Should Super be canon in your mind?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ChiefWamsutta
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Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:18 pm

Do you think Dragon Ball Super deserves to be considered the canon series following DBZ?

Can its animation problems, poor scheduling, disconnected arcs, lack of character use, and God Ki confusion be forgotten?

Would you prefer segments of it be canon and not all of it?

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by sintzu » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:41 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:Do you think Dragon Ball Super deserves to be considered the canon series following DBZ?

Can its animation problems, poor scheduling, disconnected arcs, lack of character use, and God Ki confusion be forgotten?

Would you prefer segments of it be canon and not all of it?
Super has a lot of good, a lot of bad and it's still on going so either could get more or less so I can't say for sure until it's over.

I'll always consider the BOG movie canon to the manga's story.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Boo Machine » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:44 pm

Everyone is obviously going to have different personal requirements for what's canon. So it will be interesting to see how or why others consider it canon or not.

I have no problems considering it canon at this point in time. There just isn't any reason why I shouldn't. There is plenty that bugs me about Super but nothing has really offended me.

I think it helps that it takes place in this 10 year time gap before the EoZ. I just kind of see it as extra dragonball stories or "Add-on" dragonball if that makes sense.

Though I suppose it doesn't really matter if I consider it canon or not because either way it's going to do what ever it's going to do. If it's enjoyable then, Awesome. If it sucks then, Oh well.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by precita » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:58 pm

Its written to be canon, its an official sequel to DBZ, Akira Toriyama outlines the plots and what direction it takes, so yes its canon.

I mean, what are people expecting? We've seen a show where Toei went in their own direction (GT) and now we have a show where the creator contributes. Of course its canon.

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by sintzu » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:00 am

precita wrote:Its written to be canon, its an official sequel to DBZ, Akira Toriyama outlines the plots and what direction it takes, so yes its canon.
It is officially but the question is, is it to you ?
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:55 am

precita wrote:Its written to be canon, its an official sequel to DBZ, Akira Toriyama outlines the plots and what direction it takes, so yes its canon.

I mean, what are people expecting? We've seen a show where Toei went in their own direction (GT) and now we have a show where the creator contributes. Of course its canon.
That's not what the the question was asking. My point was should it be canon in your mind and your opinion based on its incredible number of faults.

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Cipher » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:35 am

The only thing that is canon in my mind is the FUNimation dub of Lord Slug.

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:27 am

Well...
In my mind super is canon..
What isn't canon is trunks's spirit sword.
My Canon is trunks stabs zamasu from behind when zamasu is going to kill Vegeta after they defused..
Zamasu's body is unstable so he is not healing fast..
Then it goes as it went but zamasu doesn't cover the universe because his body is destroyed, he does it on his free will as this body no longer holds him...

That is my Canon and will be..
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Cetra » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:11 am

Ki Breaker wrote:Well...
In my mind super is canon..
What isn't canon is trunks's spirit sword.
My Canon is trunks stabs zamasu from behind when zamasu is going to kill Vegeta after they defused..
Zamasu's body is unstable so he is not healing fast..
Then it goes as it went but zamasu doesn't cover the universe because his body is destroyed, he does it on his free will as this body no longer holds him...

That is my Canon and will be..
The show never said that he did not do it on his free will after losing his shell.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Yomi » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:26 am

Ki Breaker wrote:Well...
In my mind super is canon..
What isn't canon is trunks's spirit sword.
My Canon is trunks stabs zamasu from behind when zamasu is going to kill Vegeta after they defused..
Zamasu's body is unstable so he is not healing fast..
Then it goes as it went but zamasu doesn't cover the universe because his body is destroyed, he does it on his free will as this body no longer holds him...

That is my Canon and will be..
This attitude seems immature and filled with denial.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:58 am

Cetra wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Well...
In my mind super is canon..
What isn't canon is trunks's spirit sword.
My Canon is trunks stabs zamasu from behind when zamasu is going to kill Vegeta after they defused..
Zamasu's body is unstable so he is not healing fast..
Then it goes as it went but zamasu doesn't cover the universe because his body is destroyed, he does it on his free will as this body no longer holds him...

That is my Canon and will be..
The show never said that he did not do it on his free will after losing his shell.
Ya it didn't, it just made sense that after the body is destroyed zamasu had no other choice than to do That.. you see what I was trying to say? I couldn't really explain it too well..
Was in a hurry :D
If that's what the show meant too then awesome! My Canon is really canon 8) :lol:
Yomi wrote: This attitude seems immature and filled with denial.
Jeez I am sorry I am not mature enough for ya, but guess what?
I wasn't trying to be either, it's a fast post with not much thought put behind framing of words..

Try remembering you are discussing an individuals opinion on his canon next time you give some stranger life advises sir.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by mabalia » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:51 am

I like the ideas behind each arcs DBS has showed us, what I didn't like was their execution it should've been better in that regard. Goku's characterization is the worst portrayal I've seen of him from the series, he's not like manga Goku nor like dbz anime Goku, they regressed his character to remind us of that kid Goku isolated in a forest, alienated of how society works and what human culture is.
And I don't blame this only on Toei, I think Toriyama is also responsable for this revisited Goku who's different to how he wrote him in the past, if we take toriyama's recent interviews in consideration. And it's hard to take his opinion that serious nowadays when he always excuse himself saying he forgets things, characters from his own manga (I try to analyze what he says in his interviews, if a new information don't contradict his manga I accept it, if contradicts I ignore).
So I accept the events of super during the 10 years as canon, not exactly in the way it was done but knowing BOG, Freeza, Champa tournament and Zamasu happened at that time.

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by ssjjanemba » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:44 am

As long as Akira is involved in the writing then it should be canon. Akira can always in the future write another Dragon Ball story and retcon DBS.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:47 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:Do you think Dragon Ball Super deserves to be considered the canon series following DBZ?

Can its animation problems, poor scheduling, disconnected arcs, lack of character use, and God Ki confusion be forgotten?

Would you prefer segments of it be canon and not all of it?
It does not matter if it deserves it or not, IT IS CANON.
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Nano » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:34 pm

No.

BoG was a direct continuation IMO and opened the door for the whole Gods concept/hierarchy and the multiverse. After that it just went down hill and fast.

Way too many contradictions, inconsistencies, and absurd character designs.

I honestly like GT better.
I love Dragon Ball so much that I'm constantly complaining about how horrible Super is.

Black Goku / Future Trunks saga... was/is garbage.

Top 5 Favorite DBS Characters = Beerus, Whis, still waiting on the last 3 lol...

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Ssenrof » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:12 pm

mabalia wrote:I like the ideas behind each arcs DBS has showed us, what I didn't like was their execution it should've been better in that regard. Goku's characterization is the worst portrayal I've seen of him from the series, he's not like manga Goku nor like dbz anime Goku, they regressed his character to remind us of that kid Goku isolated in a forest, alienated of how society works and what human culture is.
And I don't blame this only on Toei, I think Toriyama is also responsable for this revisited Goku who's different to how he wrote him in the past, if we take toriyama's recent interviews in consideration. And it's hard to take his opinion that serious nowadays when he always excuse himself saying he forgets things, characters from his own manga (I try to analyze what he says in his interviews, if a new information don't contradict his manga I accept it, if contradicts I ignore).
So I accept the events of super during the 10 years as canon, not exactly in the way it was done but knowing BOG, Freeza, Champa tournament and Zamasu happened at that time.

It's interesting that GT had Goku turn into a child, but keep his adult mind ( more or less) and Super has Goku keep his adult body but revert to a child's mentality.


Toriyama is like the case study on how content creators don't automatically know more about their own series than the fans.

Has any fan you ever met confused SS2 for SS3? Even the most casual of fans don't make that mistake. His power comparison for the BoG movies, his statement about Goku not using SS2 or SS3 anymore- it's all crap. Take his staments with a massive grain of salt.

As for cannon, it really depends on how it fits into the 10 year time skip. If super retcons the original ending, I'd probably still consider the original ending to be cannon in my heart.

If Super somehow fits into the original continuity- then I'll take it.

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:32 pm

ShadowBardock89 wrote: It does not matter if it deserves it or not, IT IS CANON.
Wow! Okay, you need to take a breath. There is no need to be yelling a response to me in all caps, bold, underlined, etc.

Take a step back from an absolutist viewpoint. I know it is canon. I like that it is canon. I am happy that it is canon. But does it deserve to be canon and hold the Dragon Ball name?

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:26 pm

It deserves to be canon just as much as GT does. It doesn't at all. Too many retcons is my main problem with calling them "canon".
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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by Fizzer » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:32 pm

I consider all of Super's world-building to be canon. Gods of destruction, Super Dragon Balls, 12 universes, Omniking, Zamasu - all of this stuff is real and the events of Super did happen, but just not exactly in the way portrayed by either the anime or the manga. These two sources are interpretations that give us insight into what went on, but neither translates line-for-line into the "canon" of events experienced by the characters.

Edit: I should say the same goes for Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. By looking at these movies, the manga, and the anime, we can piece together a broad "canon" of Super. Kind of like the four gospels, I guess :P

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Re: Should Super be canon in your mind?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:41 pm

Yes.
Anyway what I believe doesn't matter, what's canonical is not a matter of opinions.

I'm very tired of people that try to find other detractors using fake logical discussions.
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