I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Simere » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:16 pm

TBMx wrote:Don't you just love how when asked about what his wish is by Ribrienne, he doesn't say to bring the erased back. It's some selfish wish like meeting another strong guy.

The special was an achievement in animation and nothing more. The story was just the same Goku worship we've seen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by TBMx » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:29 pm

Simere wrote:
TBMx wrote:Don't you just love how when asked about what his wish is by Ribrienne, he doesn't say to bring the erased back. It's some selfish wish like meeting another strong guy.

The special was an achievement in animation and nothing more. The story was just the same Goku worship we've seen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?
Reviews are a thing. Only thing I saw was a three minute clip of the animation of the ultra instinct.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:07 pm

Goku saying he didn't know what he was going to wish just sounded like him being facetious to me. "What are you going to wish for?" "Oh, I dunno. Stuff. Maybe something for my wife or kids." He was even fiddling with a rock when he did like he wasn't thinking about it. He's free to use the Dragon Balls for selfish things pretty much whenever he wants and he never has before. I don't think he'll start now.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:13 pm

Also if Goku does have an important Wish in mind, like bringing back the erased, there is no reason for him to unload this information on Ribrianne of all people. Especially since it seems like anyone could overhear him. People in the stands have heard people in the ring talking before.
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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by lancerman » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:24 am

Goku in Dragon Ball was a fully fleshed out character that organically evolved.

Goku in Dragon Ball Z was a glorified plot device.

Goku in Dragon Ball GT was basically Luffy from one piece or any other generic shonen character except in child Goku's body.

Goku in Dragon Ball Super is a real character who sometimes borderlines on parody.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by KidGoku>3 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:12 pm

Abra kadabra wrote:Bump. I think this is very relevant with how much screentime and focus he's been receiving in the current arc. Every other character is wallpaper. Powered up but wallpaper none the less. It's Goku time all over again. At least in Z Goku wasn't the focus until he is shoehorned in to save the day and the jobbers.
Anyone that hates Goku is not a real DB fan. That much I am certain of.
How can you hate the very thing you grew up with as a kid ? Watching that little chubby kid go through so many adventures. Before all the power nonsense or other characters. When it was just Goku and his friends and their adventures. I bet you would've hated that series even more considering kid Goku killed people and it was about him more so than Z or even Super.

I think 99% of the people who hate Goku hate him simply because they aren't really DB fans but fans of a specific character. Be that Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo or whatever. So the whole reasons they come up with is just a facade to cover up the real ''selfish'' reasons they hate him. To me that's not what a real DB fan is about. If you hate Goku you hate DB.

TBMx wrote:
Yedis wrote:
Conveniently ignored him saying he'd wish for something for Gohan/Goten first.

Also almost every character who stated their wish, was for something selfish.
That wish isn't any better. Countless lives vs something for his sons. Hmm. Derp.
What have you done to help out others in need today ? I bet nothing. And at least yours is real life. Not fiction. I find this criticism very hypocritical.

You're critisizing a fictional character about something so trivial. Goku is not a saint. That's not HIS responsibility. He already gave other universes a chance to fight for their existence anyway more than anyone else. He doesn't owe them anything.For years people said Goku doesn't care about anyone else, not even his family and friends. Yet we saw Goku's love for Roshi, he didn't care about fighting 1 bit instead rushed to help Roshi. A very selfless act. Then his wish tells us he puts Chi Chi, his wife and kids 1st place with that wish. Showing how much he cares. He has done more to save others than anyone else combined in all of DB. Yet you still have the audacity to criticisize him after all of these things ?

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:21 pm

KidGoku>3 wrote:Anyone that hates Goku is not a real DB fan.
What kind of argument is this?

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Jigurashi » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:13 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
KidGoku>3 wrote:Anyone that hates Goku is not a real DB fan.
What kind of argument is this?
Lol this. I love the guy this saga but it's utterly laughable to make a statement like that.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:35 am

KidGoku>3 wrote:How can you hate the very thing you grew up with as a kid ?
I don't. I hate current Goku. Classic Goku is a precious treasure. :P
I bet you would've hated that series even more considering kid Goku killed people and it was about him more so than Z or even Super.
But Goku sparing villains for his own selfish reasons is one of the things a lot of people don't like about Goku from Z-onward, so why do you think people would hate him killing? Also I'm sick of this myth that DB supposedly wanked Goku more than DBS does. DB has crowning moments for most of the characters and the side cast even contributed greatly when Goku was the center of attention. Super on the other hand is constantly actively trying to make characters such as Gohan, Piccolo, and Tenshinhan look like weak losers who should step aside while the gods fight.
We saw Goku's love for Roshi, he didn't care about fighting 1 bit instead rushed to help Roshi. A very selfless act.
That's very true. The problem though is that I wish he was like this more often in Super. He's usually a pretty self centered guy here and tends to only really care about his own amusement, even at the cost of others.
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saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Bullza » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:48 am

Simere wrote:Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?
That's something that people will say to try and make a point.

It's never something they actually do. I've seen countless people on here say they've stopped watching and yet they comment in the episode threads the next week anyway.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by HeroR » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:12 am

Bullza wrote:
Simere wrote:Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?
That's something that people will say to try and make a point.

It's never something they actually do. I've seen countless people on here say they've stopped watching and yet they comment in the episode threads the next week anyway.
It's like the people who hate Twilight, yet still read the books and watched the movies.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:29 am

HeroR wrote:
Bullza wrote:
Simere wrote:Didn't you say you were done with Super and weren't going to watch anymore?
That's something that people will say to try and make a point.

It's never something they actually do. I've seen countless people on here say they've stopped watching and yet they comment in the episode threads the next week anyway.
It's like the people who hate Twilight, yet still read the books and watched the movies.
Not quite the same there. That's usually just from a love of picking apart and making jokes of things you don't like. For instance, I find Sword Art Online to be an absolutely awful series, but I eagerly await each new part because I like riffing and memeing it with friends. It's also the reason Neo Yokio has so many people watching it and why movies like The Room are so popular.
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Chris Sabat wrote:#YamchaForever
saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:59 am

Say what you want, Goku was awesome in 109-110. He was SERIOUS, he was BADASS, he was the Goku we love.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Zagacious » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:07 pm

His characterization for most of the series has been pretty terrible, yes, but it's definitely improving. The main complaint I have recently is that almost every episode he's been in the ToP he was unnecessary to be involved in, except for the fight against Trio De Dangers there was almost no reason for him to get involved in any of the fights he was involved in, and it took away greatly from moments of other characters.

I'm wondering if maybe the series is making him look more evil to fit into his new form, since part of the translation literally means selfish, it could mean that mentally when he gets this new form Ultra Instinct he sort of loses control, he's just in a killer mode where his friends might be in danger if they get in the way, kind of like what Oozaru is (although obviously Ultra Instinct is not related to Saiyans) where it's very powerful but dangerous, only now on a godly level of dangerous. I was starting to get hints of this when they developed SS3, (and SS4 to some degree) where they start to get so powerful they cannot control their destructiveness to a degree.

It would be an interesting development to see Goku have to learn to control himself and not go on a killing rampage or destroy whole planets when he's first learning this new form, which makes sense when we're starting to get fighters on this level of power that they would need to learn greater control to maintain it.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by BWri » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Zagacious wrote:His characterization for most of the series has been pretty terrible, yes, but it's definitely improving. The main complaint I have recently is that almost every episode he's been in the ToP he was unnecessary to be involved in, except for the fight against Trio De Dangers there was almost no reason for him to get involved in any of the fights he was involved in, and it took away greatly from moments of other characters.
Yeah, that's the problem here. Goku is at his best (most fun to watch) when he's fighting someone who's legitimately at his level or above it. If he's sandbagging someone, then there is little point in seeing that scene unless it's in another context than him being in physical danger, because we know he isn't. Him training Caulifla is more interesting than him sandbagging Jimeze, Ribrianne, Maji Kayo, etc. But that is the problem, there isn't much going for his character besides fighting, and if he isn't learning from or teaching, or just effortlessly defeating people weaker than him, there's little interest to those fights of his that aren't against people like Jiren or Hit.

Toriyama honestly had it right in Z. Let the Z team do most of the fighting and bring Goku in to defeat the main antagonist. They don't have to keep him off screen as much as they did in Z, but he isn't needed in every single episode unless it actually pertains to him. Or just expand his character so that he does have more to do in the plot other than just fight and be way stronger than every one else.
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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by HeroR » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:48 pm

Zagacious wrote:His characterization for most of the series has been pretty terrible, yes, but it's definitely improving. The main complaint I have recently is that almost every episode he's been in the ToP he was unnecessary to be involved in, except for the fight against Trio De Dangers there was almost no reason for him to get involved in any of the fights he was involved in, and it took away greatly from moments of other characters.

I'm wondering if maybe the series is making him look more evil to fit into his new form, since part of the translation literally means selfish, it could mean that mentally when he gets this new form Ultra Instinct he sort of loses control, he's just in a killer mode where his friends might be in danger if they get in the way, kind of like what Oozaru is (although obviously Ultra Instinct is not related to Saiyans) where it's very powerful but dangerous, only now on a godly level of dangerous. I was starting to get hints of this when they developed SS3, (and SS4 to some degree) where they start to get so powerful they cannot control their destructiveness to a degree.

It would be an interesting development to see Goku have to learn to control himself and not go on a killing rampage or destroy whole planets when he's first learning this new form, which makes sense when we're starting to get fighters on this level of power that they would need to learn greater control to maintain it.
So Goku being in 105 took something away from Roshi? And what did Goku take away in 107 and 108? What did he take in 100 and 101?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Bardo117 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Rorschach has a terrible and wrong way of dealing with criminals, yet he is still the best.
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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by HeroR » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:02 pm

BWri wrote:
Zagacious wrote:His characterization for most of the series has been pretty terrible, yes, but it's definitely improving. The main complaint I have recently is that almost every episode he's been in the ToP he was unnecessary to be involved in, except for the fight against Trio De Dangers there was almost no reason for him to get involved in any of the fights he was involved in, and it took away greatly from moments of other characters.
Yeah, that's the problem here. Goku is at his best (most fun to watch) when he's fighting someone who's legitimately at his level or above it. If he's sandbagging someone, then there is little point in seeing that scene unless it's in another context than him being in physical danger, because we know he isn't. Him training Caulifla is more interesting than him sandbagging Jimeze, Ribrianne, Maji Kayo, etc. But that is the problem, there isn't much going for his character besides fighting, and if he isn't learning from or teaching, or just effortlessly defeating people weaker than him, there's little interest to those fights of his that aren't against people like Jiren or Hit.

Toriyama honestly had it right in Z. Let the Z team do most of the fighting and bring Goku in to defeat the main antagonist. They don't have to keep him off screen as much as they did in Z, but he isn't needed in every single episode unless it actually pertains to him. Or just expand his character so that he does have more to do in the plot other than just fight and be way stronger than every one else.
No he didn’t. Goku was just a plot device in Z and turned the story into ‘wait for Goku’. Goku in Super is an actual character regardless if you like him or not and no one is going ‘where’s Goku’ every five minutes.

And I personally enjoy Goku fighting fodder like the Ginyu Force because Goku in general is fun to watch.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:19 pm

Jigurashi wrote:
mfwlegend3 wrote:
KidGoku>3 wrote:Anyone that hates Goku is not a real DB fan.
What kind of argument is this?
Lol this. I love the guy this saga but it's utterly laughable to make a statement like that.
Considering DB is basically the story of Gokus life, I actually think its okay to question why someone who doesnt like Goku would watch a show that is about Goku.

Obviously its allowed, obviously it happens, but I personally cant see why either.
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Re: I find Goku to be the worst character in this show

Post by Whatever » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:01 pm

HeroR wrote:
No he didn’t. Goku was just a plot device in Z and turned the story into ‘wait for Goku’. Goku in Super is an actual character regardless if you like him or not and no one is going ‘where’s Goku’ every five minutes.

And I personally enjoy Goku fighting fodder like the Ginyu Force because Goku in general is fun to watch.
That was the case for the freeza saga,nobody waited for him in the cell and buu saga even if he ended up saving the day anyways.
The reason nobody is going 'where's Goku' every 5 minutes its because he is almost everywhere and in every episode,he had no reason to be in Hit's episode for example but he was there anyways.
I don't understand how you enjoy seeing Goku fight someone who is no challenge to him,unless you liked the GT formula where Goku defeats everyone,the main villains and the minions.

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