Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:15 pm

This story killed the little bit of interest I had in the show. I skipped a lot of the build up stuff like #82, #85, #87, #88, #94 and #95 and I have no motivation to get back to the show unless the tournament gets real good.

The build up stuff for the majority was just boring. Pacing wise and how it was structured. Focusing majorly on our universe was not a good decision imo. The first #17 episode and the Ribrainne one aside, I didn't like any of it. Also, the antagonists of the arc are bland and don't interest me. Hopefully, Jiren will not be like the other Pride Troopers and have an interesting personality.

So, yeah that's where I stand when it comes to the arc. I wasn't excited when it was announced cause another tournament was too soon and my opinions haven't changed much. I'm still not excited and have put the show on hold in fact. We'll see how the tournament turns out though. Nagamine's involvement has been promising so far, so who knows maybe he'll deliver something good.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by ArchedThunder » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:This story killed the little bit of interest I had in the show. I skipped a lot of the build up stuff like #82, #85, #87, #88, #94 and #95 and I have no motivation to get back to the show unless the tournament gets real good.

The build up stuff for the majority was just boring. Pacing wise and how it was structured. Focusing majorly on our universe was not a good decision imo. The first #17 episode and the Ribrainne one aside, I didn't like any of it. Also, the antagonists of the arc are bland and don't interest me. Hopefully, Jiren will not be like the other Pride Troopers and have an interesting personality.

So, yeah that's where I stand when it comes to the arc. I wasn't excited when it was announced cause another tournament was too soon and my opinions haven't changed much. I'm still not excited and have put the show on hold in fact. We'll see how the tournament turns out though. Nagamine's involvement has been promising so far, so who knows maybe he'll deliver something good.
You skipped 94 and 95? Those episodes are excellent.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:19 pm

The most intriging part of the Pre Tournament stuff is Freeza mentioning he wants to manipulate even the Gods, meaning there is a good chance the tournament might get interrupted.

Freeza creating his Anti-Zeno group would be very refreshing and has awesome potential in making the arc at least Namek Saga level, if he gets to gather not only some Hakaishins but also some of the Angels, DB would finally be creating a memorable antagonistic group as the likes of Akatsuki, Genei Ryodan, Espadas, and the likes.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Akyon » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:41 pm

I've really appreciated the character interactions and portrayals during this build up, and with the sole exception of Tenshinhan, each character has had one great moment of interaction that reminded me why I was never a fan of the exclusive Goku-Vegeta and Bulma show when you have as varied and wonderful a cast as Super has at it's beck and call.

17's interactions have been gold. He's completely different from what many assumed, rather than his bratty hot head attitude he's now very calm headed. The mutual respect between him and Piccolo was sweet, his terrible pun to Marron was amazing, he's surprisingly frosty with his sister too although he clearly enjoys annoying her still(as a brother would). Krillin stating he's no good with 17 is a bit weird when we saw 17 ask if "his brother" was entering, and even when arriving on the island he seemed the two seemed to get on fine if a bit awkward at first. I was always curious how 17 felt about his sister marrying Krillin, but he seems pretty cool about it all, so that's one long question put to bed. I really hope he sticks around and becomes a permenant cast member.

Krillin's episode was (obviously) a highlight for me, him being my favourite character, but I felt this particular one showcased Krillin as a very worthwhile fighter, something that had been sorely missing for the longest time in Z. The focus on tactics and skill was amazing, the sneaky fourth disc was very clever, and although he clearly was at a disadvantage he showed some of that 'thinking on his feet' ability I adored back in Dragonball, the Saiyan saga and during his time sneaking around Namek. Wish 18 had been given an episode as well honestly, but I'm looking forward to seeing her team up with her family.

Gohan and Piccolo's episode was probably the best of the best in my eyes, even despite Krillin getting his best showing to date and 17's great return. The fact they highlighted his flaws in the Buu saga and wove it into the narrative almost tricked me into thinking Toriyama planned for that to be the case. Piccolo, whilst getting far less focus than Gohan, Krillin and 17, was treated with far more dignity in that episode than he's had in the entire rest of Super.

Roshi...has been handled badly for the most part. I remember being super excited to see him come back until his and Tien's recruitment episode and then my least favourite part of Roshi was all there was. Fortunately, he's 'trained it out of himself' now(although those episodes were also pretty bad for Roshi AND Yamcha) but the last one with Korin...that was genuinely nice. It's little things like that that make the cast feel alive rather than one note gags and it's something that Super is getting better at as time goes on. More Roshi the martial arts master, less Roshi the creepy rape face pervert please.

Tenshinhan...has really gotten the short end of the stick. But it's unsurprising. Even compared to Piccolo and 17, Tien's a recluse and as such even his friendship with Goku feels wooden. Seeing him become a master was nice, but it didn't lead anywhere, and I'm highly doubtful Yurin will ever appear again to warrant that episode having a villain anyway. Him getting smashed by Gohan repeatedly the following episode didn't help. Poor guy didn't even get to shoot one attack off successfully, before being rag dolled twice and punched through a mountain.

Goku himself has been genuinely interesting for the first time in a while with his selfish whims, keeping secrets and plain bad decision making. His interactions with the rest of the gang though have helped immensely. I really enjoyed the new friendship between him and 17, his "well done son" expression at Gohan, and his friendship with Krillin feels stronger than it once was.

Vegeta...I'm not sure what to make of right now. We've had domesticated Vegeta, and now we're back to arrogant selfish kung fu guy Vegeta. As of right now I'm a little confused as to which Vegeta we're to expect. Now Frieza's back and a far more dynamic foil for Goku, I'm not really sure what the future holds exactly for the prince.

Talking of Frieza, like everyone else I despised this idea. In universe it's pants on head idiotic to bring Frieza back and should have only been a last resort if literally every other fairly powerful character(including anyone stronger than Roshi) had been explored first. For the audience though, this adds a great dynamic. Frieza is unapologetically evil still, and he's a wild card that could shake up the entire tournament. Cannot wait to see what he does.

Buu, urgh. Poor Buu. His fight against Basil was great and got me to root for him, which is impressive since I was never Buu's biggest fan.

Yamcha, though...the entire gag here is Yamcha wants to enter but sucks so they ignore him? Even though Gohan knows he wants to enter. Even though Oolong knows. Even though he's good friends with Goku, Bulma, Krillin, Tien, Chiaoutzu and Roshi's student, not a single one of them even considered him? If he was ignored entirely, the joke would be a bit amusing, even as a Yamcha fan, but with Roshi actively VISITING HIM and Gohan even speaking to him about the tournament, it's a real dick move no one considered him even. He survived two Gods of Destructions battling for goodness sake! He managed to land a hit on Beerus! MAN IS TOO OP FOR THIS TEAM.

Can't say I care much for the other universes fighters as of right now, but that could change when we see them in action.
Universe 11's Pride Fighters are a little too pure for this world for me, and it feels forced when we have the General rescuing space kittens to show what a great guy he is. Jiren has not even appeared yet outside some mediatition shots.
Universe 10 deserves a better team than one named fighter who comes off as comic relief and 9 faceless muscle men. Gowasu deserved better after we got to know him in the Zamasu arc. I just feel bad for the guy.
The Universe 6 Saiyans are...well, they don't do much for me but I know others are pumped for them. Kale's gag of being Fem-Broly already lost it's gag appeal, Cabba's a blander Gohan and Caulifla is...well she's okay, but more super saiyans isn't exactly ground breaking even if they now come in girl flavour. I'd of liked a snippet of Botamo and Magetta too, but looks like the two most interesting designed Universe 6 characters are getting skipped over again. At least Hit and Frost had a nice interaction.
Universe 9...well I actually really like the Trio la Dangers group. Basil's fight with Buu was great, and Lavender did a great show too. Bermago is the most likable of the three, but unfortunately got the worst fight. Great ability though. What a shame they might not even survive to enter the tournament.
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by TheBigBoy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:18 pm

Scattered thoughts -

-I love this arc so far - easily the best arc of Super and one of my favorite arcs across the entire franchise.
-I like Goku as a coach and recruiter.
-Interested to see what happens at the end of the tournament. I don't think they would let Goku be partially responsible for the genocide of multiple universes. My original theory was the Grand Priest guy will reveal himself to be the big bad. There's just something sinister about him....however it seems more likely that Freeza is going to try to usurp the power of the gods.
-I don't mind Buu sitting out. He got a chance to shine in the exhibition match and Freeza being on the team is about 500% more interesting.
-I'm a little surprised by the amount of people saying they've skipped the "filler" episodes. I've really enjoyed them and would honestly love more! It's great when Dragon Ball slows down and takes time to *breathe*. Kuririn, #17, and Gohan have all great character development episodes. As others have said, Ten really got shafted. He's always been tremendously skilled with some neat techniques, and he really never got a good showcase. I suppose his personality is little dry and doesn't have the same room for growth as say Kuririn. Seems like a missed opportunity. Roshi fares a little better, while his episode wasn't very good, I really loved his moment with Karin.
- I feel bad for Yamcha being left out, especially since they seem to be really rubbing it in. Maybe he'll get an episode where he defends the earth while everyone else is away.
-The theme song and ending are both great.
-The Super Saiyan stuff with the U6 Saiyans seems a little rushed. I like their character designs though.
-I like the Pride Troopers. Sort of interesting to proactive heroes in Dragon Ball, as opposed to a bunch of combat obsessives who end up saving the universe simply because they just like to fight so much.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Asura » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:43 pm

Ajay wrote:
Asura wrote:<snip>
Can I ask if there's anything in here that refers to the content of my post? I'd love to address it/clarify in some way, but it's hard to know if I'm at all lumped in with your general address. Thanks!
Well no, actually, not in a negative way anyway. I agree with the content in your post 100%. You pretty much share my views on a lot of things. I agree that none of the recruitment episodes were bad, but that they all felt like stand-alone episodes instead of feeling like they're all connected and intertwined. I also stand by what you said about being very negative on hearing about Freeza's return, but so far liking very much what they're doing with the character.

It's also just like you said in terms of pacing. It's a long wait week to week, but the pacing is just right for watching it as a marathon.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Asura » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:50 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:This story killed the little bit of interest I had in the show. I skipped a lot of the build up stuff like #82, #85, #87, #88, #94 and #95 and I have no motivation to get back to the show unless the tournament gets real good.

The build up stuff for the majority was just boring. Pacing wise and how it was structured. Focusing majorly on our universe was not a good decision imo. The first #17 episode and the Ribrainne one aside, I didn't like any of it. Also, the antagonists of the arc are bland and don't interest me. Hopefully, Jiren will not be like the other Pride Troopers and have an interesting personality.

So, yeah that's where I stand when it comes to the arc. I wasn't excited when it was announced cause another tournament was too soon and my opinions haven't changed much. I'm still not excited and have put the show on hold in fact. We'll see how the tournament turns out though. Nagamine's involvement has been promising so far, so who knows maybe he'll deliver something good.
Interesting. May I ask what kind of direction you'd want to see the story go in if this arc has not been to your liking at all? What would you change about it to make it a 10/10 in your eyes?

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by dbs fanboy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:57 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:This story killed the little bit of interest I had in the show. I skipped a lot of the build up stuff like #82, #85, #87, #88, #94 and #95 and I have no motivation to get back to the show unless the tournament gets real good.
You really should watch #95, thought, i think it's visually interesting at least, just in case you still don't care about the story.
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by KingKaash » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:11 pm

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

-The Exhibition stuff was pretty good and got this arc off to a good start
-The recruitment episodes seem to be hot and cold, where we have a good episode one week and then a meh episode the week after. I would say the recruitment episodes have been somewhat connected but it could be a lot better. It kind of went Goku + Gohan lead to Krillin + Android 18 which leads to Android 17 but then there's a gap. And then Goku + Tien + Roshi leads to Piccolo + Gohan and then there's another gap. I will admit though that seeing all these characters gather together here at the end is pretty awesome and it would've been cool to see that more during the recruitment episodes.
-I feel exactly the same about reusing a legendary villain like Frieza over and over again but Frieza's inclusion to the Universe 7 team certainly creates interesting storylines. I wish they could've included Buu somehow still
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:15 pm

I think the start up till the end of the Exhibition Matches was overall good but everything afterwards up to before Freeza was brought in the picture was boring and borught the arc down for me but hopefully they'll make it up when the actual tournament starts.
JulieYBM wrote:Saving the reveal of Freeza having joined the team until after highlighting the other nine members of the Seventh Universe would have been a hell of a surprising cliffhanger.
Even if they did that they'd still spoil everything at least a month before the episode airs.
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:43 pm

sintzu wrote:I think the start up till the end of the Exhibition Matches was overall good but everything afterwards up to before Freeza was brought in the picture was boring and borught the arc down for me but hopefully they'll make it up when the actual tournament starts.
JulieYBM wrote:Saving the reveal of Freeza having joined the team until after highlighting the other nine members of the Seventh Universe would have been a hell of a surprising cliffhanger.
Even if they did that they'd still spoil everything at least a month before the episode airs.
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by precita » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:49 pm

This is all proper build-up. If people don't really like these episodes, I don't know how it's different than the old DBZ versions:

- Saiyan saga filler building up to the Saiyans. We got a lot of characterisation for Gohan and we saw everyone training for that year

- Goku training on his ship to Namek, or Goku training with King Kai

- Piccolo and the others training on King Kai's planet

- The training in the time chamber during the Cell arc, they made whole episodes for Goku/Gohan and Vegeta/Trunks training

- The build-up to the tournament in the early Boo saga, knowing that tournament was abandoned mid-way

Or even stuff back in Dragonball with Goku training with Mr. Popo, etc.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:38 am

Asura wrote:Interesting. May I ask what kind of direction you'd want to see the story go in if this arc has not been to your liking at all? What would you change about it to make it a 10/10 in your eyes?
The climax be good. I hope the "Gokuu is a bad guy" thing goes somewhere, but most importantly give me some visually impressive and entertaining battles. If the staff is able to deliver that this arc would at least not be a total waste of time for me. That's all.

As for the change part, I would put major emphasis on other universes and their motivations. Cut down the length of the build up events by at least five to six episodes. A minor one, I would change some of the stupid dialogue like tingly like feel and add a more serious tone to the arc. That's about it.
dbs fanboy wrote:You really should watch #95, thought, i think it's visually interesting at least, just in case you still don't care about the story.
I heard so. I will when I get the time. At least the interesting bits. Also, being visually interesting in a visual medium is good storytelling.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by ConfusedPhantom » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:34 am

JulieYBM wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again: this arc should have saved the recruitment for flashbacks during each fighter's highlight moment or episode. Saving the reveal of Freeza having joined the team until after highlighting the other nine members of the Seventh Universe would have been a hell of a surprising cliffhanger. Just imagine the seventh or eighth episode of the arc ending with the cliffhanger of Freeza fighting back-to-back with Gokuu as Gokuu gets surrounded by a bunch of angry fighters gunning for their lives. I can just imagine Nakao Ryuusei saying something like "Quite a pinch we're in, eh, Son Gokuu?" in a shit-eating-grin kind of way. The next episode could then open with a flashback of Gokuu making his deal with Freeza before cutting back to the tournament.

Showing the events of the arc in such a linear manner has destroyed whatever momentum and excitement that the Opening credits first promised. It's also ensured that the tournament itself will be filled with slow battles with unrelated plot threads that don't amount to anything for the characters.
That'd definitely be more watchable weekly. It'd be pretty interesting if the manga gave this story telling tactic a shot.

Despite the arc being told in a linear fashion, it feels like a disconnected series of events. It's really strange, because for the most part, these episodes have been mostly fine. The moment Freeza steps in, the character writing almost fixes itself. His dynamic with Goku is awesome. It's like they're in constant battle every time they speak to each other and the best part is that Goku doesn't let himself become a complete pawn for Freeza. Shame about Buu though. A lot of the Exhibition Matches were awesome and his battle was my favorite. Krillin, 17 (the first episode) and Gohan had excellent stuff, as well. So, things have been just alright. Really, all I ask from this arc is a good payoff in the end.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Ajay » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:39 pm

Artorias wrote:Just ONCE, I would like a traditional Dragon Ball feel good ending, where our crew saves the day and comes out on top. And the LAST thing I want to see is some other universe win. Please no. I want Goku to win it all, prove that he is the strongest mortal in the multi-verse, and then use the wish to redeem his reckless actions and bring every universe back. I know some people might be rolling their eyes as they read this, but it's just honestly how I feel.
I should clarify that when I say I don't want things played straight, what I mean is that I hope the tournament isn't just fight after fight, ending with a big crazy one, followed by some contrivance to save the other universes from destruction. I really don't want things neatly tied in a bow.

I felt the same for Universe 6, too. At this stage in the series, I want the tournament to be a springboard into something bigger, and not just an excuse for a fight. For all the issues with the Future Trunks arc, I appreciated that it was actually telling me a story.

Give me more of that! The good guys don't need to lose, but I'd like a grander tale with a big bad.
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Asura » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:09 pm

Ajay wrote:
Artorias wrote:Just ONCE, I would like a traditional Dragon Ball feel good ending, where our crew saves the day and comes out on top. And the LAST thing I want to see is some other universe win. Please no. I want Goku to win it all, prove that he is the strongest mortal in the multi-verse, and then use the wish to redeem his reckless actions and bring every universe back. I know some people might be rolling their eyes as they read this, but it's just honestly how I feel.
I should clarify that when I say I don't want things played straight, what I mean is that I hope the tournament isn't just fight after fight, ending with a big crazy one, followed by some contrivance to save the other universes from destruction. I really don't want things neatly tied in a bow.

I felt the same for Universe 6, too. At this stage in the series, I want the tournament to be a springboard into something bigger, and not just an excuse for a fight. For all the issues with the Future Trunks arc, I appreciated that it was actually telling me a story.

Give me more of that! The good guys don't need to lose, but I'd like a grander tale with a big bad.
I disagree. I think the Future Trunks arc trying to diverge away from linearity is what caused it to become such a colossal fuck-up in the first place. They should stick to what they know. Sure it's nice to change things up from the normal formula and get away from being linear, but if they can't do it then they shouldn't even attempt it, otherwise we'll just get the Future Trunks arc again.

I don't understand what people's issues are with having multiple tournaments in the series. The original Dragon Ball had three tournaments, and all of them went uninterrupted and were usually only broken up by one arc. The tournaments were some of the best parts of Dragon Ball to me, so I really don't mind just a straight up tournament, no hidden ulterior motives from the higher ups or anything crazy like that.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Master Xar » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Asura wrote:
Ajay wrote:
Artorias wrote:Just ONCE, I would like a traditional Dragon Ball feel good ending, where our crew saves the day and comes out on top. And the LAST thing I want to see is some other universe win. Please no. I want Goku to win it all, prove that he is the strongest mortal in the multi-verse, and then use the wish to redeem his reckless actions and bring every universe back. I know some people might be rolling their eyes as they read this, but it's just honestly how I feel.
I should clarify that when I say I don't want things played straight, what I mean is that I hope the tournament isn't just fight after fight, ending with a big crazy one, followed by some contrivance to save the other universes from destruction. I really don't want things neatly tied in a bow.

I felt the same for Universe 6, too. At this stage in the series, I want the tournament to be a springboard into something bigger, and not just an excuse for a fight. For all the issues with the Future Trunks arc, I appreciated that it was actually telling me a story.

Give me more of that! The good guys don't need to lose, but I'd like a grander tale with a big bad.
I disagree. I think the Future Trunks arc trying to diverge away from linearity is what caused it to become such a colossal fuck-up in the first place. They should stick to what they know. Sure it's nice to change things up from the normal formula and get away from being linear, but if they can't do it then they shouldn't even attempt it, otherwise we'll just get the Future Trunks arc again.

I don't understand what people's issues are with having multiple tournaments in the series. The original Dragon Ball had three tournaments, and all of them went uninterrupted and were usually only broken up by one arc. The tournaments were some of the best parts of Dragon Ball to me, so I really don't mind just a straight up tournament, no hidden ulterior motives from the higher ups or anything crazy like that.
I wouldn't agree with them completely closing off the idea of them going off the linear path every now and then, I do agree that outside of Frieza and his scheming that it should be a regular tournament, you could at least tell in the FT arc they put a lot of heart into telling the story and see what they were going for with the "Hope" theme, 66 and 67 were a bit of drop off I will agree, but other then that it wasn't too bad at all, this arc as you said isn't too bad, I wouldn't mind giving them another shot at a serious arc, I'd say the FT arc was a bit misguidedly handled.

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Ajay » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Asura wrote:I disagree. I think the Future Trunks arc trying to diverge away from linearity is what caused it to become such a colossal fuck-up in the first place. They should stick to what they know. Sure it's nice to change things up from the normal formula and get away from being linear, but if they can't do it then they shouldn't even attempt it, otherwise we'll just get the Future Trunks arc again.

I don't understand what people's issues are with having multiple tournaments in the series. The original Dragon Ball had three tournaments, and all of them went uninterrupted and were usually only broken up by one arc. The tournaments were some of the best parts of Dragon Ball to me, so I really don't mind just a straight up tournament, no hidden ulterior motives from the higher ups or anything crazy like that.
I haven't said anything about telling a non-linear narrative. I'm just asking for the type of stories that came to define the series from the moment Piccolo Daimao showed up. I'm asking for the exact opposite of what you think I'm asking for. Bounce me from this tournament into something grander a la the Boo arc. That's it.

While the first tournament in Dragon Ball was played straight, the second ended with Kuririn's death that catapulted us into a larger tale. The third tournament, while a nice spectacle, is not the best thing in the world, so there's no inconsistency in my view there. The Boo arc's tournament, again, catapulted us into something else. Tournaments are fine in and of themselves, but we're way beyond those simple tales now. They're not interesting enough to stand on their own at the point we're at now. They need to be starting points, not the entirety of an arc.

Super has introduced so many new elements since it began, but we haven't actually explored them to a significant degree yet. In Dragon Ball, we're told of God, so we go to God's Temple, hone our skills, and it becomes a regular part of the series. In Dragon Ball Z, we're told about Namek, so we go Namek and have one of the grandest story arcs in the series. We're told about the Kaioshin realm, so we go to the Kaioshin realm, meet new characters, then have a huge battle. The series was all about introducing new elements and having us explore them through the story told. There was always this sense of adventure. I love love love that.

For me, Super hasn't made masses of progress in this regard. I love that Beerus' planet is a norm, and I love that we saw Zuno's planet, if only for a short while. I don't love staring at a purple sky and stone floor for an entire arc while being introduced to all of these characters with amazing backstories that we don't get to see. I'm not looking forward to staring at a black background for weeks on end while this upcoming tournament takes place. Again, for all of the Future Trunks arc's issues, I appreciate it for taking us to another universe, for taking us to Zeno's place, and for setting the story in the future - which is of course the same as our world, but it feels different.

This arc has shown us other universes, different cities and planets, and all sorts. Unfortunately, they're not convincing. I can't be sold on a world by a mere glimpse of it. I need our characters there and interacting with it to feel any sort of strong emotion. That's what I so desperately want from this series and future arcs. Give us a reason to go somewhere and tell me a story in that world.

There's nothing wrong with what they're doing right now, really. It's just that it feels like they're constantly planting seeds, but never letting them blossom into something great.

Hope that makes more sense!
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Orb
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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by Orb » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:57 pm

I'm still in the camp of the tournament mostly playing straight with the exception of whatever Freeza is planning. At most we'll see a shift in the status quo as we have seen in the previous arcs. At the end of Champa arc we were introduced to Zeno and a possible multiverse tournament while in the F.Trunks arc we got two Zenos. While its just wild speculation I think the most likely scenario at the end of all this is a merger of the 8 universes into one (solving the Mortal level issue). This presents us with a status quo shift that allows for new stories to be told. The reason we probably wont get into another arc immediately is that both Toriyama and Toei need time to write and budget another arc so Toriyama probably presents an arc with a beginning, a middle and an end so they have "in between episodes" like 42-46 and 68-76 as . So you can't have an arc with a springboard ending like Boo

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Re: Pre-Tournament of Power Opinions

Post by ChaosLordBrandon » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:04 pm

Asura wrote:
Ajay wrote:
Artorias wrote:Just ONCE, I would like a traditional Dragon Ball feel good ending, where our crew saves the day and comes out on top. And the LAST thing I want to see is some other universe win. Please no. I want Goku to win it all, prove that he is the strongest mortal in the multi-verse, and then use the wish to redeem his reckless actions and bring every universe back. I know some people might be rolling their eyes as they read this, but it's just honestly how I feel.
I should clarify that when I say I don't want things played straight, what I mean is that I hope the tournament isn't just fight after fight, ending with a big crazy one, followed by some contrivance to save the other universes from destruction. I really don't want things neatly tied in a bow.

I felt the same for Universe 6, too. At this stage in the series, I want the tournament to be a springboard into something bigger, and not just an excuse for a fight. For all the issues with the Future Trunks arc, I appreciated that it was actually telling me a story.

Give me more of that! The good guys don't need to lose, but I'd like a grander tale with a big bad.
I disagree. I think the Future Trunks arc trying to diverge away from linearity is what caused it to become such a colossal fuck-up in the first place. They should stick to what they know. Sure it's nice to change things up from the normal formula and get away from being linear, but if they can't do it then they shouldn't even attempt it, otherwise we'll just get the Future Trunks arc again.

I don't understand what people's issues are with having multiple tournaments in the series. The original Dragon Ball had three tournaments, and all of them went uninterrupted and were usually only broken up by one arc. The tournaments were some of the best parts of Dragon Ball to me, so I really don't mind just a straight up tournament, no hidden ulterior motives from the higher ups or anything crazy like that.
I agree with Asura here, with how bad the Future Trunks turned out to be, Don't why it's a problem the arc to be nothing but a tournament.

Complicated is not always better, arcs such as Dressarosa, The naruto war arc, the future trunks arc and other such things are prime examples.

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