Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

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Shinomori
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Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Shinomori » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:50 pm

In my summation of Zamasu's story, it was just bad all the way around. When we got our first glimpse of him in the opening, many of us thought he might be a good guy who became bad. That some pivotal moment happened to him that caused him to go ballistic. (They had him falling with a look of despair on his face) However, when we actually saw him on screen, he was a total prick from the start. I didn't get the feeling he was ever good to begin with, which betrayed what the opening was trying to convey.

Now, concerning his goal of making the universe beautiful by getting rid of all non-god creatures, in the end it didn't make sense one bit. Why? All the flaws he accuse "mortals" of having, every last single god in the DB universe or universes have those same exact flaws, including his insanely hypocritical ###. We are even at the point where we are finding out these gods have family members much like mortals do. We already knew Beerus and Champa are brothers, and now we know the Grand Priest is Whis and Vados' father. To make things even more hypocritical for Zamasu, its possible that mortals who are strong enough, could possibly be elected by Zeno himself to become gods, or at least gods of destruction. (I believe Beerus once asked Goku and Vegeta if they are competing for his job of God of Destruction when they first arrived on his planet to receive training from Whis) So if a mortal can become a god, or at least can become a God of Destruction, who is he to look down on them and say they are nothing? Who is he to get on them for their flaws, when he and all the gods, including all the kaioshins, have those same flaws?

In my opinion, the character known as Zamasu is a big cluster fudge of a mess and is why I consider him the worst villain in Dragon Ball. Some of the other villains had simplistic goals, but they made sense. This guy's goals were completely dumb. What they should have done with Zamasu if he was going to have the goal of remaking the universe in his image, was have him actually be flawless. That's to say not let him show the same petty emotions all the characters in the show possess. Also, he didn't need to be someone's student, implying he needed to learn anything, but have him be a god who in his perfection, view the universe and the creatures in it as being a waste of talent. Have him create creatures that would inherit the new universe he would build. (We are told Kaioshins have the ability to create, however we are yet to see that in action) If you're going to criticize creation, let's see what you can create and view if its better. Put up or shut up!

So that's my rant on Zamasu.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:02 pm

Zamasu's character was purposely designed to be a full-on hypocrite. To him, the mortals shouldn't have existed and should've never gotten to the point where they decide to be insanely powerful or violent. Which was also why he killed other Gods since he deemed them to be incompetent "sinners" as was proven in Episode 55 of Super when he criticized Gowasu for simply being an observer of evil. The irony of this is the fact that his actions are literally no different from any "ningen" he deems to be evil such as the Barbarians.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:17 pm

You don't get it, Zamasu was this kind of Anakin Skywalker villains, yet more mystic and answering to none than himself lol

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Shinomori » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:22 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:Zamasu's character was purposely designed to be a full-on hypocrite. To him, the mortals shouldn't have existed and should've never gotten to the point where they decide to be insanely powerful or violent. Which was also why he killed other Gods since he deemed them to be incompetent "sinners" as was proven in Episode 55 of Super when he criticized Gowasu for simply being an observer of evil. The irony of this is the fact that his actions are literally no different from any "ningen" he deems to be evil such as the Barbarians.
In the end, his plan didn't seem to go anywhere. I think that's my biggest problem with this guy. I don't know if he simply wanted to be the only one in the universe, or if he wanted to re-create the universe. Plus it also seems he didn't even know who Zeno was because his plans are even dumber if he knew Zeno could come and blow him up at any second. Every other god knows who Zeno is and reveres him. It just makes Zamasu look like an even bigger idiot. Ultimately the overall story of this arc just doesn't make sense to me.
PsionicWarrior wrote:You don't get it, Zamasu was this kind of Anakin Skywalker villains, yet more mystic and answering to none than himself lol
Haha. I don't know. Just doesn't seem there was a lot of thought behind his story. Like I said, they should have had him flawless, and shown to have the ability to begin creating his own creatures so we have some idea about what he saw as a creature worthy of existence.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:31 pm

Shinomori wrote: Haha. I don't know. Just doesn't seem there was a lot of thought behind his story. Like I said, they should have had him flawless, and shown to have the ability to begin creating his own creatures so we have some idea about what he saw as a creature worthy of existence.
But that would have been atrociously generic don't you think lol
Zamasu's flaws and contradictions are what makes him interesting in the first place, and his last form representing his inner paradoxes perfectly depicted it lol
He even thought of him as the Messiah, taking up sins of mortals by absorbing one as holistic duty, come on there is so many great material in him how can you say he's crap lol

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by ryou766 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:32 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Shinomori wrote: Haha. I don't know. Just doesn't seem there was a lot of thought behind his story. Like I said, they should have had him flawless, and shown to have the ability to begin creating his own creatures so we have some idea about what he saw as a creature worthy of existence.
But that would have been atrociously generic don't you think lol
Zamasu's flaws and contradictions are what makes him interesting in the first place, and his last form representing his inner paradoxes perfectly depicted it lol
He even thought of him as the Messiah, taking up sins of mortals by absorbing one as holistic duty, come on there is so many great material in him how can you say he's crap lol
Does everything you post end with "lol"?

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:41 pm

Shinomori wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:Zamasu's character was purposely designed to be a full-on hypocrite. To him, the mortals shouldn't have existed and should've never gotten to the point where they decide to be insanely powerful or violent. Which was also why he killed other Gods since he deemed them to be incompetent "sinners" as was proven in Episode 55 of Super when he criticized Gowasu for simply being an observer of evil. The irony of this is the fact that his actions are literally no different from any "ningen" he deems to be evil such as the Barbarians.
In the end, his plan didn't seem to go anywhere. I think that's my biggest problem with this guy. I don't know if he simply wanted to be the only one in the universe, or if he wanted to re-create the universe. Plus it also seems he didn't even know who Zeno was because his plans are even dumber if he knew Zeno could come and blow him up at any second. Every other god knows who Zeno is and reveres him. It just makes Zamasu look like an even bigger idiot. Ultimately the overall story of this arc just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't even think that Zamasu even knows who Zen'o is considering what Zamasu said about himself being the only god around. Zamasu actually wanted to be the only power in the universe and re-creating the universe in his own vision. I do think that the plan did leave quite an impact considering almost all mortals are gone and Zamasu's defeat took the omnipotent king himself to destroy the multiverse along with Zamasu.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Shinomori » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:50 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Shinomori wrote: Haha. I don't know. Just doesn't seem there was a lot of thought behind his story. Like I said, they should have had him flawless, and shown to have the ability to begin creating his own creatures so we have some idea about what he saw as a creature worthy of existence.
But that would have been atrociously generic don't you think lol
Zamasu's flaws and contradictions are what makes him interesting in the first place, and his last form representing his inner paradoxes perfectly depicted it lol
He even thought of him as the Messiah, taking up sins of mortals by absorbing one as holistic duty, come on there is so many great material in him how can you say he's crap lol
I don't think it would have been generic, but Zamasu as he is presented has a lot of problems concerning his plans. He simply wasn't better nor different than those he criticized. Not even a little bit. Now concerning the ending with his plan, I do believe things worked out a million times better than he planned. After being sliced in half and losing his physical body, he became one with the universe. As crazy as his plan was and how little thought there was behind it, becoming the universe itself was amazing. It worked out even though his goal didn't make sense. I guess in the end, I'm looking to see if there is anything redeemable about Zamasu. Is he a sympathetic villain? If that is what the story is wanting to convey to us, I think it failed miserably.
Freeza9000 wrote:
Shinomori wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:Zamasu's character was purposely designed to be a full-on hypocrite. To him, the mortals shouldn't have existed and should've never gotten to the point where they decide to be insanely powerful or violent. Which was also why he killed other Gods since he deemed them to be incompetent "sinners" as was proven in Episode 55 of Super when he criticized Gowasu for simply being an observer of evil. The irony of this is the fact that his actions are literally no different from any "ningen" he deems to be evil such as the Barbarians.
In the end, his plan didn't seem to go anywhere. I think that's my biggest problem with this guy. I don't know if he simply wanted to be the only one in the universe, or if he wanted to re-create the universe. Plus it also seems he didn't even know who Zeno was because his plans are even dumber if he knew Zeno could come and blow him up at any second. Every other god knows who Zeno is and reveres him. It just makes Zamasu look like an even bigger idiot. Ultimately the overall story of this arc just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't even think that Zamasu even knows who Zen'o is considering what Zamasu said about himself being the only god around. Zamasu actually wanted to be the only power in the universe and re-creating the universe in his own vision. I do think that the plan did leave quite an impact considering almost all mortals are gone and Zamasu's defeat took the omnipotent king himself to destroy the multiverse along with Zamasu.
Yep, you're right. It seemed like Zamasu should have known about Zeno's existence. I think that is weird he didn't know of him. Yet in the end, things did work out for him before Zeno showed up. Much better than what he actually planned. :lol:

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:52 pm

He's got a backstory of resentment towards mortals and hypocrisy. His "noble goals" were simply the stepping stone for him to fall into darkness.

Maybe the writers should have played on the fallen angel element a bit more, but he was too far gone for that to really make any impact on him.
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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:54 pm

Shinomori wrote:I guess in the end, I'm looking to see if there is anything redeemable about Zamasu. Is he a sympathetic villain? If that is what the story is wanting to convey to us, I think it failed miserably.
But that's the thing, I don't think he ever was nor that the story tried to convey that to us lol
He just kept revealing himself as the show went on and started to take action once he fully realized, to him, Kaoishins were sinners lol

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:06 pm

If I'm not mistaken, Zamasu references Zeno in one of the manga chapters. Or perhaps it's Gowasu to him.
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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Cipher » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:44 pm

Zamasu is just an evil sadist. As with Baby, dressing his motivations up with "justice" is just talk.

To the series' credit, I don't think it ever pretends otherwise. No one gives his philosophy the time of day. Pretty much everyone, Gowasu included, once he learns of Zamasu's plans, is like, "Yeah, this guy sucks."

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:52 pm

Well Zamasu's point was that he was an elite that felt like his people were suckers.
Basically he was envious (and right at some points) that ningens get always so many "get out of jail cards".
However, what kept him sane till now was the fact that ningen were weaklings.
"Yeah we excuse their fuckups but we are stronger and smarter. Petty man-animals!!! When you were learning to spell your name, we were raised to conquer galaxies!!!"<-let's see who gets that.
The point he "broke" was when he saw a petty ningen using the power of Gods.
It's like "wow wow wait. We treat you like kids and now you have the power to stand next to us and even surpass us? WHAT!!!!" he felt like his kind was treated unfair.
Gods according to Zamasu should be worshiped not surpassed.

I am not blaming Gowasu for not spotting this since Zamasu basically "changed" when he saw that Beerusdiepie tournament video. Till then he was a good guy.
He was seeking respect but with the wrong attitude+ways.

I hoped that there was a version of him that was noble and understood the mistakes of his ways and I hope that if we see Future Trunks again Zamasu will be one of his allies.

Indeed a great character
Last edited by Mazingerdestro on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by DragonHermit » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:55 pm

"Zamasu" wasn't the main villain though.

There is a difference between Zamasu and Black. This is clearly shown when Black doesn't wish for immortality. Their difference is a bit like Piccolo and the Demon King.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:56 pm

I think some people are not having a proper grasp of Zamasu's goals or motive. While he was shown to be a Kaioshin man who cares for the development and prosperity of the universe, Zamasu often questioned the worth of mortals and didn't in their ability to handle conflict as they were prone to commence war in a repeated cycle. And given the events that transpired in the main story, he has a valid point. The Kaioshin of Universe 7 stood by and watch Freeza terrorise most of the galaxy for God knows how long before Goku and Future Trunks took care of him. It's made even worse by the fact the Kaioshin were strong enough to defeat Freeza with one blow, but they still stood by and did nothing. Then you take into consideration that the events of the Android/Cell arc and the Majin Boo arc happened on purely through the arrogance and selfishness of the main cast. He also did not agree with how the Kaioshin would not be more directly involved in mortals' actions like the Gods of Destruction. Even in the manga, his scoffs at the idea that mortals can be trusted to handle important matters, let alone rival the might of gods.

The moment with him him and Gowasu travelling to the Babarians world was huge turning point in his character. Because if he ever needed more fuel to add to his argument of how mortals, that was it. Zamasu claimed that they should destroy the planet because they will never learn to be civilised, to which Gowasu is shocked by this response and in an attempt to prove him wrong, Gowasu and Zamasu travel 1000 years to the future, only to find out that the civilisation has not advanced from the small culture it originally was, and the race as whole still remained hostile, angry and aggressive race, as the same two of the Babarians are seen fighting. And just to add the cherry on top, one of the Babarians tries to attack Zamasu and Gowasu at first glance.

Meeting Goku was where his character officially went off the deep end. After meeting Goku however and losing to him quickly in a sparring match, his views radically changed and his distrustful nature towards mortals only grew. Annoyed at Goku's carefree attitude and lack of respect, his distaste for the gods not quelling the dangerous nature of mortals evolved to a radicalism-level. Shocked at how a mortal like Goku could gain a power rivalling gods, let alone even obtaining such power, and so recklessly challenge a God and defeat him easily, Zamasu came to sternly believe that mortal life by nature is an evil.

Goku Black and Future Zamasu is the embodiment of Zamasu basically giving into the his dark side and goes through with his plan to be a more active Kaioshin and try set right what he thinks has been done wrong by other Kiaoshin standing back and letting mortal create all kinds of havoc. He is extremely sadistic, as well as savage in battle and also relishes the opportunity to test his new power or abilities, but also shown to be very pragmatic is his way of achieving his Zero Mortals Plan. And never wastes an opportunity to display his superiority complex and his plan to create a utopia by eliminating all mortals.

Merged Zamasu is basically the accumulation of all the arrogance and self-entitlement of Goku Black and Future Zamasu. He literally sees himself as the embodiment of justice and having delusions of grandeur. His belief that he is truly this supreme God of justice that will create an new utopia for the universe even drive him to tear, and his feeling of responsibility to set everything right that he thinks is wrong overwhelms him emotionally. Of course, once Vegetto and later Future Trunks prove to be too much of a match for him, Merged Zamasu is reduced to enraged screaming and furious declarations of Godhood, ironically becoming just as destructive and violent as the mortals he wishes to exterminate.

Then even in his death, his immortal soul and conscious spread across the world, the universe and even throughout timelines. Showing that even with no physically body to carry out his deeds, his spiritual body still feels compelled to become one with order and justice.

In short, Zamasu is an awesome villain. He is a fantastically written character, with many layers to him and his the better written character the franchise has ever produced.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by DragonHermit » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:56 pm

"Zamasu" wasn't the main villain though.

There is a difference between Zamasu and Black. This is clearly shown when Black doesn't wish for immortality. Their difference is a bit like Piccolo and the Demon King.

Once in Goku's body, his character changed. He still held the same view, but he appreciated that power more.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:13 pm

DragonHermit wrote:"Zamasu" wasn't the main villain though.

There is a difference between Zamasu and Black. This is clearly shown when Black doesn't wish for immortality. Their difference is a bit like Piccolo and the Demon King.

Once in Goku's body, his character changed. He still held the same view, but he appreciated that power more.
Zamasu was always the main villain.
Black-Zamasu future-Zamasu past are the same character from different time periods.
No he never had a change of character. He always didn't care for ningens. He respected his master but as Gowasu has stated, his heart wasn't pure or ready to become a Kaioshin due to his strong feelings. When Zamasu and Black hugged in the future we basically got our confirmation that Zamasu is a scumbag. He saw his master dying and instead of going mad, he hugged the killer. If madhouse had directed this episode, Black's hands would be red with blood and Zamasu would hug him while laughing like Light Yagami and saying stuff like "Justice and Kami-respect!!!"

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Faisal Shourov » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:16 pm

DragonHermit wrote:"Zamasu" wasn't the main villain though.

There is a difference between Zamasu and Black. This is clearly shown when Black doesn't wish for immortality. Their difference is a bit like Piccolo and the Demon King.

Once in Goku's body, his character changed. He still held the same view, but he appreciated that power more.
There is no difference between Zamasu and Black. Black IS Zamasu. Having Goku's body doesn't make Black a different character.
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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by DragonHermit » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:23 pm

There is definitely a difference between Black and Zamasu.

Black is a Gokufied Zamasu. He picked up a lot of little quirks of Goku, once he took his body. (Remember the future Zamasu didn't encounter Goku)

Zamasu wanted immortality, Black didn't want it. He was sated by the power. Like Goku, he didn't show his full power in the beginning when facing Goku. They both hated humans, but Black led a more hedonistic existence.

Black found a bit of joy in the world of mortals, in his own perverse way. Zamasu straight up wanted to annihilate everything.

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Re: Zamasu's Goals and Backstory = Crap

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:13 pm

So you misjudged Zamasu from an OP and are now mad? It's an OP dude and regardless it still works. Zamasu was chosen to be a Kaioshin so his fall from grace still works. Sure he may have had evil intentions or not rightly good from the start but he went ahead with the actions that is the difference.

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