For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:03 pm

Freeza's been dead for about 20 something years by now, I think you can safely say strong guys appeared in other corners of U7 in the mean time to replace him and with his Empire shrinking, introducing more strong fighters outside of Earth isn't a stretch.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Draconic » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:20 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Freeza's been dead for about 20 something years by now, I think you can safely say strong guys appeared in other corners of U7 in the mean time to replace him and with his Empire shrinking, introducing more strong fighters outside of Earth isn't a stretch.
I guess that's true, probably even supported by RoF's original script, what with Freeza hiring powerful mercenaries from around the universe, but even then, that level of power got obsolete the moment Future Trunks made a joke out of a powered up Freeza and his about as strong father. Anyone at Goten or kid Trunks level would wipe the floor with whatever mutants appeared. Unless those hypothetical strong guys are more powerful than Buu, who besides the God of Destruction and maybe South Kaioshin, was the greatest fighter for millions of years, they are shit to anyone except the humans.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:22 pm

Draconic wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Freeza's been dead for about 20 something years by now, I think you can safely say strong guys appeared in other corners of U7 in the mean time to replace him and with his Empire shrinking, introducing more strong fighters outside of Earth isn't a stretch.
I guess that's true, probably even supported by RoF's original script, what with Freeza hiring powerful mercenaries from around the universe, but even then, that level of power got obsolete the moment Future Trunks made a joke out of a powered up Freeza and his about as strong father. Anyone at Goten or kid Trunks level would wipe the floor with whatever mutants appeared. Unless those hypothetical strong guys are more powerful than Buu, who besides the God of Destruction and maybe South Kaioshin, was the greatest fighter for millions of years, they are shit to anyone except the humans.
True but at least these guys in the Namek Freeza or even 17 and 18 range are still vastly better options for combatants than fucking Tien, Krillin and Roshi. At least with these guys you'd establish that they have a lot of growth potential and a desire for self-improvement to make that potential go somewhere.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Draconic » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:49 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Draconic wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Freeza's been dead for about 20 something years by now, I think you can safely say strong guys appeared in other corners of U7 in the mean time to replace him and with his Empire shrinking, introducing more strong fighters outside of Earth isn't a stretch.
I guess that's true, probably even supported by RoF's original script, what with Freeza hiring powerful mercenaries from around the universe, but even then, that level of power got obsolete the moment Future Trunks made a joke out of a powered up Freeza and his about as strong father. Anyone at Goten or kid Trunks level would wipe the floor with whatever mutants appeared. Unless those hypothetical strong guys are more powerful than Buu, who besides the God of Destruction and maybe South Kaioshin, was the greatest fighter for millions of years, they are shit to anyone except the humans.
True but at least these guys in the Namek Freeza or even 17 and 18 range are still vastly better options for combatants than fucking Tien, Krillin and Roshi. At least with these guys you'd establish that they have a lot of growth potential and a desire for self-improvement to make that potential go somewhere.
I understand the sentiment towards Muten Roshi, though for Krillin and Tien I believe there is an argument to be made. But even so they already have two god tier fighters in Goku and Vegeta, two high end Buu arc tiers in Gohan and Buu, two Android arc tiers in well... the Androids, one at least Cell Games tier in Piccolo. They already have most of their bases covered and taking three more fighters they know they can rely on isn't far fetched. Goten and Trunks should have been there, but I do think their inexperience makes them a little unreliable, especially knowing Toriyama doesn't give a shit in developing them.

That's of course not taking into account the out of universe reasoning that introducing three more fighters in the U7's team, on top of what already might be the most massive group of characters to be introduced in the franchise, could prove detrimental, especially in a series like Super. The element of surprise is still there, as with the new characters their biggest draw in a tournament arc would be how they fight and with Krillin, Tenshinhan and Kame-Sennin sitting on the fence for so long, that still applies to them too.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by DBZ Macky » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:05 pm

We already have our powerhouses in the form of Goku, Vegeta and possibly Gohan and Piccolo.

It wouldn't hurt to have weaker characters like Kame-sennin, Ten and Kuririn take 3 spots. In fact, they'd actually be WAY more useful than, say, someone like Goten or Trunks.

Imagine #17 fighting Botamo to no avail, and a stalemate occurs. Both of them have nigh infinite stamina and defense, but due to Botamo's power advantage, he somehow pulls the win.
Then Tenshinhan steps up and pushes him out of the ring with a super-powered Kikoho.

Someone else can't defeat Magetta. Well, Kame-sennin makes some cool afterimages to confuse him, electrifies the shit outta him, puts him to sleep and seals him in a rice cooker.

Kuririn can also pull a 'W' with his Kienzan or some other technique.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Nejishiki » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:35 pm

Draconic wrote:Freeza and his men were the strongest mutants in the universe, except maybe Yakon. The Saiyans were the strongest fighting race in the universe. Majin Buu was the strongest non-god entity in the universe. The Galactic Patrol is the space police and their elite fighter, Jaco, is a weakling, so whatever threats there are in the universe would be piss in front of the top fighters. The possibilities of Universe 7 were kind of exhausted at around the Freeza saga. I mean, sure, you can still introduce stronger fighters or stuff like that, but it would really fuck with the lore. One place that can still hold enough promise for strong warriors is the Demon Realm, but even then, it's king, Dabura, was a joke for pretty much everybody by the Buu arc.
Just to point this out, Jaco isn't actually considered an elite officer nor fighter, I don't think. That's his own self-importance at work. His introductory story and missions in Dragon Ball Super both seem to reflect how he's rarely taken seriously by his peers. They assign him low-ranking tasks in hopes that he doesn't screw them up!

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Draconic » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:46 pm

Nejishiki wrote:
Draconic wrote:Freeza and his men were the strongest mutants in the universe, except maybe Yakon. The Saiyans were the strongest fighting race in the universe. Majin Buu was the strongest non-god entity in the universe. The Galactic Patrol is the space police and their elite fighter, Jaco, is a weakling, so whatever threats there are in the universe would be piss in front of the top fighters. The possibilities of Universe 7 were kind of exhausted at around the Freeza saga. I mean, sure, you can still introduce stronger fighters or stuff like that, but it would really fuck with the lore. One place that can still hold enough promise for strong warriors is the Demon Realm, but even then, it's king, Dabura, was a joke for pretty much everybody by the Buu arc.
Just to point this out, Jaco isn't actually considered an elite officer nor fighter, I don't think. That's his own self-importance at work. His introductory story and missions in Dragon Ball Super both seem to reflect how he's rarely taken seriously by his peers. They assign him low-ranking tasks in hopes that he doesn't screw them up!
Oh... Must have missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. But even so, the fact Freeza's army still exists years after the strongest members died and has grown even weaker by RoF shows that the Galactic Patrol is not that big of a deal.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:51 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:We already have our powerhouses in the form of Goku, Vegeta and possibly Gohan and Piccolo.

It wouldn't hurt to have weaker characters like Kame-sennin, Ten and Kuririn take 3 spots. In fact, they'd actually be WAY more useful than, say, someone like Goten or Trunks.

Imagine #17 fighting Botamo to no avail, and a stalemate occurs. Both of them have nigh infinite stamina and defense, but due to Botamo's power advantage, he somehow pulls the win.
Then Tenshinhan steps up and pushes him out of the ring with a super-powered Kikoho.

Someone else can't defeat Magetta. Well, Kame-sennin makes some cool afterimages to confuse him, electrifies the shit outta him, puts him to sleep and seals him in a rice cooker.

Kuririn can also pull a 'W' with his Kienzan or some other technique.

Powar Levuls aren't everything. Technique also matters.
Exacly, you can't out 10 powerhouses in to battle as if their is one opponent that can negate then they are in deep trouble. Buu could use his magic and the androids infinite ki is also useful along with Piccolo's strategy and techniques.

Most importantly to fans it would just be boring if the person with a high power level decided every match.

I just feel like people will stop their negativity once they see people like Tien, Krillin and Roshi in action.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:27 pm

Like others have mentioned Freeza was supposed to be the strongest "Mortal" being who wasn't a creation or god/demon. It wouldn't make sense if he conquered a massive portion of the universe and it was just crawling with stronger lifeforms. Granted there are parts he probably didn't touch or get to but still.

Another point is that the Gods in DBS are not all knowing. There may be stronger fighters out there in the far corners of the universe but how would anyone even know? I mean Beerus only found Goku because of an oracle fish :lol:

Also while we don't know for sure....from the trailer my assumption is that they only find out about the universes being destroyed either once the first has been destroyed or right before the tournament. So they may have taken "weaker" fighters due to friendship and wanting to have fun. Goku doesn't give a crap about winning and just wants to fight strong people (unless he knows the stakes which as I said I dont think so).

Okay last point:

Goku - Raised on Earth but an alien.
Vegeta - Not from Earth but lives there.
Majin Buu: Magical Creature
Gohan = Half Alien raised on Earth

So I guess by this I mean that yes the fighters were brought from Earth but actually come from different places as well.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by precita » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:41 pm

I don't understand what the problem is here. You want them to explore generic planets with generic aliens? There's probably millions of planets in one universe. What would we find there other than some generic looking aliens?

We've already seen various aliens in filler episodes, Freeza's army, the movies, Planet Arlia, what do you even want? Why would anyone even care about this? To see some weird purple looking aliens?

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:46 pm

precita wrote:I don't understand what the problem is here. You want them to explore generic planets with generic aliens? There's probably millions of planets in one universe. What would we find there other than some generic looking aliens?

We've already seen various aliens in filler episodes, Freeza's army, the movies, Planet Arlia, what do you even want? Why would anyone even care about this? To see some weird purple looking aliens?
That's not really the point. They've skipped a crucial step in world-building, we're seeing various powerful species' from other universes before ever exploring U7. Also, they don't have to be generic at all, there are a near infinite amount of possibilities for heroes, villains, strange and magical creatures. Even if Freeza was the most powerful mortal in our universe beforehand, there's no reason someone can't rise up to surpass that barrier.

Frankly, I understand that this is Dragon Ball, we can't always expect everything to follow the natural expansion of events when the author makes everything up as he goes. It's still worth noting that the kink exists.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by precita » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:51 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
precita wrote:I don't understand what the problem is here. You want them to explore generic planets with generic aliens? There's probably millions of planets in one universe. What would we find there other than some generic looking aliens?

We've already seen various aliens in filler episodes, Freeza's army, the movies, Planet Arlia, what do you even want? Why would anyone even care about this? To see some weird purple looking aliens?
That's not really the point. They've skipped a crucial step in world-building, we're seeing various powerful species' from other universes before ever exploring U7. Also, they don't have to be generic at all, there are a near infinite amount of possibilities for heroes, villains, strange and magical creatures. Even if Freeza was the most powerful mortal in our universe beforehand, there's no reason someone can't rise up to surpass that barrier.

Frankly, I understand that this is Dragon Ball, we can't always expect everything to follow the natural expansion of events when the author makes everything up as he goes. It's still worth noting that the kink exists.
Then these people can watch the movies. You'll see stronger characters than Freeza who aren't Saiyans or related to him like Broly or Cooler. Like Bojack in Movie 9, Movie 13's main villain (still can't spell his name after all this time, lol), Janemba, etc.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:53 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
precita wrote:I don't understand what the problem is here. You want them to explore generic planets with generic aliens? There's probably millions of planets in one universe. What would we find there other than some generic looking aliens?

We've already seen various aliens in filler episodes, Freeza's army, the movies, Planet Arlia, what do you even want? Why would anyone even care about this? To see some weird purple looking aliens?
That's not really the point. They've skipped a crucial step in world-building, we're seeing various powerful species' from other universes before ever exploring U7. Also, they don't have to be generic at all, there are a near infinite amount of possibilities for heroes, villains, strange and magical creatures. Even if Freeza was the most powerful mortal in our universe beforehand, there's no reason someone can't rise up to surpass that barrier.

Frankly, I understand that this is Dragon Ball, we can't always expect everything to follow the natural expansion of events when the author makes everything up as he goes. It's still worth noting that the kink exists.

Personally I'd find it kind of odd if all sorts of fighters stronger than Frieza rose up in the limited time since he was defeated. You don't just go from one guy being the strongest to everyone being better.

Here is an example that works but obviously isnt universal in scale: When Mohammad Ali retired from the sport of Boxing we didn't see tons of stronger fighters rise from nowhere. Its been a long time and most agree he's still one of if not the greatest. I dont see why we'd expect all sorts of strong aliens just because Frieza was defeated. If no-one strong came from your race the last however long it seems strange to expect a bunch to pop up in a short period.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Akyon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:03 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote: One Planet I do not want to go to is Planet Sadal simply because we need no more Saiyans and we know they are good and Cabba is the only Super Saiyan. Meeting the king is something they don't need to do really
THIS. For the love of god, if there's one thing this show doesn't need more of it's MORE saiyans and a trip to Planet Sadal sounds like the most boring thing you could do in U6. Oh, so it's a planet filled with heroic good guy Saiyans who don't have great ape transformations(one of the more interesting things about saiyans) and only one of them can go SSJ...and it's basically just going to be Earth with saiyans instead of Earthlings isn't it?

I always though Cabba, and indeed Frost, were the two most boring U6 fighters. We've done Saiyans to DEATH by this point, Namekians have had their fill with an entire arc dedicated to their home planet, and Earthlings have had the majority of the show spent on them. Frieza's race has been somewhat explored now with Frieza, King Kold, Chilled, Cooler, Kuriza and now Frost.

Botamo and Magetta and to a FAR lesser extent Hit are far more intriguing as new races. We've not seen anything quite like Magetta before and it shows Toriyama can be pretty creative instead of just making an Earthling and colouring it teal or red and calling it an alien. Looking at you Zarbon and Jeice. I love ya, but you're lazy alien design.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:03 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Freeza's been dead for about 20 something years by now, I think you can safely say strong guys appeared in other corners of U7 in the mean time to replace him and with his Empire shrinking, introducing more strong fighters outside of Earth isn't a stretch.
20 years is absolutely nothing...barely enough time for a child to become an adult. Frieza didn't just rule the galaxy. He destroyed any beings with strength he feared or thought could become annoying....he killed countless innocent people through his empire. Saiyans wiped out entire planets for him. He decimated the universe. Where are these people stronger than him coming from.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Muffin Man » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:42 pm

GT already dealt with how powerful threats could exist out in the universe: technology. If a scientist on earth can build androids stronger than Freeza (or as strong as Super Saiyan Blue, if we count Arale), there's no reason alien scientists couldn't come up with even better technology, which is why the Machine Mutants and Dr. Myuu were cool ideas. And they could easily have justified the lack of powerful technology in DBZ (aside from the androids on earth) by stating that Freeza actively destroyed planets that became too advanced in terms of weaponry and robotics, leading planets to stifle their own technological progression until after Freeza's death (thus explaining why powerful technology populates the universe by the time of GT).

GT just needed to use its concepts better. It's such a shame that it didn't.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:21 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:Personally I'd find it kind of odd if all sorts of fighters stronger than Frieza rose up in the limited time since he was defeated. You don't just go from one guy being the strongest to everyone being better.
That's like, a regular occurrence in Dragon Ball.
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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:24 pm

Paper Lung wrote:Other than few notable planets like Namek, Vegeta, and Yardrat, there really hasn't been much exposition given to U7 outside of the God hierarchy. Shouldn't a race like Botamo's exist somewhere? What about Maggeta's? Hit's? The universe is enormous, so big that us humans can't even comprehend it, and yet Master Roshi was chosen to fight? Really...? Nobody else? They're all from Earth, actually. Oh well.
Earth already defeated Freeza and his army of the most powerful fighters in the universe. Why look anywhere else for team members?

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:17 pm

Muffin Man wrote:GT already dealt with how powerful threats could exist out in the universe: technology. If a scientist on earth can build androids stronger than Freeza (or as strong as Super Saiyan Blue, if we count Arale), there's no reason alien scientists couldn't come up with even better technology, which is why the Machine Mutants and Dr. Myuu were cool ideas. And they could easily have justified the lack of powerful technology in DBZ (aside from the androids on earth) by stating that Freeza actively destroyed planets that became too advanced in terms of weaponry and robotics, leading planets to stifle their own technological progression until after Freeza's death (thus explaining why powerful technology populates the universe by the time of GT).

GT just needed to use its concepts better. It's such a shame that it didn't.
except goku was nerfed as all hell throughout all of GT from being tutned into a kid and ghan and vegeta weren't around.

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Re: For a show that's about to build on the other universes, we really don't know much about U7

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:27 pm

anyone to answer your question what be the catalyst for an exploration of U7? you had that in GT and it felt not only contrived but it was boring as all hell, I don't think some of those planets had a name

Kid buu destroyed a lot of it, frieza ruled over the rest of it and beerus rules it, power wise, you are not getting any stronger fighters.

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