Why are people complaining about Universe 6 Saiyans??

[Lujin_16]

They complain how different the transformation is and how easy it was for them, especially in Facebook (posts/conversations/comments?) so what do you think about that??

I feel like some people are never happy with Dragonball Super and that's really sad. I mean, I don't complain about it because for me it makes sense: they are from universe 6 and (are) different Saiyans; they are not bad Saiyans like Planet Vegeta Saiyans in universe 7.

I think it is the nostalgia of some people who complain about how amazing the transformation was back then with anger and screaming (for) 10 minutes, but man let it go.

[Nekis13]

I'd say to not worry about it. You'll see people everywhere complaining and having different opinions than you. Just enjoy what you enjoy.

Edit: As for the Saiyans. They're pretty damn cool! Caulifla's transformation bothers me a little bit but not enough to rant about it.

[Shinda Forever]

I think they all suck badly in every sense and they are taking screen time from Hitto and Frost the two most interesting characters in U6.
Regarding the new method to transform, it was ridiculous specially Caulifla going to ssj 2 so easily making all the hard work made by the other saiyans in U7 as something useless. Basically, they are much better than Goku and Vegeta who had to train incredibly hard and tons of years to reach ssj2. Caulifla could beat Cell without any special training after learning this new trick making him and the other saiyans look weak as hell. Just imagine, if she trains in the rosat and with Vados, she would become ssj blue in 24 hours.

[Asura]

for me it makes sense they are from universum 6 and different saiyans they are not bad saiyans like planet vegeta saiyans in universe 7

It might make sense to you, but for us (at least for me) it's a very poor excuse to cover up lazy/rushed writing. I was fine with the back itch thing as stupid as it was because I understand that a transformation via anger would be hard to show with these brand new characters, but the SSJ2 Caulifla thing went too far.

And you're right, it is nostalgia. Nostalgia for some sensible and satisfying writing regarding transformations that is, which Super has yet to receive.

[The gr]

It was hard to read op due of the lack of puntuaction​

my problem with the u6 Saiyan,is how lame t, let me put a list

-the tingly back thing is stupid

-Cabba is boring and kale is just broly with breast and caulifa is slightly better than Cabba and Kale but still she ehhh and who can forget,that caulifa pull a ss2 out of nowhere,I think she's worse than Goten and trunks

Like Nekis13 said, everyone here have different opinions,if you enjoy the u6 Saiyan, don't let the criticism ruin your enjoyment

[Chuquita]

I'm not that bothered by them. I do wish they weren't so skinny though. I've seen some amazing fanart of the universe 6 saiyans with body builds more similar to universe 7 saiyans (think saiyan arc and namek arc Toriyama body builds) and I prefer that styling so much more than what we have.

[iamthelaw7]

It might make sense to you, but for us (at least for me) it's a very poor excuse to cover up lazy/rushed writing.

This. I like that they are making the other universes powerful and casting doubt on how U7 can win. But they really could have done something a little more creative to power up the U6 saiyans. Maybe have Caulifla go SSJ2 at the tournament instead. Or just have Caulifla go SSJ2 on her first try instead of SSJ, so we don't have to question how she reached the next transformation. But yeah, I don't have a problem with the U6 saiyans, I just wanted better explanations for their power ups.

[Basaku]

There hasn't been enough care/thought/effort put into them, that's why. Cabba has little-to-none character or personality, Caulifla gets new form every 5 seconds for no reason and Kale's LSSJ is literally reanimating Broly movie scenes. Feels too often like a lazy effort in multiple aspects which is a shame because I enjoy what little unique stuff about them there is and I think they have a great potential but it's not well utilized so far.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I dislike them for their character designs generally. I'm not even sure how old they are supposed to be but all look like chibi 12 year olds.

[TysonWine]

Stale personalities and nonsensical power ups seem like valid complaints, with the power ups being a bigger issue in my eyes. Sometimes writers write themselves into a hole, and have to pull themselves out, but they didn't even try. The idea of Universe 6 Saiyans being wet behind the ears should've never been a thing. Cabba should've never happened. In the Universe 6 arc, the Saiyan or Saiyans that were introduced should've already had SSJ forms, and should've gave the impression that their battle experience rivaled our Saiyans. Cabba was an extremely weak choice, both literally and figuratively, to be the first Universe 6 Saiyan we were introduced to. More seasoned warriors who were introduced with the necessary power to compete would've negated the power level travesties we've recently been shown. They also could've been rivals for Universe 7. Imagine Vegeta finding out that Kakarot isn't the only Saiyan he had to surpass to become #1.

My idea of a Universe 6 Saiyan: You have a SSJ who instead of fighting Vegeta in the Universe 6 tournament fights Piccolo. He or she losses. This Saiyan has never lost a battle to a Namekian or any race other than their own for that matter. He or she takes this to heart, and upon seeing SSJ Blue is motivated to further increase his or her's power. In the year or so its been since the Universe 6 tournament, that Saiyan has been training, and upon hearing of the TOP, chuckles at the idea of being able to show off their new power. This Saiyan enters the TOP with a new form...

Now I just came up with that in 5 minutes. Lets see here...
- SSJ (Scrapped that nonsense of there never being a SSJ in that universe)
- Takes pride in their race and never losing to non Saiyans (A little personality)
- Wants to test their new strength against Piccolo, the non Saiyan who beat them (Motivation. And oh look, a storyline for Piccolo)
- Over a year has gone by (A more appropriate period of time for a warrior who's already on the brink to achieve a new form)

I know, not the greatest idea ever, but compared to Cabba, female Broly, and "I'm stupid powerful because I'm a genius," we might've been better off.

[Zagacious]

Cabba's was handled very well I'd say, the other two were extremely rushed. It cheapens the characters and their transformations if there is no buildup or anything.

Cabba Going SS
A Saiyan who is naturally very powerful, but has not heard of SS. He is fighting off an opponent possibly 1000x or more stronger than him (SSB Vegeta) who is telling him that he will destroy his planet. This is completely justifiable that he is able to go SS under this stress, especially when Vegeta is basically guiding him.

Caulifla/Kale
Then we have Caulifla.. grunts for a few seconds, focuses energy in her back, and becomes SSJ. Being a 'battle genius' cannot justify anything, pretty much every character we've had can be considered a battle genius.
Kale struggled, but still got irrationally angry for a few seconds and went LSSJ. This was handled a lot better than Caulifla's.. but becoming an exact copy of Broly kind of ruined it.

Now how do you compare these at all to how Cabba went SSJ.. I don't see it at all, they are drastically different. One has reasonable buildup, the other two do not. They are definitely strong enough to become SSJ, it was just way too rushed and no build up, like they are doing some incredibly common move that they've known for years.Then to top it off Caulifla goes SSJ2.. in probably a time span of an hour or less she has gone SSJ and SSJ2. It's not as if Caulifla was exactly struggling against LSSJ Kale either.. so going SSJ2 for that battle IMO is not really justified either, it wasn't a real battle. I was hoping they would actually struggle to fight LSSJ Kale, but it was basically like there was no battle, Caulifla just dominated effortlessly.

Goten and Trunks going SSJ was not all that ridiculous, in respect to the many things that happened before it:
Goten and Trunks explanation was that they were half saiyans and get power much easier / have more potential. The whole end of Cell saga was trying to prove this by having Gohan and FT stronger than Goku and Vegeta respectively, so Goten and Trunks was hardly just out of nowhere for the sake of the plot like they are doing now.

There were also a few scenes in the Great Saiyaman saga where young Trunks (Not FT) was shown watching Vegeta come out of training in SS form. Trunks was not surprised by this. This leads to a possible conclusion that he has seen his father in SS many times, possibly for years, making it much easier for Trunks to get it and train it to Goten. When Gohan or someone else mentions that they went SS, Vegeta already knows.

Headcanon reason:
It also makes some sense with how power works in this universe, that Goku and Vegeta would hand down some power capabilities to their sons. If Ki/Energy is a real thing in this universe, then it would make some sense that a new born energy body (Goten/Trunks) who is based on an incredibly strong parent, would be born naturally stronger than if was just born of another random Saiyan.

[MagmonKai]

Stale personalities and nonsensical power ups seem like valid complaints, with the power ups being a bigger issue in my eyes. Sometimes writers write themselves into a hole, and have to pull themselves out, but they didn't even try. The idea of Universe 6 Saiyans being wet behind the ears should've never been a thing. Cabba should've never happened. In the Universe 6 arc, the Saiyan or Saiyans that were introduced should've already had SSJ forms, and should've gave the impression that their battle experience rivaled our Saiyans. Cabba was an extremely weak choice, both literally and figuratively, to be the first Universe 6 Saiyan we were introduced to. More seasoned warriors who were introduced with the necessary power to compete would've negated the power level travesties we've recently been shown. They also could've been rivals for Universe 7. Imagine Vegeta finding out that Kakarot isn't the only Saiyan he had to surpass to become #1.

My idea of a Universe 6 Saiyan: You have a SSJ who instead of fighting Vegeta in the Universe 6 tournament fights Piccolo. He or she losses. This Saiyan has never lost a battle to a Namekian or any race other than their own for that matter. He or she takes this to heart, and upon seeing SSJ Blue is motivated to further increase his or her's power. In the year or so its been since the Universe 6 tournament, that Saiyan has been training, and upon hearing of the TOP, chuckles at the idea of being able to show off their new power. This Saiyan enters the TOP with a new form...

Now I just came up with that in 5 minutes. Lets see here...
- SSJ (Scrapped that nonsense of there never being a SSJ in that universe)
- Takes pride in their race and never losing to non Saiyans (A little personality)
- Wants to test their new strength against Piccolo, the non Saiyan who beat them (Motivation. And oh look, a storyline for Piccolo)
- Over a year has gone by (A more appropriate period of time for a warrior who's already on the brink to achieve a new form)

I know, not the greatest idea ever, but compared to Cabba, female Broly, and "I'm stupid powerful because I'm a genius," we might've been better off.

I like how you think my friend! I posted a similar idea of how I wished the Saiyans had been introduced from U6 with already having learned the SSJ transformation. Instead of being surprised Vegeta's transformation, they would have been like " oh you mean like this?" and transformed not into a golden haired saiyan but a Red haired variant of SSJ3 from the start. That would have been awesome!

[Basaku]

Or even give them SSJ4 design right away, or some brand new design (more toys to sell!) and have this whole "different evolution" simply mean that they trained/evolved/discovered different forms compared to U7, but still had some. But the fact that none of them ever unlocked or 'stumbled' upon any it is just "really... a whole race with uninterrupted history?"

[julianix]

Are you kidding me? People are complaining because we had a golden opportunity to introduce new saiyans and they give us the shy skinny nerd, the rebel chick with an attitude, which happens to secretly like the nerd... but has by tendencies ( she's confused?) ...and then there's the Broly chick. I mean I think that's reason enough to be upset. It's just bad on so many levels.

[perucho1990]

I guess its because people wanted the U6 saiyans to be adults and not kids.

Another thing is that I think Toei screwed up in the cast, Yukana shouldntve been cast as Kale, her shy voice sounds horrible, and it was bad already when she voiced Shirahoshi in OP, its like she tries to sound like Nana Mizuki Hinata but fails imo.

Cabba has the same seiyuu as Steely Dan, who got rekt by Jotaro 3 years ago, and when I listen to Cabba its just Steely Dan for me.

Caulifla is fine, she acts like the typical arrogant kid who thinks she is the best, the proper development for her would be getting humbled in the ToP by a veteran like Goku or Vegeta, or maybe Brianne, who is supposed to be the leader of a Squad.

[VegettoEX]

Are you kidding me? People are complaining because we had a golden opportunity to introduce new saiyans and they give us the shy skinny nerd, the rebel chick with an attitude, which happens to secretly like the nerd... but has by tendencies ( she's confused?) ...and then there's the Broly chick. I mean I think that's reason enough to be upset. It's just bad on so many levels.

You're just saying "it's bad" with a surface-level description and expect people to understand what is "bad" about it and why.

We would please ask everyone to actually go into detail with your responses. If you don't really have anything to say, well, you don't really have anything to say, and there's no conversation to be had. A flowery response with no substance is still a response with no substance.

Quite frankly, I don't see what's "bad" about any of that. So: from your perspective, why is it "bad"?

[julianix]

Are you kidding me? People are complaining because we had a golden opportunity to introduce new saiyans and they give us the shy skinny nerd, the rebel chick with an attitude, which happens to secretly like the nerd... but has by tendencies ( she's confused?) ...and then there's the Broly chick. I mean I think that's reason enough to be upset. It's just bad on so many levels.

You're just saying "it's bad" with a surface-level description and expect people to understand what is "bad" about it and why.

We would please ask everyone to actually go into detail with your responses. If you don't really have anything to say, well, you don't really have anything to say, and there's no conversation to be had. A flowery response with no substance is still a response with no substance.

Quite frankly, I don't see what's "bad" about any of that. So: from your perspective, why is it "bad"?

Number 1. The saiyans of universe 6 are basically humans; nothing about them reminds me of the saiyans we grown to love from universe 7.

Number 2. They introduced a generic lazy cast of characters with personalities we've seen millions of times geared to the likes of 8-12 year olds. The shy nerd, the brat rebel that is confused and then a worse version of Broly. If that's the best they can come up with then that's just straight up lazy.

Number 3. I believe they should of been primarily adults with some trace of warrior spirit. Having teens is fine if done right, look at teen Gohan; the only character in db franchise to surpass Goku in fan popularity.

Number 4. Missed opportunity to introduce interesting characters. I would of liked to see a saiyan race that left planet sadal before their evolution and kept their primitive state, with tails and all. If they were going to do the lssj then improve on Broly with a real motive instead of crying babies or a teen crush. Instead they went backwards and made a worse version of Broly.

Number 5. The transformations..

[GodKaio-Ken]

Are you kidding me? People are complaining because we had a golden opportunity to introduce new saiyans and they give us the shy skinny nerd, the rebel chick with an attitude, which happens to secretly like the nerd... but has by tendencies ( she's confused?) ...and then there's the Broly chick. I mean I think that's reason enough to be upset. It's just bad on so many levels.

You're just saying "it's bad" with a surface-level description and expect people to understand what is "bad" about it and why.

We would please ask everyone to actually go into detail with your responses. If you don't really have anything to say, well, you don't really have anything to say, and there's no conversation to be had. A flowery response with no substance is still a response with no substance.

Quite frankly, I don't see what's "bad" about any of that. So: from your perspective, why is it "bad"?

Number 1. The saiyans of universe 6 are basically humans; nothing about them reminds me of the saiyans we grown to love from universe 7.

Number 2. They introduced a generic lazy cast of characters with personalities we've seen millions of times geared to the likes of 8-12 year olds. The shy nerd, the brat rebel that is confused and then a worse version of Broly. If that's the best they can come up with then that's just straight up lazy.

Number 3. I believe they should of been primarily adults with some trace of warrior spirit. Having teens is fine if done right, look at teen Gohan; the only character in db franchise to surpass Goku in fan popularity.

Number 4. Missed opportunity to introduce interesting characters. I would of liked to see a saiyan race that left planet sadal before their evolution and kept their primitive state, with tails and all. If they were going to do the lssj then improve on Broly with a real motive instead of crying babies or a teen crush. Instead they went backwards and made a worse version of Broly.

Number 5. The transformations..

I mostly agree with this but I think Cabba may be much older than we think based on what we know of him. Which makes it even worse that hes drawn like a 7 year old.

Tell me how hes been managing to fight but his arms are still spaghetti noodles.

[FortuneSSJ]

And you're right, it is nostalgia. Nostalgia for some sensible and satisfying writing regarding transformations that is, which Super has yet to receive.

It's nostalgia mixed with hypocrisy when Goten/kid Trunks had no valid reasons to became SSJ and you conveniently leave that out.

Universe 6 Saiyans were already explained to be different form Universe 7 Saiyans in Champa arc.
Toriyama once said hybrids like Goten/Trunks who born without tails have the biggest potential. U6 Saiyans never had tails to begin with.

There's nothing wrong with new characters we know nothing about unlock SSJ old forms easily. They are already strong in their base forms, they just never had anyone teach them about SSJ forms.

As for the tingly feel on the back, much better to accept than thinking a warrior race in Universe 7 always fighting to live and conquering planets didn't have some Saiyans get angry enough to become SSJ during their lives. Just a legend of one that appears in a millennium which we know turn out to be a joke in the next arcs, when all the other living Saiyans unlocked it.

In Universe 7 we only saw Saiyans from Goku/Vegeta family becoming SSJ. if they want they can say it's all about genetics and could be more different SSJs out there, depending of their family tree.

A Kaioshin inside Goku's body unlocked SS Rose, an unique form just for him.

Fortunately, Caulifla and Kale are and will be more globally liked because they are Saiyans (or better, female Super Saiyans that a lot of people have been asking since forever) and they are entertaining.

[Lord Beerus]

It's all a matter of personal opinion. What you like should be all that matter. Despite that, there are some valid complaints.

I really didn't like how Caulifla attained SSJ2. It was quite botched to be honest. I thought there would be a bit more build up to it, but it just... happened. Thankfully, I'm not invested in the SSJ2 form itself as it doesn't mean shit anymore in-universe. So it doesn't bother me too much, but I still didn't like it. You can handwave this as it is Caulifla is stated to be extremely gifted and talented. So it really shouldn't be much of shock that she can pick up abilities and techniques faster than normal if she has the right incentive and teaching. She's basically U6 version of Son Goku. Once Cabba explained to her how to channel the strength required to become a Super Saiyan, she just needed to power up once into the form before she got the knack of it and could power up innately afterward. It can be stated to be the same deal with how she became a SSJ2. She just tapped into more strength and powered up more.

Cabba... well... he doesn't really intrigue me that much as a character on his own, to be brutally honest. He's the sort of character that works better when he has someone more dynamic in personality to bounce off of.

I think the biggest misdemeanor so far with the Universe 6 Saiyans has been damn near everything about Kale. I felt Kale's attaining her SSJ (LSSJ?) was greatly mishandled. I really didn't like how her lines and actions were identical to that of Broly in his movie debut with the form. Super can get especially annoying with the callbacks and homages, but I was really hoping that the show would differentiate themselves from the Toei movies incarnation of Broly's characterization once he attains the form. But again, you can chalk this up as Kale's transformation being more of a freak accident, in what was for her, extreme circumstances. This is epitomized with the monstrous SSJ form she turned into. But that doesn't excuse the very lazy and phoned-in reference to Broly with Kale's becoming her own version of SSJ.

Despite that being said, I must say that Caulifla is slowly becoming one of my favourite characters in the show. She just carries this aura about her that is so special and entertaining. She's like a hybrid of Kid Goku and Post Majin Boo arc Vegeta with how she's a prodigy at fighting but is also very laid back and not so overbearing with her Saiyan traits that she feel like such a stock character. Her personality is really well balanced. It also helps that her seiyuu is great.

As far as Kale goes... just let Kale be her own character. I know her form makes her look like Broly but she doesn't have to act like him, too. Don't turn Kale into Broly 2.0. Do something unique with the Legendary Super Saiyan form. Take a Jekyll and Hyde direction with her character in regards to her LSSJ form. That would be a lot of fun and a very unique spin on the LSSJ form and Super Saiyan transformations in general. I hope this is just a one time thing and it leads to her character evolving with her better controlling the form and her rage, ala Jekyll and Hyde, as I previously mentioned. But I don't hold that much hope as Toei and Toyotaro love throwbacks and heavy in-universe references.

And for God's sake do something with Cabba. Have him get a girlfriend or a boyfriend or a heterosexual life-partner or a pet. Just somebody or something to pair up with him. Because at his own devices, he just can't carry a story. And Caulifla and Kale, despite having much less screen-time show far more intrigue.

I will say that all three of the U6 Saiyans designs and seiyuus are really good, though.