For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Paper Lung » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:09 pm

Other than few notable planets like Namek, Vegeta, and Yardrat, there really hasn't been much exposition given to U7 outside of the God hierarchy. Shouldn't a race like Botamo's exist somewhere? What about Maggeta's? Hit's? The universe is enormous, so big that us humans can't even comprehend it, and yet Master Roshi was chosen to fight? Really...? Nobody else? They're all from Earth, actually. Oh well.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:10 pm

I agree, it feels like Dragon Ball has barely scratched the surface when it comes to world building, like exploring various planets, meeting other races, or just outright space exploring. That's the direction I wanted Toriyama to take Dragon Ball after the Cell arc, everything being confined to Earth is kinda boring. At first, I thought we were going to get that in Super, but now I'm not so sure. Hopefully we get space exploration arc soon in like Universe 8 or 10, forget Universe 7, that boat has sailed.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Nano » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:33 pm

Just goes to show how horrible Super is.

M. Roshi as a contestant? Lol he stopped being a major player during DB, had zero play in DBZ, and now he's back as one of the strongest in the universe in DBS.

Smh I'm starting to believe Super is just a money grab.
I love Dragon Ball so much that I'm constantly complaining about how horrible Super is.

Black Goku / Future Trunks saga... was/is garbage.

Top 5 Favorite DBS Characters = Beerus, Whis, still waiting on the last 3 lol...

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Boo Machine » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:01 am

Nano wrote:Just goes to show how horrible Super is.

M. Roshi as a contestant? Lol he stopped being a major player during DB, had zero play in DBZ, and now he's back as one of the strongest in the universe in DBS.

Smh I'm starting to believe Super is just a money grab.

To be fair DBZ barely made any attempts to explore the universe either. Right after namek every threat took place on earth. If you want to give GT credit for anything, at least it tried far more than any other series to have a space adventure. It's why I could never really bring myself to hate the search for the Black star Dragonablls despite it being pretty boring for the most part.

Also Of course super a money grab. Dragonball in general is a money grab. Has been for decades. Not sure why Super was supposed to be any different.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Xeztin » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:20 am

Boo Machine wrote:
Nano wrote:Just goes to show how horrible Super is.

M. Roshi as a contestant? Lol he stopped being a major player during DB, had zero play in DBZ, and now he's back as one of the strongest in the universe in DBS.

Smh I'm starting to believe Super is just a money grab.

To be fair DBZ barely made any attempts to explore the universe either. Right after namek every threat took place on earth. If you want to give GT credit for anything, at least it tried far more than any other series to have a space adventure. It's why I could never really bring myself to hate the search for the Black star Dragonablls despite it being pretty boring for the most part.

Also Of course super a money grab. Dragonball in general is a money grab. Has been for decades. Not sure why Super was supposed to be any different.
Visiting the planet with General Rilldo was pretty fun.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Boo Machine » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:34 am

Xeztin wrote: Visiting the planet with General Rilldo was pretty fun.
That's one of the parts I actually really enjoyed. The fight with Rilldo wasn't half bad and I thought Goku was pretty cool in it.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Nekis13 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:52 am

Nano wrote:
M. Roshi as a contestant? Lol he stopped being a major player during DB, had zero play in DBZ, and now he's back as one of the strongest in the universe in DBS.
Who said he's one of the strongest in the universe? He could be part of the team for whatever reason.

Hell, who even IS the strongest of Universe 7 without counting Beerus? We don't even for sure if there's someone out there in U7 that can be stronger than Goku.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:22 am

I only really care about the different races and characters, not where they come. There is nothing important to explore in Universe 7. One Planet I do not want to go to is Planet Sadal simply because we need no more Saiyans and we know they are good and Cabba is the only Super Saiyan. Meeting the king is something they don't need to do really

We need to find out about Frost, Hit, Botamo and Magetta. Even though their Planets probably exist in Universe 7 there is no need to go to them as the cast is connected to them in Universe 6. We also need to know about Universe 6's earth and why it got destroyed and who caused it. We also need to know about Universe 6's Namek.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by sintzu » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:58 am

I wish DB's world building was like One Piece where we'd get a massive developed world with countless characters.

It has the potential but for some reason Toriyama never did much with it and doesn't seem interested in doing so even now.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Muffin Man » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:25 pm

This is why I loved GT so much more as a concept than Super. A universe-building space exploration quest that leads directly into an arc involving an alien parasite who turns our heroes' own strength against themselves, which in turn leads to the dragon balls being used again but oh snap now they've gone and used the dragon balls one time too many and now they have to deal with the consequences....it's just a perfect direction to go in compared to randomly introducing a bunch of new universes that may as well be part of the original universe and that are hardly explored in favor of a returning old villain, a tournament, an evil Kaioshin in Goku's body in Future Trunks' timeline, and another tournament.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:16 pm

We know freeza was strongest mortal being in the universe, majin buu was there since when universe started, berrus is god of destruction and strongest god in our universe..
Now if they go and explore planet xyz, what good will it do? There is no tension, they beat everyone who were strongest in our universe anyway, will a viewer even enjoy seeing god goku vs tao pai pai level battles in random planets?
I would find it a waste of time amd utterly pointless..

That is the reason it's a brilliant idea they introduced other universes, we don't know about any being's positions there, who is strong, who is the god, is there any evil we know nothing.. and that is what is interesting to a viewer..
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by ChaosLordBrandon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:38 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:We know freeza was strongest mortal being in the universe, majin buu was there since when universe started, berrus is god of destruction and strongest god in our universe..
Now if they go and explore planet xyz, what good will it do? There is no tension, they beat everyone who were strongest in our universe anyway, will a viewer even enjoy seeing god goku vs tao pai pai level battles in random planets?
I would find it a waste of time amd utterly pointless..

That is the reason it's a brilliant idea they introduced other universes, we don't know about any being's positions there, who is strong, who is the god, is there any evil we know nothing.. and that is what is interesting to a viewer..
This. Do people forget we already defeated the strongest mortals of universe 7 back in the Freeza arc? Dabura is a demon,Beerus is a god,Buu is a magical beast and the Androids are creations.

You guys want them to introduce a bunch characters in u7 that were never mentioned anywhere and create a bunch of plot holes and retcons?

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by THEGOKU » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:44 pm

So GT? Cause that is exactly what it sounds like to me when I hear this stuff. It appears that GT tried that and it didn't go over well. Granted it's the way it's all presented but I think world building is easier said then done and something that has to be fleshed out by the actual creator. If it is left to others things can get too crazy or go unexplained.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:07 pm

Dragon Ball is crap at world building.

Toei are somewhat guilty on their part for this for this, but really, this is something that Toriyama is mostly to blame for. It's one of the pitfalls of Toriyama's writing style. Once he's done with a certain plot point, he will completely disregard it in favour of coming up with something else, without even taking into consideration the possibilities of whether what he has introduced can be expanded upon. The only time he will go back to a previous plot point is if it comes at the convenience of artificially continuing the story or the sake of one of the characters getting a cheap power up. His overall lackadaisical approach to the story is also culpable for Dragon Ball sub standard expansion of the baseline narrative. That's not to say that Toriyama doesn't care. It's just that I don't think he's willing to think outside of the box that much when it come to the story. I mean, if wasn't for Toei, Bardock would most likely not even exist. I mean, by his admission, the FOG TV special, which ranks amongst one of the best stories told in Dragon Ball, is something he would never write. That kind of storytelling is just not his style. Toriyama is the kind of guy who just prefers to play it safe and not really branch out the story.

At the end of the day, Earth just felt like such a barren wasteland of nothingness after the Red Ribbon Army arc.

EDIT: Now that think about it, Toei did actually try to explore the universe with GT. It wasn't executed as good as it could be, but the intention was there. So I think this is really all down to Toriyama lack of trying to expand the story.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:38 pm

The topic title doesn't really match the actual topic because we know how the universe works; We know there exist Kaio's, then above them Kaioshin, above them God of Destructions, above them Angels and above them Grand Priest and above them King of All. It seems the OP's problem is that we aren't seeing more non Earth people but honestly given the fact Beerus put a lot of stock in Goku considering the guy has been around forever shows that U7 is pretty barebones in terms of good fighters but it so happens to be that the best fighters are on Earth, we have couple prodigy Saiyans. Majin Buu, a Namek, super strong Andriods there is literally no reason to get help from another planet when Krillin Tien and Roshi can fill in perfectly without handicapping the team. Out of verse it also makes sense. 13 Universe's. That's a lot of character designs to come up with. U7 we have characters already there, bring back Gohan instead. Furthermore we're supposed to route of U7 hard to route for them if half the team we've never ever seen and are strangers to us fans.
Nano wrote:Just goes to show how horrible Super is.

M. Roshi as a contestant? Lol he stopped being a major player during DB, had zero play in DBZ, and now he's back as one of the strongest in the universe in DBS.

Smh I'm starting to believe Super is just a money grab.
That is a rather large assumption to make on very little context. We literally know nothing yet. Roshi being a contestant doesn't automatically mean he is the strangest in U7 and even if it does what's the big deal? It doesn't seem like there's anyone else stronger in U7. Why not get Roshi to fill in a slot? Instead of getting a random mook to do the same job with the exception being we'll have zero attachment to them.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Abra kadabra » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:44 pm

It's not that kind of show. Never has been.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by sintzu » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:49 pm

ChaosLordBrandon wrote:Do people forget we already defeated the strongest mortals of universe 7 back in the Freeza arc ?
Freeza being the only strong character out there was a very bad move on his part cause he could've done so much more with the space aspect of the franchise.
Abra kadabra wrote:It's not that kind of show. Never has been.
That doesn't mean it can't be.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:03 pm

sintzu wrote:
ChaosLordBrandon wrote:Do people forget we already defeated the strongest mortals of universe 7 back in the Freeza arc ?
Freeza being the only strong character out there was a very bad move on his part cause he could've done so much more with the space aspect of the franchise.
If I remember right, toriyama mentioned once he poured all his heart into the freeza saga, making it as grand as he could ( something along those lines, read it a very long time ago )
With goku achieving a legendary transformation to beat freeza, if freeza wasn't the strongest mortal the weight of it would lessen drastically.. and hey, he did work around it with future Villans so it's alright :)

It's a great move to introduce new universes now, there isn't any more remaining cracks in "freeza being strongest" statement to exploit..
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by sintzu » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:17 pm

Ki Breaker wrote: If I remember right, toriyama mentioned once he poured all his heart into the freeza saga, making it as grand as he could.

With goku achieving a legendary transformation to beat freeza, if freeza wasn't the strongest mortal the weight of it would lessen drastically.

He did work around it with future Villans so it's alright :)

It's a great move to introduce new universes now, there isn't any more remaining cracks in "freeza being strongest" statement to exploit..
I think it was in the 30th anniversary book.

He lessened it when he let Trunks slice him up without any effort even though he was stronger than he was when he fought Goku on Namek.

Androids made on earth with earth tech being stronger than him wasn't the best move but he's since made up for it.

I also like the idea of other universes but I think we should've gotten more from 7 before that.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Draconic » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:59 pm

Freeza and his men were the strongest mutants in the universe, except maybe Yakon. The Saiyans were the strongest fighting race in the universe. Majin Buu was the strongest non-god entity in the universe. The Galactic Patrol is the space police and their elite fighter, Jaco, is a weakling, so whatever threats there are in the universe would be piss in front of the top fighters. The possibilities of Universe 7 were kind of exhausted at around the Freeza saga. I mean, sure, you can still introduce stronger fighters or stuff like that, but it would really fuck with the lore. One place that can still hold enough promise for strong warriors is the Demon Realm, but even then, it's king, Dabura, was a joke for pretty much everybody by the Buu arc.

GT's story progression was quite good, with the precedent of scientists being able to build beings stronger that mythical warriors set in the Android arc, a super smart space-scientist could have the resources to create a Majin Buu tier fighter in Rildo. And then Baby stole Vegeta's body, a fighter in the top 5 in the universe. But even then, the whole journey into space drags a lot when you know Goku can just one-shot everybody in base and if not, he still has three transformations and everything eventually boiled down back to Earth.

I mean, yeah, for a new cast Universe 7 might still prove to hold enough adventures, but to characters who all are in the realm of Gods, it's quite hard. And that's not mentioning the original Z movies and Z filler and stuff like that where Goku got to be the strongest fighter of all fighters who ever lived in his universe while in the Afterlife, defeated countless Space Pirates like Slug, Tullece or Bojack or ultra powerful mystical creatures like Janemba and Hildegarn.
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