Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:22 am

Ending brought this one up a lot. Still wouldn't hold it up to any of the manga arcs — and it still has the problem of feeling, in the grander scheme of things, like a tacked-on story — but that was a really solid, unexpectedly affecting ending.
Chuquita wrote:-What a strange, strange ending.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:41 am

I honestly thought that this was a good arc. Though there seems to be some asspulls such as Trunks's new form (unexplained BTW) and other instances of blatant bad writing, I still genuinely enjoyed this saga. It was surely a great step up from the previous arcs that had zero tension and drama. We actually see the characters genuinely struggle against both iterations of the main villain. We are left to figure out how the protagonists will be able to prevail against an immortal being and an infinitely power-growing monster.
Missed opportunities are the fact that I wished we could've seen more of the character interactions between No. 18 and Trunks. Not to mention, Trunks should've stayed in the main timeline longer to spend more time with the characters we know and love. Which is why I thought the ending to this arc was a tad bit rushed imo.

An overall 8/10 for me. Maybe a B+, if you will.
Last edited by Freeza9000 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:42 am

Great story with some issues. I like how it has a serious tone but with some wacky humor still throw in. Not to mention Zamasu is probably the best written villain that we had in a long time in my opinion. I wish Future Trunks didn't become a walking PIS with him becoming stronger out of nowhere. It reminds me how Goku was in DBZ Movies 1-13 was.

I do think Goku Black was better than what most people hope for. Everyone was hating the idea of Goku Black when it was first announce since the idea of a Evil Goku has been over done in bad Dragon Ball AF fan fics since the early 2000's. Not to mention the idea of evil counter parts in general is over done. I think Toriyama really pull it off and I think Toriyama working story ideas for a long time allows him to write better. He did wrote the story since summer 2015 from what I can remember.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by DragonHermit » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:18 am

My issues:

- Ass pulls for moves
- Explain the fucking moves/transformations
- They should have just Mafubad Zamasu. T+M going to new timeline is weird...
- Stop using Xeno as a plot tool. I really dislike him as a character (not him specifically, but his character matched to that position)
- Ending was retarded

What I liked:

- Music. Some fantastic sound tracks
- Animation. Much, much better.
- Really like the slice of life stuff with Trunks
- Goku Black was really the MVP of this arc. Fantastic performance from Nozawa. Best villain character wise in DB franchise (although I liked Frieza/Vegeta better due to their situations). Really going to miss this sadistic mofo

[spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

I liked how they differentiated him from Zamasu. Obviously both were misanthropic, but Black had more of a powerful presence. Zamasu just seemed like a whiny school shooter to quote Rhymestyle.

Overall: 7.5-8/10. Had potential to be much better imo, but nevertheless good.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Kishido » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:39 am

Started vet well, became mediocre in the middle and the end was bad.

Still the best arc in Super

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by dhaval_dongre » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:49 am

Sumitomo really stepped up his game for this arc. It had a great start, amazing Villains in the like of Black Goku and Fused Zamasu. Miki's performance as Zamasu and Nozawa's Black were great.

The ending was unexpected. The Vegitto retcon was fine. I have no issues. The Trunks power up is still a bit jarring to me. Though I think that Trunks ultimately losing and having to go to a new time was interesting. I didn't see that coming. The character development for Vegetta, Trunks, Black and Zamasu in this arc was pretty great.

Trunks deserved the kill, but they should have explained his form or that Genki-dama. The one thing I am confused about is, why wasn't Trunk's battle against Babidi wasn't expanded upon in the anime. We all know about that fight in detail because of the manga, but why did Toei shied away from doing the same ? Are they planning an OVA ? Does Trunk's have the Z sword in the anime's continuity ? Are they gonna use it as a plot point later down the road ? I mean they have heavily implied on the sword throughout the anime. Even Black said in #63, "Put away that damn toy". I know its a wild guess and its mostly false, but there are still some unanswered questions. Lets see whether Toriyama explains any of it on December 18. I hope so at the least.

I will give this arc, a 7 or an 8. I don't think this is the right time for me to give it a proper score, right after I finished the episode. I will give it a rewatch, put some thought into it and then give it a proper score.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:37 am

Pretty much one of the best arcs in db.
It was basically all the positive parts of a db Arc but amplified.
The difference between any other Arc was the great villain.
Zamasu is by far if not the best then in top 3 best db villains.
This Arc is either the best db ever produced or the second only with buu Arc been the best.
It basically showed that with few changes db is possible to modernise.
I never had an issue with time travel (basically it was a pretty easy concept to comprehend and I find it hard to believe that some people still struggle with it)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:46 am

Certainly the best arc in Super so far.
It went by too fast though, 21 episodes?? Yeah, the pacing really bothered me and I suppose this must be because Toriyama's outline didn't set it up as a long arc.
The mystery surrounding Goku Black was nice, but after Whis and Beerus said his ki was similar to Zamasu's, I easily figured out he must have changed bodies with Goku though I was incredibly wrong with the how :lol:

I think I could have done without the Pilaf Gang, but thankfully they didn't interfere that much with the plot. The Super series definitely gives off the impression it's even more geared towards kids, than Z was. I think this is not only because it's an anime(Toei always made DB more kid friendly than the manga), but also because Toriyama has gotten older and it shows in this arc. Props though for updating the "last time on DBS" and next episode preview music with darker tracks, befitting of the arc's atmosphere.

Some problems I had were the timeline shenanigans. I definitely did not like how Beerus' action ended up creating another timeline and how it's only implied that Trunks' time travels in the Cell arc only created one new time ring, when there should at least be 2. The Time Rings were a nice addition though, but some more explanation about them would be appreciated.
The balance of power was thrown out of whack, as per usual with Toei stuff. There's barely any acknowledgement of anything and it goes back to what I've always said, it's just video game logic; characters can fight anyone, even if there really should be a gigantic gap between them.

Lastly Goku and co. going back and forth between the timelines just reeked of poor writing, because they had to draw out the arc a bit more. Good Lord Black and Zamasu were incompetent, failing to kill them 3 times, when they or Trunks alone were about to depart in the time machine. And then there is the horrible transition between the episode where Trunks fends off Black and Zamasu in his newly achieved SS form, so the others can go back in time and find a way to defeat them(here Goku learns the Mafuba, while Vegeta goes to RoSaT) and the next episode where they return. Trunks was fighting Black and Zamasu, but we don't see him escape or anything. In the following episode he's just injured, while Zamasu and Black are chilling in their crib for no reason.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:57 am

It was a thoroughly entertaining arc. Thats what I expect from Dragon Ball. It never was anything more than that and the Trunks arc met my expectations. An average plot just like all of the arcs in the original series(Z included)and GT filled with cool moments. In terms of concept, characters and entertainment it was better than all of GT, Hunt for the DBs, 21st Budoukai, Piccolo Daimaou, Cell and Majin Boo story arcs.

Tomioka Atsuhiro wrote most of the script and he is known for writing amazing battles and exposition and he did that amazingly well. I hope he continues to write scripts for Super.

Now to the most important thing, the animation was much better than the previous arcs. Way better. It has its lows, but overall it's highs overshadow it. I cannot expect more from a fucked up series like Super cause of it's poor schedule. The storyboarding and direction improved too. The highlights were eps #47, #63 and #66.

#66 is arguably the best episode in the franchise and the best of Super by a landslide. Director and storyboard artist Hatano Morio made #66 feel like a climax, while animators Shida Naotoshi, Miuma Kenji everyone involved really gave their all. The storytelling was awesome thanks to the animators and director Hatano Morio. They turned a good script into an episode with interesting and entertaining storytelling.
#47 and #63 do that too but to a lesser extent. #47 had an exciting Kakudou Hiroyuki storyboard and Tate provided most of the key animation. Gokuu Black introduction was the highlight and another instance of good storytelling. #63 was again Tate and Higashide doing the impressive action animation supported by Karasawa Kazuya's engaging direction.

On to the voice work, it was superb. Nozawa Masako as Gokuu Black was incredible in almost every scene. Her Gokuu also was amazing as always. A particular highlight was #61 when Gokuu gets angry. Miki Shin'ichirou as Zamasu has an awesome range and his screams were wonderful. Kusao Takeshi(Trunks) improved and delivered a satisfying performance. Yamada Eiko(Mai) emoted well and I really enjoyed her performance. All of the cast did a good job.

The only negative for me was the music and sound effects. While Sumitomo improved, besides the Gokuu Black theme it still lacks memorabilty. I've had about enough of Sumitomo and I think he needs to be replaced. The sound effects lack impact and it makes even the well-animated scenes less impactful and less exciting. Arai Hidenori COME BACK PLEASE!

Script - 7/10
Animation and Direction - 6/10
Voice work - 9/10
Music - 4/10
Sound Effects - 4/10

Overall rating - 6/10
Last edited by Saikyo no Senshi on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Black_Liger » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:21 am

This arc is hands down the best thing out of the franchise after Freeza's arc, the first part of the arc was shrouded with mystery, things took a darker turn once we arrived in the future, after that the whole thing went insane, sure some flaws here and there, but people go overboard with them as if dbz was some kind of untouchable masterpiece written by Alan Moore, Black is my favorite villain in this series, and Zamasu as a whole blows every other villain in the franchise in terms of development and actual depth, the ending... oh God the ending, bittersweet, I still can't believe Haru, Maki got vaporized... it's the first time in the whole franchise dead really has no way to be fixed... I'm amazed people haven't mentioned this at all, this specific version all of those people, gone, quite possibly their souls too... oh boy... anyways, I don't know how this arc is gonna be topped, as I said, it's better than everything in Z after Frieza.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by IntoTheFire » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:44 am

I liked it. Best of Super, so far at least.
Initially, I was nervous when they decided to bring back Future Trunks because the way his storyline wrapped up in Z was perfect for me. Therefore, I was afraid they were going to ruin it by writing him in the show. But looking back now I am not disappointed with what they've done with him.
There were some questionable moments for sure. Maybe the main was introducing Vegetto rather pointlessly and some fast pacing, but overall I really enjoyed the entire arc. Even the Pilaf gang :D
It had so many great moments that I wanted to see like Future Trunks and Trunks interacting, Vegeta bonding more with Future Trunks......
The story was darker than most od Dragon Ball universe, especially if we include the ending, but then again Future Trunk's timeline was always a rather dark place. When the story started and they killed of Future Bulma I was almost certain they were going to use super dragon balls to wish everyone who died by Zamasu back, especially considering that humans were at the brink of extinction. So when I saw the last episode I was really shocked. Especially by killing of those two kids. I never thought Super was going to take that route. And even though I personally prefer happy endings I was happy with how everything turned out.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:05 am

Black_Liger wrote:I'm amazed people haven't mentioned this at all, this specific version all of those people, gone, quite possibly their souls too... oh boy... anyways, I don't know how this arc is gonna be topped, as I said, it's better than everything in Z after Frieza.
Many people have mentioned this. It's one of the more surprising (a good thing, in my book) parts of the ending.

Like, what an unexpectedly weird ending.

It wasn't all for nothing -- due to Trunks' actions, at least another version of events will exist in which different versions of all those people get to live their lives, and the scene with Gohan at the end reinforced that. It's not the same Gohan he knew, but it's a Gohan, who got to grow up and start a family, and that counts for something. Trunks did that. His own world may not have been saved, but he did that. Ditto for everyone killed by Zamasu.

But it's super, super weird and bittersweet.
Last edited by Cipher on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Black_Liger » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 am

Cipher wrote:
Black_Liger wrote:I'm amazed people haven't mentioned this at all, this specific version all of those people, gone, quite possibly their souls too... oh boy... anyways, I don't know how this arc is gonna be topped, as I said, it's better than everything in Z after Frieza.
Many people have mentioned this. It's one of the more surprising (a good thing, in my book) parts of the ending.

Like, what an unexpectedly weird ending.
Oh, I'm relieved then, it is an uncommon ending for a Dragon Ball Arc.
There's room for only one snake, and one big boss.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by precita » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:29 am

Its hard to believe an arc that literally sounded like some 15 year olds fanfiction:

1. Evil Goku
2. Future Trunks returning
3. An evil Kai
4. Mai is back as Trunk's love interest
5. Vegito comes back as a new Super Saiyan
6. Multiple timelines going back and forth
7. Yajirobe surviving in a dead future
8. A whole universe/timeline being destroyed
9. Super Saiyan Rose

....turned out to be one of the best arcs of the show.

I'm sure you can find some of these concepts in the last 20 years of Dragonball Z fanfiction if you looked hard enough.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:25 am

Doctor. wrote:Seeing as how the timeline shit affects even the multiverse, the Gods and Zeno, I don't think even the all-mighty Super DBs could do anything to fix it.

If the Super DBs affected other timelines, wouldn't it mean that they'd be destroyed in our timeline as well? Since Black wished for their destruction. Obviously they just affect the timeline they're in
I think they are strong enough to affect other timelines if the user wants them to, it's likely a case of just specifying the desire rather than making the wish and assuming Super Shenron will get their intent.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:26 am

precita wrote:Its hard to believe an arc that literally sounded like some 15 year olds fanfiction:

1. Evil Goku
2. Future Trunks returning
3. An evil Kai
4. Mai is back as Trunk's love interest
5. Vegito comes back as a new Super Saiyan
6. Multiple timelines going back and forth
7. Yajirobe surviving in a dead future
8. A whole universe/timeline being destroyed
9. Super Saiyan Rose

....turned out to be one of the best arcs of the show.

I'm sure you can find some of these concepts in the last 20 years of Dragonball Z fanfiction if you looked hard enough.
The Cell arc and Trunks' entire character already sounded like fanfiction, so this isn't exactly something new.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by ConfusedPhantom » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:04 pm

This arc genuinely surprised me, and honestly no more flawed than any of the story arcs in Z. I will say, though, had it been written in the original syndication of the manga, it'd...probably be the best arc. But, as it stands, it did it's job, it was entertaining.

When it was announced, the whole Goku Black thing didn't interest me. It sounded like the most generic thing of all time. But, actually, they did a lot of interesting things with it. Anti-climactic reveal aside (which is more of a directing issue than anything), the whole mystery surrounding him was really fun, and, again, it was awesome not knowing what's going on after years of knowing....what's going on. >>; Zamasu and Black are the first villain I genuinely wanted his smug, hypocritical face to get done in. What he does is truly despicable, and he has a pretty decent motive to what he does. And, well, that's different compared to the other villains, who are just evil for the sake of being evil. Not a bad thing, they're awesome villains. It's just awesome to have a villain like this in Dragon Ball, and a pretty great one too. To top it all off, the performances between Shin'ichirou Miki as Zamasu and ESPECIALLY Masako Nozawa as Black really sold it all. It'll be really hard to top. It had some great character development from Vegeta, Trunks and even Kid Trunks, as well.

Though, Toei seems to be really stuck writing Son Goku as Monkey D. Luffy. I don't hate Luffy, I'm a big fan. But, it's very distracting to have him react the same way as Luffy throughout Super. And, what's even more odd is that he didn't develop, especially since Toriyama did that for Battle of Gods. It's not terrible, though. Goku still has some nice moments in this arc as well. Though, Toei constantly using time travel for a way to pad for better animators to animate the fights made things a bit more complicated than it should have been. It was worth it though. Much of this arc looks very solid. Of course, there's still some pretty derpy looking episodes. But, it also led to some of the most fantastically animated fights, especially episode 66....which was literally the best episode Toei has ever produced for Dragon Ball.

That said, I wish the "asspulls" that Trunks kept doing was better explained in the plot. I'm fine with asspulls, especially since most of them in this arc have been pretty cool. But, a lot of them literally came out of nowhere with no hint of how he suddenly able to do those things, and I'd easily trade any of the Pilaf comic relief scenes for them. He pretty much solved everything by himself, despite Goku and Vegeta being there.
[spoiler]I will say though, I loved that he was the one to take out Zamasu's mortal body and not Goku and Vegeta. The retcon may piss Vegetto fans off, but it keeps this from being the Goku and Vegeta show. Plus, it's Trunks' arc. So, kinda have to.[/spoiler]

It also made Yajirobe do something. That's crazy. XD;

Overall, yeah, definitely the best Super got out so far. I thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish. I'm sure Toyotaro's manga will be much more consistent in the writing, but yeah I really liked this arc. Hope this isn't the last we see of Trunks. ....and when he comes back, I hope he takes it easy on the asspulls. XDDD;

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by thegamer23 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:17 pm

Best arc of Dragon Ball Super by MILES, still not perfect:

+ Everything about Goku Black, from voice acting to fight scenes. Was GOLD
+ Present Zamasu's descent into the dark side. Never we saw something similar in Dragon Ball previously
+ Trunks & Vegeta relationship
+ Plenty of amazing fight scenes, best in the serie.
+ Vegetto's brief return
+ Gowasu was a fun carachter. And it was sad to see him at the end, thinking about how he lost his apprentice.
+ The Universal Zamasu was CREPPY! That finale was unexpected
+ Suitomo's score was Amazing all Saga long
- A bit of confusion on the timelines
- The constant flee to the past with the Time Machine
- How they escaped Black & Zamasu the first time they fight them
- A bit rushed in parts, a bit slowed down in unnecessary ones. Wanted a longer final fight in particular


8.5/10
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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by Rozay » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:44 pm

In terms of emotions, this arc was a downright masterpiece. Trunks' and Zamasu's story and character development are some of the best of this entire series, with Vegeta right there, too. It had an impactful start, touching moments, exciting fights, big surprises and a cathartic finale.

From a logic standpoint though, it was problematic from the start. We were told this would get weird, and weird it got. Trunks' blue hair retcon was, in retrospect, a warning shot to kinda abandon reason. Which, you know, hard to do. Especially when logic is within sight. If they had a little more care in some of the bigger issues, this would have gone along almost flawlessly.

Some examples: to me, Trunks' power-ups and his quick learning were weird, since he never showed this much ability in Z. The time paradox was kind of a pain to understand and there are some instances where it's pretty much open to interpretation still. How Beerus and Whis knew Zamasu felt a little contrived. See, I can kinda make sense of this all in my head, they did throw in some tools for comprehension there. But the thing is, I (the viewer) had to fill in a lot of the blanks there, and considering DB's history of being very straightforward, this leads me to believe it was never their intention to be subtle, instead it leads us to believed they were either rushed or lazy to back up the things that were happening with a solid structure. The arc was inventive, complex for DB standards, and with many great callbacks to previous lore. But because of it's complexity, it should've had a little more care taken into carrying out the story.

Ultimately though, none of the plot inconsistencies took much away from MY enjoyment, because as I said, I felt the tools were there to fill in the blanks. So I was able to focus on the emotions, characters and fights of this story, and in that it delivered in spades. Trunks is, in many ways, Dragon Ball's best hero in a standard sense. I felt for him, his struggles, despair, stress, and admired both his values and his overcoming of both personal shortcomings and the obstacles thrown at him. Zamasu (and Black by extension) were novel concepts to the franchise from the start. He always felt different from every villain up until now, in design, character, and the carrying out of his strategy to great effect. Having a great hero and a great villain, the emotional result could only be good, even if the story has inconsistencies.

The fights also deserve a shout out, not only for their sheer awesomeness, but also because it had many departures from previous DB tropes, especially by going away a bit from the straightforwardness of "power trumps all" onto adding layers of strategy, technique and even luck. And also because, every time they had those group fights, it felt like war and struggle for life itself instead of always having elements of an honorable fight, present in previous arcs in the series, sometimes even in the most dire of situations. And those were great changes of pace.

I cannot possibly give this arc a perfect rating, it has too many possible and even unavoidable logic holes in it for me to do it. But I was compelled from start to finish, and that is a hard thing to happen for me in any piece of entertainment, especially as we consume more and more content everyday. I laughed, cried, felt tension, joy and overall felt thoroughly satisfied with how the main story played out. So to me, Zamasu's arc is a 9/10, and in overall DB, only Frieza's arc is decidedly superior. And seeing as Frieza is this series' villain king by a pretty large majority of the popular and critic opinion, that's saying something.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super FT Trunks arc - Your thoughts?!

Post by TheMikado » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:41 pm

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:The first two acts are fairly strong with a great mystery, one of the most entertaining bad guys we've gotten thus far and damn good fights.

The last act is horrendous beyond saving with every episode beating it's predecessor with the amount of ass pulls and bad writing.

In terms of quality I'd give it a 6/10 but in terms of how disappointed I am by the wasted potential? It beats out the ever loathsome Resurrection F for me.
You disliked the ending? Really? I know you hate the whole time travel nonsense, but besides that.
What it ultimately did to Trunks character is really painful. DB has always ultimately made the collective characters struggles not in vain even if individual characters get shafted. This was a tough one to swallow for a character who is the epitome of hope.

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