This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Beerus-sama
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Beerus-sama » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:08 pm

I agree. Recent episodes have been good and showed important events like Freeza joining the team, U6's saiyans training and U4 and 9 scheme against U7 (which I was waiting for since the preview summaries for the 17's episodes). But the episodes that preceded them I think most of the content shown could have been skipped without losing important information. Specially the fights, people went crazy with those :lol:
17's second episode, Tenshinhan and Kame Sennin recruitment, Gohan training, even the exhibition match could be skipped and just have Daishinkan tell the gods which are the universes that are going to participate in a meeting.

I, like OP, have lost interest in this arc because of its padding and like he/she said, its been already 7 months of wait for this. All the information we have got about the tournament could have been said in an episode or two.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zagacious » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:32 pm

Asura wrote:So you're saying you're objectively right and I'm objectively wrong, which is pretty ballsy of you. Also, if they were to remove things, not add them, it would feel rushed. You might think large amounts of nothing happened in episodes 81-89, but it's pretty easy to see why these episodes were important and what they accomplished in regards to the characters and expanding the lore.
No, I specifically said there is objectively less content in the previous recruitment episodes than the last few 91-94, because you keep turning it into this argument of I'm just saying the content is bad or that I don't like it, which I'm not saying at all. I'm saying there is a huge lack of content in these previous recruitment episodes that doesn't justify using an entire episode for it. If you watch each episode and examine each one you can see there are large amounts of time where there is actually nothing happening, not conversation, nothing. This does not occur in the more recent episodes. The idea of these episodes are important, but then the actual episode contains very little content that is actually related to why the episode exists in the first place.
Asura wrote:Zamasu was a boring villain because he wasn't very fleshed out, and people obviously preferred Black because he was more interesting. Also, the padding that was in the FT arc (because there was padding, like you said. There were episodes in which really nothing happened that didn't add to anyone's character, the overall plot, or anything else) could have been better utilized. It didn't feel like it made the arc drag to me, but I just wish it was better utilized. The pacing of the arc still felt rushed though even with that, because the padding didn't help to actually improve the characters or the plot, so the actual plot still felt rushed and needing to be fleshed out.

I think what we're really arguing about here is whether or not we consider this arc to be mostly padding. I say they're important and serve a purpose, you say they're meaningless and can be skipped. I disagree, as the things they touched on in this episode were great and help to build the overall narrative. If we just skimmed through these aspects like the majority of Super has been doing so far, then the lazy writing would only continue, and these arcs brimming with potential would just continue to only be that, potential.
What you mentioned with the Black Goku Arc is a perfect comparison to the early recruitment arc episodes. Sure the episode might contain one significant event, but then the majority of the rest of the episode is just padding. Compare that to the more recent ones where pretty much everything that is happening is important to the story/characters.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Asura » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:06 pm

Beerus-sama wrote:All the information we have got about the tournament could have been said in an episode or two.
So you're telling me you want 17 episodes condensed into one episode or two..? Do you even understand what you're asking for here?

I mean, unless I'm reading you wrong and you only specifically meant the information about the tournament that the Daishinkan gives, but that was already only one or two episodes anyway. In fact, I think all that was covered in the second episode of the arc, so...?
Zagacious wrote:If you watch each episode and examine each one you can see there are large amounts of time where there is actually nothing happening, not conversation, nothing. This does not occur in the more recent episodes. The idea of these episodes are important, but then the actual episode contains very little content that is actually related to why the episode exists in the first place.
Can you actually provide an example of this? I don't remember a single moment in any of these episodes where nothing is happening, not even conversation, aside from stupid shit like the Roshi one where we see him chasing a woman around for 3 minutes.

I felt that just about every episode was filled up with entirely relevant and interesting content.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:52 pm

Asura wrote:Can you actually provide an example of this? I don't remember a single moment in any of these episodes where nothing is happening, not even conversation, aside from stupid shit like the Roshi one where we see him chasing a woman around for 3 minutes.

I felt that just about every episode was filled up with entirely relevant and interesting content.
I don't like that you pair interesting and relevant together as if they're the same thing. Episode 84 is a perfect example of a fun, yet utterly useless episode. It was a retread of the "Kuririn finds himself" concept (The fourth time Super's done this, no less). It was pretty cool, but it'd all have been just as well if we'd had a short conversation wherein Goku called in a favor, or genuinely convinced hi, or something. Other examples of episode with very little content are 85, much of 86, 87, 89, much of 91, at least half of 92. Those are just the obvious ones off the top of my head.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Asura » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:33 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Asura wrote:Can you actually provide an example of this? I don't remember a single moment in any of these episodes where nothing is happening, not even conversation, aside from stupid shit like the Roshi one where we see him chasing a woman around for 3 minutes.

I felt that just about every episode was filled up with entirely relevant and interesting content.
I don't like that you pair interesting and relevant together as if they're the same thing. Episode 84 is a perfect example of a fun, yet utterly useless episode. It was a retread of the "Kuririn finds himself" concept (The fourth time Super's done this, no less). It was pretty cool, but it'd all have been just as well if we'd had a short conversation wherein Goku called in a favor, or genuinely convinced hi, or something. Other examples of episode with very little content are 85, much of 86, 87, 89, much of 91, at least half of 92. Those are just the obvious ones off the top of my head.
I never said or implied interesting and relevant are the same thing. I also don't see how the Krillin episode was a useless episode. It was far more than another "Kuririn finds himself" episode. It was an episode to prove why Krillin belongs on the team and his dynamic with Goku as well as 18, especially since we don't get many moments of them together. You can reduce it to a short conversation, but you could say that about anything. What is that really achieving though aside from taking these moments out that help build upon the character?

85 was an episode that gave us a closer look at the God of Destructions and the Supreme Kais, as well as worldbuilding for Universe 11. It was far from a useless episode and gave us insight as to how the other universes feel about Universe 7, and a closer look at Toppo and the Pride Troopers. There's nothing useless about this episode

86 brought Android 17 back into the fold and had him meet Goku for the first time as well as fight. I don't see how you can consider the majority of that episode useless when most of the episode is Goku's interactions with 17 and re-introducing us to 17 as a character. 87 on the other hand is useless, boring, and serves no purpose. 89 was the Roshi/Tien episode which I agree was terrible and just not handled very well.

91 was a world-building episode that showed us multiple universes. Again, I want to learn about these characters and their universes. If Goku & co. are fighting a bunch of random mooks that we never even get to meet or hear about beforehand, then what is the point? Why get invested in anyone except for U7? 91 is far, far, far from a useless episode. 92 brought the problem of Majin Buu sleeping and what the Z fighters plan to do about it, as well as the introduction of the first ever female Super Saiyan. We also get more world-building with the introduction of Universe 3, and some more scenes fleshing out Toppo and the pride troopers. Very far from a useless episode.

I just don't really see how you can consider a large majority of content in these episodes to be useless or non-essential to the plot. These aren't just episodes in which something important happens for 3 minutes and the rest is filler either, almost every scene serves a purpose to further drive the narrative. Shrinking the content in these episodes down is not possible without trimming some of the important plot elements they create.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by LordCrumb » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:40 pm

Sounds like people want a 'Kai' version of Super already :D

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by precita » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:40 am

Beerus-sama wrote: 17's second episode, Tenshinhan and Kame Sennin recruitment, Gohan training, even the exhibition match could be skipped and just have Daishinkan tell the gods which are the universes that are going to participate in a meeting.
.
So now the exhibition match episodes were filler and padding episodes too? LOL, you guys might as well skip all of Super then but whatever the final fights are in each arc. And this is an example of someone mentioning the Gohan episodes, how was either episode of Gohan unlocking his Ultimate form with Piccolo or the excellent Gohan Vs. Goku episode unimportant? Gohan was treated like a joke in Super and we'd have no idea why he gotten so strong again without those episodes.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:25 am

LordCrumb wrote:Sounds like people want a 'Kai' version of Super already :D
It's not even near a point where it justifies that, thank God. It's a little annoying, but not unwatchable by any means.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:18 pm

LordCrumb wrote:Sounds like people want a 'Kai' version of Super already :D
It's only because Super is ongoing weekly, people feel this way. Once your able to binge this cour mini recruitment arc will fly by. A lot of the international market are getting multiple episodes a week and in turn the show is flying by for them.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:25 pm

Does this thread speak for the manga too?

Because we are in June 2017 and we're still stuck in Future Trunks saga, which is by the same way as the anime, ridiculous. :| One can totally see that the fight in the manga are all a bunch of random and generic moves without a major revelation or some substantial information to the plot. I don't know what's going on but is dragging really necessary? Haven't Toriyama finished yet or doesn't he have enough of outline of the new saga to provide to Toei and Toriyama?

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by MisteryOne » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:34 pm

Grimlock wrote:Does this thread speak for the manga too?

Because we are in June 2017 and we're still stuck in Future Trunks saga, which is by the same way as the anime, ridiculous. :| One can totally see that the fight in the manga are all a bunch of random and generic moves without a major revelation or some substantial information to the plot. I don't know what's going on but is dragging really necessary? Haven't Toriyama finished yet or doesn't he have enough of outline of the new saga to provide to Toei and Toriyama?
Wait. So Zamasu's Kaioshin abilities which he didn't have in the anime, an actual explanation for Rosé, Perfected SSB, Hakai being a move not exclusive to Hakaishins, Merged Zamasu defusing, how the timeline works and why Goku and Vegeta can't just return to tje point of the future when they inmediatly left...Are you saying all of that is generic and doesn't reveal anything? It actually fits with Toriyama's initial comment aboit this arc when he said that a lot of things would be revealed. I don't see why the manga has to be rushed and reduce his quality just because the anime did it. And both products are actually really different so I don't see the issue.

If the manga's fights, specially the ones involving Future and Merged Zamasu, are generic then I don't know what the anime ones are. Is there a word for that in English?
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zagacious » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:09 pm

MisteryOne wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Does this thread speak for the manga too?

Because we are in June 2017 and we're still stuck in Future Trunks saga, which is by the same way as the anime, ridiculous. :| One can totally see that the fight in the manga are all a bunch of random and generic moves without a major revelation or some substantial information to the plot. I don't know what's going on but is dragging really necessary? Haven't Toriyama finished yet or doesn't he have enough of outline of the new saga to provide to Toei and Toriyama?
Wait. So Zamasu's Kaioshin abilities which he didn't have in the anime, an actual explanation for Rosé, Perfected SSB, Hakai being a move not exclusive to Hakaishins, Merged Zamasu defusing, how the timeline works and why Goku and Vegeta can't just return to tje point of the future when they inmediatly left...Are you saying all of that is generic and doesn't reveal anything? It actually fits with Toriyama's initial comment aboit this arc when he said that a lot of things would be revealed. I don't see why the manga has to be rushed and reduce his quality just because the anime did it. And both products are actually really different so I don't see the issue.

If the manga's fights, specially the ones involving Future and Merged Zamasu, are generic then I don't know what the anime ones are. Is there a word for that in English?
Those things existing doesn't mean the rest of the fight wasn't generic and pointless. That sounds a hell of a lot better than what they did in the anime though where pretty much nothing is explained.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:00 pm

Grimlock wrote:Because we are in June 2017 and we're still stuck in Future Trunks saga, which is by the same way as the anime, ridiculous.
That's just because there's only one chapter per month. I'd personally say the manga is a hell of a lot better paced than the anime.

That being said, I don't want people to think I'm trying to downplay the anime simply because I'm criticizing it, because it does have preferable qualities in its own regard. For example, Black's characterization and Rose abilities were quite a bit more detailed in Toei's version of the arc and while I still believe the manga has more overall intrigue, I think both adaptations ultimately bring something good to the table.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Yomi » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:27 am

I think I'd have to disagree with some of this.
It's like people just want bullet-points and nothing else.
When animation is about making each of those bullet points interesting in some way.

Goku recruits Frieza
Frieza joins

Is that what you want? That would be pretty boring and lifeless if ya ask me.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by andrewtuell1991 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:37 am

I have to agree. Shit like Copy Vegeta, 69-76, 83-92, and all the bits of bloat in the main arcs are why I'm sticking with the Super manga even if the one chapter a month thing makes it a little tedious at times. The Super manga at least tries to re-capture the spirit of the original 519 chapter manga series, being a fast paced action series that isn't weighed by tons of pointless garbage. Of all the things to copy from the original DB/DBZ anime series, their horrendous pacing isn't one of them.
precita wrote:By that logic did you guys skip all the Saiyan saga filler episodes, all the episodes Goku was training on his ship to Namek, all the Cell saga training episodes in the time chamber, everything regarding Trunks/Goten practicing fusion, etc?
I know I always do because it's worthless padding not found in the manga and adds nothing of value to the story. It's all just pointless feet-dragging so the anime didn't overtake the manga.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by precita » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:31 pm

Just because something is not in the manga doesn't make it worthless. Filler enchances the story most of the time.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by andrewtuell1991 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:11 pm

precita wrote:Just because something is not in the manga doesn't make it worthless.
Yes it does. The original 519 chapter is a complete story by itself so there's no reason that an anime adaptation couldn't reflect that. If the manga can do without anime original scenes, so can the anime.
Filler enchances the story most of the time.
Staring contests, episode long power-ups, and pointless sideplots aren't enhancements.

Minor nitpick: anime original stories =/= filler. Filler is just anything that doesn't move the plot forward and even the manga has bits and pieces of that.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:35 pm

I like the longer wait for the Tournament because it gives us more development on everyone instead just rushing things out.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:44 pm

Well we finally made it

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by superfan2024 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:45 pm

This thread is pretty much useless now that we're going to the arena next episode with the tournament most likely starting on episode 97. And this is another filler/padding issue thread, now that the tournament's starting, we wouldn't have to worry about it as much.

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