Goku becoming Evil

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by HeroR » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:47 pm

Low Tone G wrote: But we already know that it will turn out for the best, this is before EoZ, so...
I personally think that this isn't in Goku's character, to be this jerk and disrespectful towards Beerus...
All EOZ tells us is that U7 survives. Not the other universes.

And he has been a jerk and disrespectful to the gods since forever.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Draconic » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:55 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Draconic wrote:
TheMikado wrote: Zen-Oh destroyed 6 universes over petty things
and Goku witnessed him destroy another one recently.
Its not unreasonable to thing a similar thing would happen again.
Goku witnessed Zeno destroying an entire Universe that was being corrupted and lifeless due to the greatest foe he ever met.
He also saw that despite everybody being so afraid of Zeno, the guy was actually pretty cool to him and only wanted a friend. He also spared everybody in the U6 arc.

He is irresposible for not taking the advice of the guys who saved his ass at least three times now and have experience with the guy, but he also has no reason to think Zeno will just go and wipe every losing Universe, since after the last tournament no one got hurt and no one even got punished.
Except for wiping out 6 universes for something that even Whis describes as trivial. There's plenty of evidence that he's not the kind of guy Goku should take lightly.
You could make a case for Trunks timeline, but not in the context of the other 6 perfectly viable universes (to our knowledge anyway). All that means is that he's wiped out magnitudes more innocent lives for something far more trivial
Again, that's true and it counts to the advices the Gods gave him against fraternizing with Zeno. But from everything Goku actually SAW of Zeno is a child who's been nothing but friendly to him, merciful of his disobeying underlings and helpful on defeating his unstoppable enemy. It's arrogant of Goku to think he knows better, especially since those guys warning him did nothing but put up with his shit, but from his point of view, there's no way he could think Zeno would murder everybody. Remember another trait of his is seeing the best in everybody. It's a mistake, but it's treated as such. And we haven't seen his reaction to the Universe destruction rule, so who knows what he'll think. If we go by his character up to now, he will take responsabillity eventually, much like he did in the Android arc or the Buu arc (of course, with Super you never know). He did this stuff before, it's nothing new. It's the way he is. The fact it is getting some attention is good, since before now no one called him out on it in-universe. Krillin went with sparring Vegeta, everybody went with not killing Gero, his putting Earth and eventually the Universe in the Buu arc got hand-waved at the end. Now Beerus is actually scolding him for being naive.
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by TheMathemagician » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:58 pm

TheMikado wrote:^ If your referencing Goku showing mercy and allowing enemies which he HAS ALREADY DEFEATED go then I would have to say you're incorrect.
Goku has never gambled the lives of trillions without justified cause. This isn't an inevitability like Buu. This would be the equivalent of Goku going to Babidi and giving him power so he could test himself againt Buu with full knowledge and warning that his actions could possibly destroy the universe.
There was no justified cause in sparing Vegeta purely out of a selfish desire to fight him again. Just like how he tempted with fate in this episode, he did so with Vegeta.
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:02 pm

I think people are looking into the OP way too deeply. Goku is not becoming evil nor should he. The concept of "Evil Goku" has been dabbled with several times in the past and finally reached its apex with Goku Black. I personally don't think we're ever going to come up with a incarnation based on the concept of "Evil Goku" better than what Super provided with Goku Black.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:55 pm

mute_proxy wrote:So, people are doing the whole "NEW TRANSFORMATION OMG" thing for that short Kaioken scene huh.. Not surprised :lol:
Kaiohken, you say? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by HeroR » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:01 am

Draconic wrote: Again, that's true and it counts to the advices the Gods gave him against fraternizing with Zeno. But from everything Goku actually SAW of Zeno is a child who's been nothing but friendly to him, merciful of his disobeying underlings and helpful on defeating his unstoppable enemy. It's arrogant of Goku to think he knows better, especially since those guys warning him did nothing but put up with his shit, but from his point of view, there's no way he could think Zeno would murder everybody. Remember another trait of his is seeing the best in everybody. It's a mistake, but it's treated as such. And we haven't seen his reaction to the Universe destruction rule, so who knows what he'll think. If we go by his character up to now, he will take responsabillity eventually, much like he did in the Android arc or the Buu arc (of course, with Super you never know). He did this stuff before, it's nothing new. It's the way he is. The fact it is getting some attention is good, since before now no one called him out on it in-universe. Krillin went with sparring Vegeta, everybody went with not killing Gero, his putting Earth and eventually the Universe in the Buu arc got hand-waved at the end. Now Beerus is actually scolding him for being naive.
It should be also noted that without trying Goku did something that no one, not Beerus or Whis has done. He made friends with Zen'o and even gave him a playmate. So already Goku has an experience with Zen'o that isn't matched with Beerus and Whis. The same thing happened with Beerus when all the Kais were shocked that Goku was able to win over the God of Destruction, who was considered a force of nature just like Zen'o.

So from Goku's POV, Zen' was no different than Beerus. He was told he was destructive, petty, unpredictable, and shouldn't be mess with. Yet, from Goku acting recklessly, he gained two powerful allies. So why would Goku assumed Zen'o would be any different, especially since he comes off as far nicer than Beerus even now? We, as the audience, know that Beerus is right because we have been told what the stakes are going to be. So for us, it's easy to that things will go wrong. If we went in blind like with Zamasu, was Goku or Beerus more right about him, we may side with Beerus more, but we wouldn't dismissed Goku's view that maybe Zamasu isn't as bad as he seems.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:47 am

That bit might be a throwback to the "Cha La Head Cha La" opening where it has Vegeta and Nappa walking.
EDIT:
Could not find a gif of that, but here's the next best thing:
Image
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
http://dba.bn-ent.net/character/barduck.html
https://i.imgur.com/86hOk5i.gif

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Hit!! » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:52 am

More than anything evil, i feel like Goku is becoming more and more the TeamFourStar version of himself.

I would not be surprised at this point if Goku starts asking piccolo if he's Yoshi!!
Last edited by Hit!! on Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:55 am

You either die a hero or live long enough to become a Saiyan.

Yeah that grin of his is kind of spooky. But I don't think Goku is becoming evil. We just did Goku Black. However, he may veer into an anti-hero territory where he's consumed by nothing but the thought of battle. Now that I could see happening, and the next arc is his family and friends bringing him peace. But Goku evil? No.
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Lek » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:35 am

When I watched the new opening for the first time, my wife (who has not been into Dragon Ball since the end of Z) looked up and just asked "Isn't that Black?"
What an interesting observation, especially since she's not watched any Super so far, except for looking over occasionally when I was watching.

I don't think that he'll turn evil. But I do believe that Goku Black was so popular, that they might integrate some of his traits into Goku in the future.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Hakaishin Saitama » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:38 am

I know it's a loooooooooooong shot, but what do you think the chances of Goku eventually becoming a GoD are? Beerus has mentioned or referenced this possibility several times. Hell, the disappointment he expresses in this episode upon learning Goku was injured by a bullet and was rusty and therefore wouldn't make a good GoD was at least interesting to reflect on. Also, what if Zeno was like, "Hey, I'm going to make you a GoD now, see?" I could see this happening if Goku wasn't forced to destroy things indiscriminately and be allowed to train for eons with his own Angel, Daishinkan, Zeno, or whoever else. You know, typical selfish Goku kinds of things.

Also, that smirk is most likely selfish, battle-hungry, confident standard Goku.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:00 am

Hakaishin Saitama wrote:I know it's a loooooooooooong shot, but what do you think the chances of Goku eventually becoming a GoD are? Beerus has mentioned or referenced this possibility several times. Hell, the disappointment he expresses in this episode upon learning Goku was injured by a bullet and was rusty and therefore wouldn't make a good GoD was at least interesting to reflect on. Also, what if Zeno was like, "Hey, I'm going to make you a GoD now, see?" I could see this happening if Goku wasn't forced to destroy things indiscriminately and be allowed to train for eons with his own Angel, Daishinkan, Zeno, or whoever else. You know, typical selfish Goku kinds of things.

Also, that smirk is most likely selfish, battle-hungry, confident standard Goku.
Only thing is, it will have the opposite effect, if goku is a god of destruction he can't fight any other gods.. his life will be linked to shin and would be forced to live all the time with whis..
There isn't any worthy opponent except in other Universes anymore and a god can't just go into other gods domain and fight people under their control..
It will be real hell for Goku
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Fizzer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:10 pm

I don't think he'll become a sneering villain or anything, but I think his addiction to fighting and incredible power is getting to him, and he's going to go too far and face some serious consequences. Once he realises he's messed up, though, he'll begin damage control and actually grow as a character, rather than turning evil.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by coola » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:53 am

I hope something terrible happen in this tournament, and it wont be able to get fixed with Dragon Balls, maybe this will somehow open eyes for Goku, and make him realize, what terrible thing he did?
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Luke Groundwalker » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:35 pm

I'm really jumping on board with this theory as well. Now, I'm not suggesting Goku is maliciously evil or anything, but I have a feeling he's going to technically be the antagonist of this arc rather than Goku fighting against an antagonist as traditional roles. I think Goku is going to go through multiple opponent's that will question him on different issues relating to all of his flaws as a character.

I have a feeling the guy Goku is facing is going to be some type of justice-based character.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by TheMathemagician » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:57 pm

Luke Groundwalker wrote:I'm really jumping on board with this theory as well. Now, I'm not suggesting Goku is maliciously evil or anything, but I have a feeling he's going to technically be the antagonist of this arc rather than Goku fighting against an antagonist as traditional roles. I think Goku is going to go through multiple opponent's that will question him on different issues relating to all of his flaws as a character.

I have a feeling the guy Goku is facing is going to be some type of justice-based character.
Well I mean whoever Goku fights against is an antagonist, since they are his (and Universe 7's antagonists). But the saga could paint Goku as a villain without him having any actual malicious intent. I agree it would be great if that happened.
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Luke Groundwalker » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:00 am

TheMathemagician wrote:
Luke Groundwalker wrote:I'm really jumping on board with this theory as well. Now, I'm not suggesting Goku is maliciously evil or anything, but I have a feeling he's going to technically be the antagonist of this arc rather than Goku fighting against an antagonist as traditional roles. I think Goku is going to go through multiple opponent's that will question him on different issues relating to all of his flaws as a character.

I have a feeling the guy Goku is facing is going to be some type of justice-based character.
Well I mean whoever Goku fights against is an antagonist, since they are his (and Universe 7's antagonists). But the saga could paint Goku as a villain without him having any actual malicious intent. I agree it would be great if that happened.
Well yeah that's true. What I meant is that Goku would play the traditional role of the antagonist. In Dragonball each main antagonist is known for wrecking a bunch of characters until one final battle. This happened with every villain up to Zamasu. What I think is that we might get an inverse of that with Goku wrecking a bunch of opponents, getting new techniques, gaining strength, until the very end when he gets defeated by a good guy.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by TheMathemagician » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:02 am

Luke Groundwalker wrote:
TheMathemagician wrote:
Luke Groundwalker wrote:I'm really jumping on board with this theory as well. Now, I'm not suggesting Goku is maliciously evil or anything, but I have a feeling he's going to technically be the antagonist of this arc rather than Goku fighting against an antagonist as traditional roles. I think Goku is going to go through multiple opponent's that will question him on different issues relating to all of his flaws as a character.

I have a feeling the guy Goku is facing is going to be some type of justice-based character.
Well I mean whoever Goku fights against is an antagonist, since they are his (and Universe 7's antagonists). But the saga could paint Goku as a villain without him having any actual malicious intent. I agree it would be great if that happened.
Well yeah that's true. What I meant is that Goku would play the traditional role of the antagonist. In Dragonball each main antagonist is known for wrecking a bunch of characters until one final battle. This happened with every villain up to Zamasu. What I think is that we might get an inverse of that with Goku wrecking a bunch of opponents, getting new techniques, gaining strength, until the very end when he gets defeated by a good guy.
You mean potentially the alien looking dude? I will say this, if done right, it could be great with the payoff looking amazing. However there'll definitely be people complaining about Goku wrecking most of his opponents throughout the tournament. Regardless, it'd be an interesting take on it. I don't think it's very likely he'll curbstomp until the end and lose, but I really hope he gets painted as the antagonist to every other universe, and as a result other universe are out for Universe 7. I'm very interested in Goku's character this saga, as well as the people he'll fight.
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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by HeroR » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:14 am

TheMathemagician wrote: You mean potentially the alien looking dude? I will say this, if done right, it could be great with the payoff looking amazing. However there'll definitely be people complaining about Goku wrecking most of his opponents throughout the tournament. Regardless, it'd be an interesting take on it. I don't think it's very likely he'll curbstomp until the end and lose, but I really hope he gets painted as the antagonist to every other universe, and as a result other universe are out for Universe 7. I'm very interested in Goku's character this saga, as well as the people he'll fight.
Ever universe will be antagonist towards each other since they can be only one winner and death to the loser.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Goku becoming Evil

Post by Nano » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:10 am

This is some ssdd shit with Goku.

Goku wants to fight new fighters. His mentality is literally, "Fuck any and everyone. It'll all work itself out in the end. No worries. What's the worse that could happen?! As long as I get to fight. That's all that matters."

Inb4 how can I say that? He was warned. And even threatened.

Except this time he's playing with fire while wearing gasoline drawls with dynamite skid marks.

That scene where Beerus put his hand up is one of, if not, my favorite scene of Super so far.
I love Dragon Ball so much that I'm constantly complaining about how horrible Super is.

Black Goku / Future Trunks saga... was/is garbage.

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