Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

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Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:31 pm

Based upon this blog post: http://nivlugassiarts.blogspot.co.il/20 ... zu-in.html

Disclosure: Was posted at Reddit 4 months ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/4 ... iaotzu_in/, I'd like to see the views of people here.

Edit: I've made a petition: https://www.change.org/p/toei-animation ... a-chiatozu
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it's easy to insert Yamcha and Chiaotzu into existing frames since the whole of DBS is digitally made (unlike DB/DBZ/GT that were drawn on thousands [!] of plastic frames and to color each of these frames manually [!] and to place them with the proper shading/lighting adjustment under the camera to be scanned/taken pictured back as many times each frame is needed for the given sequence and print all the modifications into the final cut of the strip/film of each episode), all it requires is just to draw them over the frames/svg files in the episodes' projects next to the already existing characters, add some short action scenes of them beating up Frieza Soldiers, publish/extract it and dub them throughout the scenes they need to speak in and that's the end of the story, it's seemed stupid Master Roshi and Jaco were there to handle Frieza's 1000 goons but two of the ORIGINAL DB Gang were absent against such weaklings.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:37 pm

With so many soldiers and Roshi in there? Yes, definitely there was room for Yamcha to kick some ass. Left him out was a dick move.
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Draconic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:38 pm

They should have been there taking care of the army, while Gohan and Piccolo fought Tagoma and Shisami. There definetley was a place for them, if it wasn't for the short runtime. The arc could have fixed that, but the less we talk about that the better.
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by precita » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:19 pm

You know between the movie version and the upcoming tournament, I notice Toriyama is purposely excluding Trunks, Goten, Yamcha, etc. from the big battles. Why?

The Super version had Trunks/Goten show up in the Freeza arc, but they did very little. What is going on in Toriyama's mind? He also brought back both Tenshihan and Roshi twice over them.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by The gr » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:24 pm

precita wrote:You know between the movie version and the upcoming tournament, I notice Toriyama is purposely excluding Trunks, Goten, Yamcha, etc. from the big battles. Why?

The Super version had Trunks/Goten show up in the Freeza arc, but they did very little. What is going on in Toriyama's mind? He also brought back both Tenshihan and Roshi twice over them.
Maybe toriyama or toei views yamcha as a gag

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Gog » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:26 pm

Yeah their definitely was a spot.

Its just that the Z fighters 'forgot' to tell him

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by dragonballhero » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:39 pm

Oh, HECK YES. As FortuneSSJ just said:
FortuneSSJ wrote:With so many soldiers and Roshi in there? Yes, definitely there was room for Yamcha and Chiaotzu to kick some ass. Leaving them out was a dick move.
To this day, this right here is one of the reasons I practically DESPISE the Golden Frieza arc in Super, as MANY characters who don't have the strength of Goku and Vegeta, yet have the battle skills of the Dragon Team, circa Saiyan/Frieza arc and onward would have been MORE than useful for that arc. Yamcha, Chiaoztu, and let's not forget about Android 18. Not to mention the ******-up way Goten and Trunks were handled in that arc pissed me off to no end.

Long rant short, Yamcha and Chiaotzu (alongside others like Android 18, Goten, and Trunks) DEFINITELY had a place in that battle, and there is NO legit excuse as to why they were left out.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:59 pm

Of course there was, given how many of Freeza's grunts the Z-Fighters were taking on.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by TheZFighter » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:02 pm

Obviously I am incredibly bias as I am a big fan of the Earthling main characters, but yes there was certainly a place for Yamcha and Chiaotzu, especially if there was a place for Roshi and Jaco!

Frieza's army is not only HUGE but the majority of it is filled with weak rubbish, so it was a perect opportunity for Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and even Yajirobe, to shine and pick up some wins, albeit unimpressive ones...

A shame.

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I wonder what Chiaotzu does, all on his own, when Tien goes off to get involved in things like this...
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:05 am

TheZFighter wrote:Obviously I am incredibly bias as I am a big fan of the Earthling main characters, but yes there was certainly a place for Yamcha and Chiaotzu, especially if there was a place for Roshi and Jaco!

Frieza's army is not only HUGE but the majority of it is filled with weak rubbish, so it was a perect opportunity for Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and even Yajirobe, to shine and pick up some wins, albeit unimpressive ones...

A shame.
Yeah, sadly this story had so much potential that never got fully exploited. Poor writing by Toriyama no doubt, Toei (who in terms of professional animation executed it perfectly on the movie) should have used their heads and fix these flaws when adapting it for Dragon Ball Super, yet they have chosen not to and the result is this joke of an arc that's considered by the fandom (Reddit and other forums I've saw were full of complains about it) to be the weakest in the series so far.
TheZFighter wrote: I wonder what Chiaotzu does, all on his own, when Tien goes off to get involved in things like this...
I'll assume it's safe to say he's either: 1) calling his agent and cursing him with a lot of F words (pun inteneded) for not booking him this option to shine once more. 2) plays checkers with Launch. 3) Have a country to run (Emperor of Mifan isn't an easy job/title). 4) sends Toriyama an angry email about being a neglected character that would like to move to another franchise.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by TheZFighter » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:36 am

Israelite Wolfman wrote:Yeah, sadly this story had so much potential that never got fully exploited. Poor writing by Toriyama no doubt, Toei (who in terms of professional animation executed it perfectly on the movie) should have used their heads and fix these flaws when adapting it for Dragon Ball Super, yet they have chosen not to and the result is this joke of an arc that's considered by the fandom (Reddit and other forums I've saw were full of complains about it) to be the weakest in the series so far.
I wasn't aware that many people felt passionate about Yamcha and Chiaotzu's involvement, or lack thereof... I've always figured I was in the minority with my "Earthling loving".
Israelite Wolfman wrote:I'll assume it's safe to say he's either: 1) calling his agent and cursing him with a lot of F words (pun inteneded) for not booking him this option to shine once more. 2) plays checkers with Launch. 3) Have a country to run (Emperor of Mifan isn't an easy job/title). 4) sends Toriyama an angry email about being a neglected character that would like to move to another franchise.
Yeah I bet he has a few complaints about being married to a doll as well...
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:47 am

TheZFighter wrote:I wasn't aware that many people felt passionate about Yamcha and Chiaotzu's involvement, or lack thereof... I've always figured I was in the minority with my "Earthling loving".
Nah, don't think you're alone in the front lines, man, there are plenty of us around the fandom. We're tired of Yamcha, Chiaotzu & the other Human Z-Fighters getting treated like shit for years now ever since that Super Saiyan transformation became the synonym for Dragon Ball. RoF could fixed it, yet it didn't, but then Toei staff became aware of our love for Yamcha and decided to produce us DBS Episode 70 to "sweet talk" their fault of this (only to keep him as a joke in the end for fan service).
TheZFighter wrote:Yeah I bet he has a few complaints about being married to a doll as well...
They'll be doing a great grace with giving Yamcha & Chiaotzu romantic relationships, it'll be so much better In-Universe-wise than having these two sore bachelors in their 40s & 50s (who won't reproduce for the next generations, even Pilaf managed to do so according to Dragon Ball Online). Krillin got married and even TIen has Launch, I don't see why or how come these two can't find a match (Chiaotzu is a bigger challenge due to his look but they can easily solve it with some female of his "tribe/clan/people").

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by The_Destroyer » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:25 pm

If Yamcha fought in RoF, I wouldn't be too upset that he is left out in the latest arc. If you look at ending 3 for dragonball super, You'll see Yamcha,Tien,Krillin,Goten,Trunks,Piccolo,Vegeta,Gohan,and Goku all looking into the sky, but not Roshi or Choatzu, so Toei considers him a Z fighter. Yet, they continue to leave him out of big arcs. Why?

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Zeru14 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:44 am

Yes it would have been nice for Toriyama to include them in the Return of Frieza arc, their last real battle was the Saiyan Saga and we all know how that went. And its a shame that Toriyama never wrote Yamcha a new love interest(I want it to be Tights, that'll stick it to Bulma), he had the same dream as Krillin but never achieves it, because Toriyama finds making a Yamcha a loser at love and fighting better story telling, and Chiaotzu was changed from a psychic prodigy of the Crane School who could fight evenly with Krillin to the poor wittle guy that cant keep up. And I do think Chiaotzu can have a love interest as well, someone like Tarble's wife Gure would be perfect.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by precita » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:38 am

TheZFighter wrote:
I wasn't aware that many people felt passionate about Yamcha and Chiaotzu's involvement, or lack thereof... I've always figured I was in the minority with my "Earthling loving".
Yamcha has one of the largest fanbases in the anime. In Japanese polls he outranked both Tenshihan, Cell and other important characters.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:16 am

The_Destroyer wrote:If Yamcha fought in RoF, I wouldn't be too upset that he is left out in the latest arc. If you look at ending 3 for dragonball super, You'll see Yamcha,Tien,Krillin,Goten,Trunks,Piccolo,Vegeta,Gohan,and Goku all looking into the sky, but not Roshi or Choatzu, so Toei considers him a Z fighter. Yet, they continue to leave him out of big arcs. Why?
That's a question only the members of Toei staff who sat in the discussions room (before RoF or DBS' adaption of it) can answer. If they thought that having him in the "Usubeni" (the best DBS ending song so far if you ask me) would repay for his absence in the actual fight against Frieza, they're SO wrong. If they really wanted to do some fans service or simply justice with Yamcha (who is one of the most lovable characters in the Dragon Ball franchise) & Chiaotzu, they can add them to the existing cells of either the movie or the anime (much easier, Toei, we know you lurk here), draw a few action scenes with them against the Frieza mooks to fill in the gap and re-dub Tien's line about leaving them behind because it was "too dangerous for them" into something like "We're here as well, is it really Frieza?" & add them lines as well, if going for the anime then also have Ginyu-Tagoma take them out as well (could grab Chiaotzu by his head and throw him at Yamcha like a fastball, thus leaving the existing scenario of him taking out all the Z-Fighters untouched) AND THIS NONSENSE IS HISTORY. It should take less than a week to execute this (either to the existing movie or to the DBS RoF Arc), considering the fact I've saw somewhere it takes them 3.5 days to make a Dragon Ball Super Episode.

Even I could do that in a few minutes, so no excuses from a professional animation studio are welcome here:Image
Zeru14 wrote:Yes it would have been nice for Toriyama to include them in the Return of Frieza arc, their last real battle was the Saiyan Saga and we all know how that went. And its a shame that Toriyama never wrote Yamcha a new love interest(I want it to be Tights, that'll stick it to Bulma), he had the same dream as Krillin but never achieves it, because Toriyama finds making a Yamcha a loser at love and fighting better story telling, and Chiaotzu was changed from a psychic prodigy of the Crane School who could fight evenly with Krillin to the poor wittle guy that cant keep up. And I do think Chiaotzu can have a love interest as well, someone like Tarble's wife Gure would be perfect.
Agreed. I won't mind seeing Yamcha dating Cocoa from the last 2 episodes. Toriyama lost it when the Saiyans took over his franchise, but when having an opportunity of having his less-ape characters shine once again like in RoF, one should simply insert his old heroes for the sake of nostalgia without any questions or doubt. Especially when he knows they made the franchise successful even without blonde aliens.
precita wrote:Yamcha has one of the largest fanbases in the anime. In Japanese polls he outranked both Tenshihan, Cell and other important characters.
Yamcha is underestimated by Toriyama so badly, he is so much enjoyable as a character than the almost one dimensional Tien. He wasn't even referred to in the DBS arc of this movie (guess they realized it would be absurd to claim he was afraid of fighting these weakling Frieza soldiers Roshi & Jaco could take out, but didn't found any better excuse for leaving him out). I guess episode 70 was some form of appologizing to the Yamcha fans he wasn't included in this battle, yet the memes that Saibaman jihad from DBZ provided gave them the chance/excuse to ruin his badassery at the end.

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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by TheZFighter » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:35 am

precita wrote:
TheZFighter wrote:
I wasn't aware that many people felt passionate about Yamcha and Chiaotzu's involvement, or lack thereof... I've always figured I was in the minority with my "Earthling loving".
Yamcha has one of the largest fanbases in the anime. In Japanese polls he outranked both Tenshihan, Cell and other important characters.
Nice, didn't know that. Guess his "meme status" in the Internet Era has probably helped a lot.
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by kinisking » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:35 am

Toriyama doesn't like them i guess because it's possible to write a story with them. Especially in ROF where there was an entire army.
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:35 am

kinisking wrote:Toriyama doesn't like them i guess because it's possible to write a story with them. Especially in ROF where there was an entire army.
Yeah, or maybe they just aren't interesting enough to him anymore and are already way back power wise, so it's easy to discard them without anyone questioning too much..
Unlike a certain character he dosen't seem ti like anymore who needed to be nerfed, kicked out of the story by odd means and for some reason also wasn't a part of a similar arc he was the main focus of before..
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Re: Was there a place for Yamcha & Chiaotzu in Resurrection 'F' (Dragon Ball Z/Super)?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:09 pm

kinisking wrote:Toriyama doesn't like them i guess because it's possible to write a story with them. Especially in ROF where there was an entire army.
Toriyama should know many fans prefer this: Image, THIS:Image & scenes where all the original Z-Fighters/old guys matter to the plot: Image over this: Image, this: Image & Image

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