vegeta don't use the Potara earrings often.

Look, I find Vegetto very entertaining, but I don't want him to have to be essentially the "Get Of Jail Free" card whenever things go up shit creek for the cast. Let them come up with another solution that doesn't involve a plot device like fusion.

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Nejishiki » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:26 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:Thanks for sharing this, I'll be grateful if you could also share where this is stated :)

In any case, we've never seen Gotenks being formed without the dance IIRC.
And Goku and Vegeta certainly haven't mastered the fusion, nor do I think they would ever think of mastering it.
Dragon Ball Full Color: Majin Boo Arc Volume #04 (04 July 2014) wrote:Q3: Is there any importance to those seemingly pointless “Fu” and “Sion” poses?
Toriyama: They’re incredibly important!
The series of movements leading up to “Ha!” are important for syncing the two people up and also concentrating their minds. But once you get really good at it, it’s also possible to merge with just the “Ha!”
Furthermore, while Potara is stronger, it's never specified how much stronger. Literally speaking, Goku and Vegeta, of similar time periods, will always form a stronger Vegetto than they would Gogeta. It's just not implied to be an overwhelming difference.

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by irreality » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:39 pm

The downside of the potara is that you have to have this object that only the Kais have and is easily destroyed. I don't think Kaioshin is jut giving his potara away to Goku and Vegeta permanently. Like, I can't envision Kaioshin lending his potara to Trunks and Goten. You can always do the fusion dance, though, no need for Godly permission.

I don't think we'll see Gogeta in this series anytime soon, though.

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:36 pm

irreality wrote:I don't think we'll see Gogeta in this series anytime soon, though.
Even if SSJB Gogeta happens, it will literally last like five seconds before it diffuses. I mean, if SSJB Vegetto can burn through the one hour time limit in about 10 minutes, I highly doubt the Fusion Dance will do any better.

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by emperior » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:01 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
irreality wrote:I don't think we'll see Gogeta in this series anytime soon, though.
Even if SSJB Gogeta happens, it will literally last like five seconds before it diffuses. I mean, if SSJB Vegetto can burn through the one hour time limit in about 10 minutes, I highly doubt the Fusion Dance will do any better.
It was 10 minutes from our perspective. In-universe, that was probably just one minute, maybe even less.
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by fexus » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:00 am

The fusion dance doesn't need the earrings which is limited in number. They can do the fusion dance anywhere.

I don't want to discuss about power but it's true that Vegetto is more powerful but it looks like the fusion dance got more varied moves.

You don't have the earring, you are in trouble. Earrings can also be destroyed.
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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:13 am

fexus wrote:The fusion dance doesn't need the earrings which is limited in number. They can do the fusion dance anywhere.

I don't want to discuss about power but it's true that Vegetto is more powerful but it looks like the fusion dance got more varied moves.

You don't have the earring, you are in trouble. Earrings can also be destroyed.
That is one of many reasons Gogeta should be the one to appear in Dragon Ball Super. That way it doesn't force a character who shouldn't appear down our throats.

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:22 am

I always thought:
Vegetto=Everything positive to create a new character
Gogeta=Everything to create a new character

The main reason is that both Gotenks and Gogeta seem to have all their positive but also negative characteristics amplified. Gotenks is silly, which many people explained as "both been kids" then we see Gogeta acting like that.

On the other hand Vegetto seems to be more of a strategist and a quick thinker. Even in his return in super Vegetto is pretty much dominating from the first sec. No jokes or bs.

In my opinion fusion dance lost its purpose. Yes it's a quick way of fusing without the earnings but in general potara outclass it

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Re: Has the Metamorese fusion now become useless?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:34 am

We don't see Gogeta acting silly in Movie 12. :eh:

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