Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Asura
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1919
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Asura » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:56 pm

This is something I've never understood and still can't make sense of no matter how hard I try to rationalize it. We learn in the Buu saga that there were 5 Supreme Kais. One for each of the four quadrants, plus the "leader" (or whatever he was called). We know that four of them (including the leader) were absorbed by Buu, leaving only the East Supreme Kai, aka Shin.

Fast-forward to Super, and things seem to become super confusing. We learn that Beerus has a life-link to Shin. If one dies, the other dies. The question is, why Shin? Was it just Shin, or was the life-link to all 5 Supreme Kais, and since Shin is the only one remaining of the five, hence if he goes, Beerus goes? If this is true, does Beerus also have some sort of link to Majin Buu? The other Supreme Kais are still absorbed by him afterall, but then what about Elder Kai? He precedes Shin, so why wouldn't the life-link be with Elder Kai instead?

To make matters even more confusing with this "5 Supreme Kai" ordeal, we now see that every other universe only has one Supreme Kai. So what was the deal with Universe 7? Why did we have 5? Do you think this fact was just forgotten about and retconned in Super? Do you think it will ever come up again, or do you think the show will continue to treat Shin as if he always was the only Supreme Kai of Universe 7?

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13979
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:02 pm

My theory is that Zeno decided to have each universe with one Kaioshin after he hear what happen in Universe 7. It makes it easier for each universe.
PS4 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
MAL Profile: http://myanimelist.net/profile/Hellspawn28
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/GS27/

User avatar
Psykomatik
Regular
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:37 am

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Psykomatik » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:06 pm

Or perhaps it's the only universe who's working with north / east / south / west?
Or Toriyama forgot?

User avatar
Araki
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1453
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:54 am

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Araki » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:15 pm

Asura wrote:The other Supreme Kais are still absorbed by him afterall, but then what about Elder Kai? He precedes Shin, so why wouldn't the life-link be with Elder Kai instead?
I don't think it's that problematic. Shin is supposed to be the current one, and if not for Gohan the Elder would be gone forever, so the life-link was handled to him somehow, the moment he took the position. I mean, we don't know how exactly it works, but it seems to me to be more of a hierarchical than biological matter.

As for the 5 Supreme Kai from the past, that was long, long ago, when maybe more universes used to have multiple Supreme Kais. We have no idea about the history of other universes yet, so it's plain wrong to call it a retcon or whatever. As long as all 12 of them have one, main Supreme Kai as the representative in the present, who cares?

User avatar
Makai
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:15 pm

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Makai » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:59 pm

I have two theories:

1. Every universe does have 5 kaioshins, but we only saw the Grand Kaioshin of each universe.

Or

2. We know Universe 7 was one of the lowest level Universes, so perhaps it needed a higher number of Kaioshins than the higher level Universes?

Kishido
Banned
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:57 am

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Kishido » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:11 pm

Or maybe... back than there was no Beerus in Toriyamas mind and the whole link stuff.

User avatar
mAcChaos
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by mAcChaos » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:19 pm

It could just be completely random, ie, how many fruit fall that become Supreme Kais, and U7 just happened to have five way back when.
[i]"I have yet to show you, young warrior, what I'm truly capable of."[/i] - Cell

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 3225
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:48 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:My theory is that Zeno decided to have each universe with one Kaioshin after he hear what happen in Universe 7. It makes it easier for each universe.
I like this. Perhaps all of them had more than one Kaioshin in each and Zeno decided there were too much.

precita
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by precita » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:17 pm

Makai wrote:I have two theories:

1. Every universe does have 5 kaioshins, but we only saw the Grand Kaioshin of each universe.
I think this is the case. The Supreme Kai's were seeing at this tournament are the Grand Kaioshins of each universe, not the 4 Supreme Kai's who govern the quardrants.

So if Buu never killed the Kai's, then Shin wouldn't be here and we'd see the Grand Kaioshin instead.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11376
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:23 pm

I don't think the previous Kaioshin system has been forgotten (certainly not by Toyotaro anyway), but I do think it's being retconned for simplicity. Having a single Kaioshin just removes excess clutter and makes things easier when it comes to having to create all these new designs.

As for why Universe 7 had 5 of them, at this point I chalk it up to Beerus if I have to give it some sort of explanation. His Universe is the second lowest in terms of Human/Mortal Level, probably because he doesn't really do his job. He's often sleeping for long periods and destroys whatever he wants based on his mood, rather than specifically trying to wipe out evil or other low-level beings. It's also mentioned that the Kaioshin have no idea how much Beerus will destroy when he's awake. So perhaps Universe 7 employed extra Kaioshin to balance that, allowing them a better chance of creating more high-level life and being able to TRY and stand against threats like Boo when then arise.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
RedRibbonSoldier#42
Regular
Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:37 am

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:29 pm

weren't there multiple kaioushin from universe 6 at the tournament?

User avatar
Lord Frieza
I Live Here
Posts: 3698
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Lord Frieza » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:33 pm

Well Zen-Oh says there are too many universe at the moment. Maybe sometime after Buu's first rampage, Zen-Oh decided that 5 kaioshin to run a universe was to many as well and decided to cut it down.

Shin seems to do an ok job by himself in the grand scheme of things even if he's not all that strong, that could have been proof enough for Zen chan.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11376
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:39 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:weren't there multiple kaioushin from universe 6 at the tournament?
No. Only the short, round one is a Kaioshin. The tall, skinny one is an assistant like Kibito.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
kinisking
I Live Here
Posts: 4987
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:21 pm
Location: United States.

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by kinisking » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:54 pm

My head canon is they adopted 4 from the 6 destroyed universes. The other 2 went to other universes.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.

User avatar
simtek34
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:40 pm
Location: Mount Paozu (Twin Cities, MN)
Contact:

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by simtek34 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:30 am

Either Zeno killed all of them, or the one who came is the Grand Kaioshin from all the Universes
Xbox Live: PlushGerm24109
Everywhere else: simtek34

User avatar
Beek King
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:41 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Beek King » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:56 am

My worthless headcanon tells me that each universe simply chose a representative Kaioshin and the existence of others is still up in the air because of Japanese language's lack of plurals.
Do whatever you like, ghost.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20671
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:40 am

precita wrote:
Makai wrote:I have two theories:

1. Every universe does have 5 kaioshins, but we only saw the Grand Kaioshin of each universe.
I think this is the case. The Supreme Kai's were seeing at this tournament are the Grand Kaioshins of each universe, not the 4 Supreme Kai's who govern the quardrants.

So if Buu never killed the Kai's, then Shin wouldn't be here and we'd see the Grand Kaioshin instead.
That's the theory I'm rolling with, too.

User avatar
MagmonKai
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 813
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by MagmonKai » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:37 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
precita wrote:
Makai wrote:I have two theories:

1. Every universe does have 5 kaioshins, but we only saw the Grand Kaioshin of each universe.
I think this is the case. The Supreme Kai's were seeing at this tournament are the Grand Kaioshins of each universe, not the 4 Supreme Kai's who govern the quardrants.

So if Buu never killed the Kai's, then Shin wouldn't be here and we'd see the Grand Kaioshin instead.
That's the theory I'm rolling with, too.
But why werent there any other supreme kais in Universe 10? All we saw was Gowasu and Zamasu. I'm sticking with Universe 7 is a unique case since its the one our story is told from.

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5697
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:37 pm

But if the ones we are seeing are Dai Kaioshins, why they haven't been labeled as such so far? "Dai Kaioshin" is a name never mentioned in Dragon Ball Super at all.

User avatar
GodVegetto91
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Why was Universe 7 the only universe with 5 Supreme Kais?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:01 pm

Well i think the biggest problem of all is the life link between Beerus and our generation Shin specifically. It was revealed that Beerus was affraid "Shin" might die, however Elder Kai is still around. Considering Beerus was around during the time Elder Kai was in duty, shouldn't his life link apply to him aswell? Why just Shin? I think it would be better if the Life Link should apply to the last Kaioshin to stay alive. I.E kill all of them and Beerus dies, and have 1 of the 5 surivive and Beerus is still fine. (Doesn't matter who)

As for the other universes only having 1 Kaioshin, this could easily be explained, both from an in-universe perspective, aswell as an out of universe perspective. In-universe: Universe 7 was unique among them in that it has 5 Kaioshins. Out of universe: Toriyama either forgot, or simply retconned it. (Which seems more likely)
“The fool looks to God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

Post Reply