Should Super be canon in your mind?

[ChiefWamsutta]

You guys don't get to choose what's canon. Toei and Toriyama consider it canon, so its canon whether you like the show or not.

Hold up there. No need to sound hostile. This is a hypothetical question where the commenters are in charge of Toei and are Toriyama's adviser. Obviously none of us get to choose what is canon, so what you said shows that you're missing the entire premise of my thread. That's not our doing.

[Thanos6]

Everyone gets to choose their own canon, not just for DB/Z/GT/S but for anything. You can be a fan of a book series but choose to omit a novel you don't like. You can enjoy a comic series but omit an issue or storyarc you can't stand.

All canon is personal.

[precita]

Toriyama's word is the word of God for this series. Even if you hate Super, it is canon if the creator considers it. This is not a spinoff material without him like GT or the movies.

[Akyon]

Everyone gets to choose their own canon, not just for DB/Z/GT/S but for anything. You can be a fan of a book series but choose to omit a novel you don't like. You can enjoy a comic series but omit an issue or storyarc you can't stand.

All canon is personal.

Err...No, you really can't though. Because it causes major issues;

Personally I dislike the Skypeia arc of One Piece, but love the rest of the story. If I choose to ignore that arc and pretend it doesn't exist, apart from being factually wrong, things that later on that have had a knock on effect from Skypeia suddenly don't make a lick of sense and the story becomes a jumbled confused mess. Where did the gold to fix Merry come from? Why IS Merry needing fixing in the first place? Where did Usopp's dials suddenly spring from? One of Luffy's major rivals comes from a sky island...what is a Sky Island? Suddenly the importance of a certain element becomes clear.

For a more Dragonball example; If I decide I didn't like the Android Arc for example then suddenly we're left wondering where the hell Krillin's wife came from and why is she so insanely strong, why is Goku dead at the start of this arc, why is Gohan able to go SSJ and beyond even that, why did Vegeta randomly hook up with Bulma and have a kid, etc
Do I then have to pretend the Buu arc never happens as well, and the enitrity of Super?

How do you fill in the holes your pick and mix version of canon opens up?

You can dislike an arc, you can hate a certain element, but that is still canon if the author says it is. Especially if it effects later storylines.

[TekTheNinja]

Everyone gets to choose their own canon, not just for DB/Z/GT/S but for anything. You can be a fan of a book series but choose to omit a novel you don't like. You can enjoy a comic series but omit an issue or storyarc you can't stand.

All canon is personal.

Err...No, you really can't though. Because it causes major issues;

Personally I dislike the Skypeia arc of One Piece, but love the rest of the story. If I choose to ignore that arc and pretend it doesn't exist, apart from being factually wrong, things that later on that have had a knock on effect from Skypeia suddenly don't make a lick of sense and the story becomes a jumbled confused mess. Where did the gold to fix Merry come from? Why IS Merry needing fixing in the first place? Where did Usopp's dials suddenly spring from? One of Luffy's major rivals comes from a sky island...what is a Sky Island? Suddenly the importance of a certain element becomes clear.

For a more Dragonball example; If I decide I didn't like the Android Arc for example then suddenly we're left wondering where the hell Krillin's wife came from and why is she so insanely strong, why is Goku dead at the start of this arc, why is Gohan able to go SSJ and beyond even that, why did Vegeta randomly hook up with Bulma and have a kid, etc
Do I then have to pretend the Buu arc never happens as well, and the enitrity of Super?

How do you fill in the holes your pick and mix version of canon opens up?

You can dislike an arc, you can hate a certain element, but that is still canon if the author says it is. Especially if it effects later storylines.

That's comepletely different. Considering the original manga/anime run and nothing else canon causes no issues like that. You're talking about taking an arc in the middle of a series and not considering it canon, which yes, causes problems in the logic of the show.

[Miracles]

You guys don't get to choose what's canon. Toei and Toriyama consider it canon, so its canon whether you like the show or not.

Telling the truth, like a boss.
It's real, Only Toriyama decides what is canon.

[TekTheNinja]

You guys don't get to choose what's canon. Toei and Toriyama consider it canon, so its canon whether you like the show or not.

Telling the truth, like a boss.
It's real, Only Toriyama decides what is canon.

Sorta bein' a bunch of killjoys. There's nothing wrong with having your own canon. As an example, I personally like to think of the Star Wars prequels as non-canon and count the Clone Wars series as the canon version, even though they're both supposed to be canon. I enjoy looking at it that way, and if you don't, then good for you but that shouldn't change your enjoyment of anything, so let me see it how I wanna see it. It ain't hurting anyone.

[Akyon]

Question though; how does something not being that good in your opinion stop it being canon?

You can dislike canon material, but it's still canon. You can prefer non canon material but it won't make it canon. What's the issue with accepting reality but liking what you like or realising that not every aspect of a series is perfect?

By all means like what you like, you're totally entitled to decide what you do or don't like, but that's preference, not canon.

[TekTheNinja]

Question though; how does something not being that good in your opinion stop it being canon?

You can dislike canon material, but it's still canon. You can prefer non canon material but it won't make it canon. What's the issue with accepting reality but liking what you like or realising that not every aspect of a series is perfect?

By all means like what you like, you're totally entitled to decide what you do or don't like, but that's preference, not canon.

Good point, but it's sorta just a matter of in your mind preferring a certain ending and considering the rest a side story, similar to GT. I wouldn't say that's too far fetched either.

[DHM211]

I consider episode 28 and onward of it canon(not including episode 69).

[kinisking]

I wish I could consider it non-canon but according to my beliefs it is.

[Thanos6]

How many Marvel Comics fans decided that Spider-Man stopped before his marriage-canceling deal with Mephisto? Marvel can say whatever they like, but to many fans, that's not their canon.

How many Star Wars fans decided that they preferred the original Expanded Universe to the new unified universe that began with The Force Awakens? LucasFilms can say whatever they like, but to many fans, that's not their canon.

This is entertainment, and each individual viewer/reader should go along with whatever view provides them the most enjoyment. If you like GT or Super, consider them canon. I'm glad you enjoy them. For me, I can't stand them, and thus, I jettison them from my canon.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Toriyama is one person calling something canon. We are each one person and can call something canon if we like. It's Toriyama's voice or my voice.

The only difference is that he is the author. We here at this website have done a lot for Dragon Ball just like Toriyama has since the turn of the Millennium. Our voice has weight to it too. Whatever though, I don't really care if some people here think in absolutes.

[Kanassa]

It's cannon. So, I think of it as Canon. Quality doesn't effect that; no matter how good or bad. Or should I consider Cooler and Xenovers Canon now?

[Cetra]

Toriyama is one person calling something canon. We are each one person and can call something canon if we like. It's Toriyama's voice or my voice.

The only difference is that he is the author. We here at this website have done a lot for Dragon Ball just like Toriyama has since the turn of the Millennium. Our voice has weight to it too. Whatever though, I don't really care if some people here think in absolutes.

Our voice has no weight when it comes to authority and official truth. If there is something in Dragon Ball and jokester368 says "NO; THAT CAN'T BE, that is not how it was!!!! I interpreted the story like that! that is true this way!!!" it means nothing for Dragon Ball.

[Abra kadabra]

If Toriyama wants it to be Canon, it deserves to be canon. Other opinions regarding this matter hold no weight and read like entitlement

[Kaboom]

You guys don't get to choose what's canon. Toei and Toriyama consider it canon, so its canon whether you like the show or not.

Except no such thing has been declared. Certain things are said to be "continuations" of other things or just "side-stories," but all-in-all a single, central canon for Dragon Ball has not been officially defined. Neither Toriyama nor anyone else in charge has come out and said, "only THESE certain things count as part of Dragon Ball, and anything else is just fluff." That would actually be establishing a canon, but it hasn't happened yet.

So for the time being... yes, "canon" for DB is very much in the eye of the beholder. If someone believes Super is sloppily-written, contradictory garbage (*raises hand*), then they don't have to consider it a sole continuation or part of anything else.

[DBZ Macky]

So for the time being... yes, "canon" for DB is very much in the eye of the beholder. If someone believes Super is sloppily-written, contradictory garbage (*raises hand*), then they don't have to consider it a sole continuation or part of anything else.

What parts of Super did you find sloppily-written and contradictory "garbage"?
Honestly, I agree with most of your posts but I'd say you're being a bit too harsh on Super.

I think the Boo Arc was more sloppily written than any of the new material from Super.
Be it "Powar Levul" inconsistencies or just last moment changes that completely disrupt the momentum of the story.

Now that Mr. Toriyama actually has enough time to tell his own story the way he wants to, without having to change the actual Androids to actually be #18 and #17 instead of #19 and #20, you find it to be "garbage"?

Mr. Toriyama said that he felt as if Battle of Gods was the continuation of his Manga, I see no reason to treat it as Non-Canon. Now whether you want to debate on which version of BoG is canon is an entirely different matter.

[TekTheNinja]

Or should I consider Cooler and Xenovers Canon now?

If you want to, yes. Plenty of people do.

[FireFly]

Toriyama has said on record that he considers whatever the final chapter of Super would be to be the final chapter of his own story, so it's more or less some form of diluted canon to me. On the other hand, he's borrowed the character Bardock from the TV special but portrayed him differently in Minus, showing that even if he designs something and approves of the product Toei makes independently he will do his own show differently. So... yeah, there's no clearly defined canon that's set in stone live on a soapbox, but there's something close and Toriyama doesn't denounce Super enough to keep it out of it.

I don't like Super, but it is what it is.