This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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SSJ YUSUKE
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by SSJ YUSUKE » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:04 am

So let me get this straight, people have complaining that the arcs for Super went too fast, now we actually have a saga that is taking it's own time and people are still whining. Beyond the 17 versus the space poachers episode I've found everything to be really good so far, the recruitment is part of the arc, we get to see the characters develop and interact before they are thrown into the tournament and that's really important. It gives the characters more depth, it's been a while, with the exception of future Trunks and maybe Mai, since we've seen characters other than Goku and Vegeta get significant screen time and the fact they have given most of them an episode and focused on their motivations and personalities will really add to their characters once the real fighting starts. And I love the little snippets that we are getting from the other Universes as well.
But I suppose a lot of these younger fans don't have Patience or a significant attention span and are just waiting for the "action" to start regardless of character interactions and development

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by coola » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:02 am

If Kai was someone first Dragon Ball related anime, then i can understand why waiting so long for main event to start can be off-putting for them.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Chuquita » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:05 am

I think it depends on the content. You can move slow as long as the audience finds what you're doing engaging.

I'm not much a fan of this recruitment arc, but if they were taking their time in the Champa arc with Gokû and Vegeta's training in the RoSaT I'd have been glued to that.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zamasu55 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:09 am

It's nof filler my friend. Nothing's filler in Super. For example, during the battle with Goku Black, Goku mentions Copy Vegeta.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:39 am

coola wrote:If Kai was someone first Dragon Ball related anime, then i can understand why waiting so long for main event to start can be off-putting for them.
Kai isn't really super fast paced. It is only fast compared to the original.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:40 am

Zamasu55 wrote:It's nof filler my friend. Nothing's filler in Super. For example, during the battle with Goku Black, Goku mentions Copy Vegeta.
Eh, I disagree. Anything that isn't from Toriyama and is added by Toei to make the series longer can be considered filler.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zamasu55 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:45 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:It's nof filler my friend. Nothing's filler in Super. For example, during the battle with Goku Black, Goku mentions Copy Vegeta.
Eh, I disagree. Anything that isn't from Toriyama and is added by Toei to make the series longer can be considered filler.
Yet Goku mentions Copy Vegeta during the first battle versus SsjR Black and Zamasu.

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dragon boss z
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:55 am

Zamasu55 wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:It's nof filler my friend. Nothing's filler in Super. For example, during the battle with Goku Black, Goku mentions Copy Vegeta.
Eh, I disagree. Anything that isn't from Toriyama and is added by Toei to make the series longer can be considered filler.
Yet Goku mentions Copy Vegeta during the first battle versus SsjR Black and Zamasu.
Ok? You know Toriyama doesn't write the dialog right? The filler arcs are canon to the anime.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Saturnine » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:59 am

Due to the specifics of how Super is made it's difficult to say what's canon and what isn't. But I believe there are things which should and which should not be considered for the purposes of power scaling.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zephyr » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:54 pm

I understand where the OP is coming from, given that we had a very long stretch of inter-arc filler after the Future Trunks arc. And the recruitment section of this arc has indeed gone on for far too long. However, said recruitment has given us a fair share of relatively-solid and worthwhile episodes (86, 88, 91, 93, 94). Moreover, we're now pretty much at the end of it; soon-to-be-obsolete concerns feel rather odd to voice.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by OLKv3 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:00 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:It's nof filler my friend. Nothing's filler in Super. For example, during the battle with Goku Black, Goku mentions Copy Vegeta.
Eh, I disagree. Anything that isn't from Toriyama and is added by Toei to make the series longer can be considered filler.
Yet Goku mentions Copy Vegeta during the first battle versus SsjR Black and Zamasu.
And it affects absolutely nothing. You can remove that line and nothing changes. It's still filler. It's canon, but still filler.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zagacious » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:08 pm

Chuquita wrote:I think it depends on the content. You can move slow as long as the audience finds what you're doing engaging.

I'm not much a fan of this recruitment arc, but if they were taking their time in the Champa arc with Gokû and Vegeta's training in the RoSaT I'd have been glued to that.
If the rest of the recruitment episodes kept the pace,quality, and world/character building of episodes 91-94, barely anyone would be complaining. They cannot even be compared, 84-89 just feel like a waste, something people would probably skip entirely watching the second time around, minus one or two episodes. We didn't learn anything new about the old characters so there wasn't really a good reason to spend an entire episode on each one unless they're going to do that.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by precita » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:43 pm

Eps 84-89 were not a waste at all. Only two episodes were dull.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Asura » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:50 pm

Zagacious wrote:84-89 just feel like a waste, something people would probably skip entirely watching the second time around
Geez, you make it sound like they're the worst episodes ever that people must skip.

This arc so far has gotten a lot more praise from people than any before it, I highly doubt any of these episodes are so bad they're worth skipping, even during a second watch.
Last edited by Asura on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:13 pm

SSJ YUSUKE wrote:people have complaining that the arcs for Super went too fast
Whoever complained that Super of all things went by too FAST doesn't have a very good sense of pacing. The previous arc was ridiculous with the constant back-and-forth time travel.

If anything, the show has been far too slow since day one. I feel that the U6 Tournament actually had the best pacing.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Asura » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:04 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
SSJ YUSUKE wrote:people have complaining that the arcs for Super went too fast
Whoever complained that Super of all things went by too FAST doesn't have a very good sense of pacing. The previous arc was ridiculous with the constant back-and-forth time travel.

If anything, the show has been far too slow since day one. I feel that the U6 Tournament actually had the best pacing.
You're probably the first person I've ever seen claim that Super's pacing is too slow.

If we were to compare Super and Kai:

Super:
BoG arc: 14 episodes
RoF arc: 13 episodes
U6 arc: 13 episodes
Future Trunks arc: 20 episodes

Kai:
Saiyan arc: 26 episodes
Freeza arc: 27 episodes
Android arc: 22 episodes
Cell arc: 20 episodes

So if Super's pacing is too slow for you, just exactly how fast do you want things to be? Should the BoG arc be 7 episodes instead of 14? Should the Universal Survival arc also be 20 episodes like FT was? How would you even cram an entire universal tournament with tons of new characters in to 20 episodes?

Taking it slow and steady only further helps flesh the story and characters out. There's no benefit to be found in rushing and cramming everything into as little episodes as humanly possible.

I know we're living in the age of "I want it and I want it right now", but people need to relax. If I might make a video game comparison, Persona 5 is one of my favorite games of all time. However, it was delayed multiple times. Originally scheduled for a 2014 release, didn't come out until 2016. 2017 for the western version. I can probably say for certain that had they not delayed it the extra 2 - 3 years and just released it early because fans were frustrated and tired of waiting, it would be nowhere near the masterpiece that I believe it is today. The wait paid off, and I hope that the wait will pay off on this arc too.
Last edited by Asura on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Chuquita » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:05 pm

Asura wrote:
Geez, you make it sound like they're the worst episodes ever that people must skip.

This arc so far has gotten a lot more praise from people than any before it, I highly doubt any of these episodes are so bad they're worth skipping, even during a second watch.
Please could you fix the quote code; I'm not the one who said what's in the quote box in your previous post. Zagacious said it, not me.
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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:13 pm

The Zen Exhibition didn't feel like filler at all.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by Zagacious » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:07 pm

Asura wrote:
Zagacious wrote:84-89 just feel like a waste, something people would probably skip entirely watching the second time around
Geez, you make it sound like they're the worst episodes ever that people must skip.

This arc so far has gotten a lot more praise from people than any before it, I highly doubt any of these episodes are so bad they're worth skipping, even during a second watch.
Honestly what good episode did we get out of that span of episodes aside from the decent 17 episode? As I mentioned the quality went up drastically by episode 90, so it's not really an issue any more, but I don't see any reason to watch the ones before that a second time, nothing new was introduced about said characters they chose to spend entire episodes on pre-90. Vegeta's child was born, and we learned Tien has a dojo, and 17 has a family and is a super hero ranger. Those are the only significant events that happened or details revealed in around 8-9 episodes, and those events took up an insignificant amount of time in the actual episodes, usually 1-2 min each.
Asura wrote:So if Super's pacing is too slow for you, just exactly how fast do you want things to be? Should the BoG arc be 7 episodes instead of 14? Should the Universal Survival arc also be 20 episodes like FT was? How would you even cram an entire universal tournament with tons of new characters in to 20 episodes?

Taking it slow and steady only further helps flesh the story and characters out. There's no benefit to be found in rushing and cramming everything into as little episodes as humanly possible..
When someone says the pacing is too slow, they are not talking about specific episode count. The episode span I posted is doing the extreme opposite of what you said, spreading out as little content as possible into as many episodes as possible, which is far worse than an episode having too much content to fully grasp in one watching. It shouldn't be the norm to finish an episode and feel 'that's it?', maybe a few episodes here and there, but when it starts to feel that way every time it can cause people to lose interest, as well as greatly affecting the anticipation for the tournament.

Though, as I said 90+ have gone up way in quality and building up the other universes and characters so it's not an issue anymore, but it also kind of highlights how poor IMO the previous recruitment episodes have been in comparison to these latest ones. If they stick to what they've been doing lately then I can't complain, minor issues like Kale's transformation won't matter if the overall quality and characterization is greater.
Last edited by Zagacious on Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:59 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: This is seriously getting ridiculous..

Post by MackBlack » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:24 pm

I think the problem lies mainly in the big gap between the anime and the manga. Back then, fans who watched the anime could have looked at the manga to see if the story remained coherent, nowadays things have become ambiguous. We look at Super by constantly questioning the relevance of certain episodes, to say the least, mediocre. And it gives the impression that Toyotaro will never catch up with the anime now. Therefore, he will shorten the story in the manga to do so.

Filler not filler, we have no choice but to be patient before judging this arc as a whole. Some seemingly unnecessary episodes may prove elementary in the big picture.

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