Kienzan use ( bad writing )

[snpaa]

Kinda hard to have fun if in literally every episode something utterly shits on all the precepts of the world established in the manga. It's like a 5-year-old was trying to write a scientific paper on string theory, only having perfunctorily browsed one book on it and understanding very little of it.

Also, I think there are better ways of expressing your opinion of a series, but you have to admit - it is pretty cathartic

Are you referring to gt or super ? You might be just speaking in general but it's kinda hard to tell.

[Saturnine]

Kinda hard to have fun if in literally every episode something utterly shits on all the precepts of the world established in the manga. It's like a 5-year-old was trying to write a scientific paper on string theory, only having perfunctorily browsed one book on it and understanding very little of it.

Also, I think there are better ways of expressing your opinion of a series, but you have to admit - it is pretty cathartic

Are you referring to gt or super ? You might be just speaking in general but it's kinda hard to tell.

GT. Super's only sin is crappy power scaling, but that was prevalent in Z filler too, for padding. GT had much more serious problems.

[Lionel]

Who says Krillin needs to engage using fisticuffs? The objective of the tournament is to knock as many opponents out of bounds as possible. If these characters were actually using their abilities to their fullest extent they could have made a huge distance between themselves and the ring with Piccolo's materialisation sorcery, then proceed to have Krillin carve it into pieces using his Kienzan barrage. A very large amount of the competition would fall into the abyss from that tactic alone. Anyone else left standing would be limited in their ability to manoeuvre.

That just rounds back to the question of whether Krillin's Kienzan is capable of cutting through the ring.

Honestly, I hate strategic theorizing like this. Where the opposing side just sits there doing nothing and allows the strategy to go off without a hitch. Being on a materialized platform outside the ring is a massive vulnerability. I suppose you'll have #17/#18 act as barriers to protect it? And, like the Kienzan, that ability is endless? And it will keep enemy blasts out, but allow friendly blasts through? And if the opponent, in turn, blocks incoming blasts, you'll have Goku IT over to distract them? Or perhaps to evacuate?

Or do you bypass all that and say "No, It will happen too fast for anyone to react"?

In general, such extravagant multilayered planning is the domain of amateurs. I'm not saying all complicated strategies are bad, just most of them. Low level fighters, players, or armchair generals weave fanciful scenarios in which they'll prevail, only to fall apart immediately when faced with a competent opponent who knows how to respond. Unless we think these repeatedly stated fighting geniuses are actually idiots, then we have to assume the reason they don't do any of these convoluted tactics is because they won't work. Or that their chances of success aren't high enough to warrant the risk. Because, again, they just don't get to do these things for free. Attempting these tactics opens themselves up to be countered.

For decades we've heard "just Solar Flare into Destructo Disc, win every time". I, for one, am quite pleased to see it revealed as ineffective.

is it any more fatuous than most of Universe 7's team remaining huddled close to the centre with virtually no opposition from anyone except from a small group? No, I didn't have a basic platform in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of an operable vehicle capable of moving at incredible speeds. Kami's spaceship was capable of traveling hundreds of millions of kilometres within a matter of seconds. A similar vehicle should be capable of granting enough distance for the Z fighters to anticipate any oncoming attacks and navigate the ship around. Plus, what's to stop Piccolo from creating the ship using the same material the arena is made from? A Kachi Katchin forged spaceship in the Namekian design would make it nigh impenetrable against most of the attacks we've seen thus far.

To prevent any arousal of suspicion, the Z-fighters could plot it in advance, then proceed to have Piccolo present a front with him battling someone and then proceeding to "fall off" the stage, making it look as authentic as possible, only to stop himself in time with some kind of artificial surface created large enough to hold the device. If Goku is willing to oblige then he could teleport the others to Piccolo, whoever is getting on the ship could oblige and then they proceed to fly off.

[DBZ Macky]

In general, such extravagant multilayered planning is the domain of amateurs. I'm not saying all complicated strategies are bad, just most of them. Low level fighters, players, or armchair generals weave fanciful scenarios in which they'll prevail, only to fall apart immediately when faced with a competent opponent who knows how to respond.

I'll have to completely agree on this one. It was already shown in the tournament too, with Narirama not even being to knock out a single opponent despite being specifically modified for the tournament and was meant to have all the abilities necessary to survive. Heck, he might have had so many other abilities that would have been extremely useful, but wasn't able to even use them because a competent fighter like Hit was able to find a blind-spot and attacked him before things went out of hand.

Such planning may have an excellent payoff if everything goes well, but the risk is also too high. Keeping the entire team on the center of the stage is a basic strategy, and those work more often than not. It doesn't put U7 at too much of an advantage, but it also doesn't put them at too much risk.

[snpaa]

Kinda hard to have fun if in literally every episode something utterly shits on all the precepts of the world established in the manga. It's like a 5-year-old was trying to write a scientific paper on string theory, only having perfunctorily browsed one book on it and understanding very little of it.

Also, I think there are better ways of expressing your opinion of a series, but you have to admit - it is pretty cathartic

Are you referring to gt or super ? You might be just speaking in general but it's kinda hard to tell.

GT. Super's only sin is crappy power scaling, but that was prevalent in Z filler too, for padding. GT had much more serious problems.

Well if that's the case then I'd have to disagree with you, while gt was certainly not good, gt wrote the characters more closely to the dbz series and took into consideration character progression that certain characters(vegeta) had near the end of z. While super writes regressed flanderized caricatures of them, with superficial growth.

Gt also had way better story telling concepts then super such as the baby arc , ss4 and the shadow dragon saga.These concepts introduce story elements that expanded the previously established lore without retroactively trying to fundamentally change it . With super it's seems like everything that was established such as the potora earrings, frieza destroying planet vegeta, time travel, trunks hair, bulma's sister, the supreme kais , the amount of mortal races in the universe have been significantly changed.

So I don't really understand how you can say gt shits on all the precepts of the world established in the manga unless you think both gt and super are shit.

[Saturnine]

Well if that's the case then I'd have to disagree with you, while gt was certainly not good, gt wrote the characters more closely to the dbz series and took into consideration character progression that certain characters(vegeta) had near the end of z. While super writes regressed flanderized caricatures of them, with superficial growth.

Vegeta's "growth" was not good with a continued series in mind. Him resigning himself to always being Kakarot's second may have been perceived as maturing by some, but his rivalry with Goku is a huge part of what makes Super so enjoyable. He doesn't accept being second to Goku forever, and only thanks to that does he occasionally surpass Goku in Super. In GT he was just there to blow Goku's horn like everyone else. I'd say it was a horrible downfall of the character, not development.

Gt also had way better story telling concepts then super such as the baby arc

Yeah, that one was mildly interesting, as it drew upon previously established lore. But the thing is, it built off the anime more than it did off the manga. The "Tuffles" were never even mentioned in the manga, and the only stuff we knew about them for sure was what Toriyama said (small stature, high technological knowledge, docile) and that's it. Also, a scientist wanting revenge for his people being wiped out. Where have I seen that before?

ss4

Actually it's not the logical continuation of what Toriyama did. Toriyama has driven the Saiyans away from their monkey heritage further and further with every arc. Super seems to corroborate this, with U6's Saiyans not even growing tails anymore. SSj4 was therefore a retracing of steps of sorts, not forward evolution like the godly forms introduced in Super.

and the shadow dragon saga.

The only good thing about this saga is that it explores consequences of overuse of the Dragonballs, but I think it's fundamentally flawed considering the power scaling. Earth's Dragon Balls are rather small and weak, Shenron was killed by King Piccolo, remember? Making the Shadow Dragons as strong as they were was unjustifiable. I think this saga would have been perfect if placed between say, Raditz and Vegeta, but not at the end of the series and requiring SSj4 Gogeta. Not to mention it only addresses Earth's Dragon Balls and fails to tackle the Namekian ones (if its intention was to give the protagonists a moral lesson), not to mention the completely bullshit ending where Shenron decides on its own to do a thing that should be way beyond his agency to undertake, seeing as how he is technically just a subordinate to Dende.

These concepts introduce story elements that expanded the previously established lore without retroactively trying to fundamentally change it .

Yeah, but they also ignore tons of stuff, like I wrote above. In addition to that, they often build off Toei's previous filler more than they do off canon material. It's Toei patting themselves on the back. Also, Baby getting blown into the sun? That happened once with Cooler and once with Broly already. Come up with something freakin' new! Notice that in canon every major villain dies in a different way, and in Toei's original material that stuff gets rehashed, most characters are direct or indirect homages to their canon equivalents and everything grows ever more repetitive.

Vegeta: Crushed by a giant ape, survives
Freeza: Cut in half by his own energy disc
Cell: Kamehameha
Buu: Spirit Bomb
Freeza again: Kamehameha (ok, I'll give you that), though the time rewind still felt new
Zamasu: Erased along with an entire timeline

And what does GT give us?

Baby: Kamehameha'd into the sun (like Cooler and Broly before him)
Super 17: Dragon Fist + Kamehameha (like King Piccolo/Hirudegarn, Cell)
Omega Shenron: Spirit Bomb all over again

Oh, and don't get me started on the buildup to the Super 17 arc, where the fundamental precept of not keeping your body when you die and go to hell is violated, just like it was the case with Toei's DBZ filler on several occasions. Toei made an entire arc out of a misconception they themselves introduced by not being dilligent enough in browsing the rules of Toriyama's universe (the dead having no body/no agency in hell), then they rehashed this arc in Movie #12, and then yet another time in GT! Also, androids like 19 who are entities with no soul and therefore don't even qualify for afterlife returning from Hell intact? Fuck logic. And GT is full of this kind of stuff, at every turn. Super is a new story and feels like a new story. Conflicts are resolved in new, as yet unexplored ways, new characters aren't half-assed rehashes of previous ones (except deliberate, obvious homages) and the worldbuilding is the logical way to extend what's been established in Z, instead of a brief tour around some planets and then back to Earth forever again.

With super it's seems like everything that was established such as the potora earrings, frieza destroying planet vegeta, time travel, trunks hair, bulma's sister, the supreme kais , the amount of mortal races in the universe have been significantly changed.

Indeed, these retcons did happen. But notice a difference - none of these things was ever explicitly stated not to be the case before.
- We never knew why Goku and Vegeta separated, we only got a random suggestion, which may or may not have been accurate. Turns out it wasn't
- We never knew Freeza's motives for destroying planet Vegeta, and nothing contradicts Beerus' involvement
- What exactly has been changed about time travel? Everything checks out - the multiverse theory of creating new timelines every time you travel through time has been preserved. The only thing that's been added is that it's a crime by godly law.
- Trunks' hair was a supposedly retroactive artistic decision meant to make Trunks' hair align with Bulma's. Bulma's was purple in the original manga, so her hair and Trunks' would never match.
- Never was it said that Bulma couldn't have an older sister. Also, Tights was explored in the Galactic Patrolman manga, by Toriyama.
- Nothing about the supreme kais previously established has been changed, only Shin's lack of knowledge and experience has been accentuated
- Never did we get an indicator of how many mortal races inhabit the universe, outside of filler. But the thing about writers such as Toriyama is, they don't need to care about filler. Filler doesn't care about them, so why would they even consider not returning the favor?

So I don't really understand how you can say gt shits on all the precepts of the world established in the manga unless you think both gt and super are shit.

Simple:
- Lack of respect for enemies' status (Buu for example is a monster feared universally, but suddenly there's a random dude on a random planet stronger than him - Rilldo)
- Blatant disregard for the established rule that people in hell don't keep their bodies, or at least have no agency (much less the freedom to build a fucking android from scratch)
- Character feats completely not matching supposed levels of power (SSj4 Goku being amazed that Omega Shenron's blast destroyed an entire city. Really nigga?)
- Goku drastically OOC. In canon he was able to admit defeat after trying everything he had, in GT everyone acted like he had always been like Superman.
- Characters who never appeared in the manga continuity such as Cooler appearing, creating an impossible timeline
- Tons of minor things such as Dende forgetting he can heal and volunteering to go fetch a medkit (seriously?)

There's prolly much more, honestly, just can't tell you more off the top of my head. Super has its problems, but I'll take these problems over GT's problems anyday.

[gofishus]

Well if that's the case then I'd have to disagree with you, while gt was certainly not good, gt wrote the characters more closely to the dbz series and took into consideration character progression that certain characters(vegeta) had near the end of z. While super writes regressed flanderized caricatures of them, with superficial growth.

Vegeta's "growth" was not good with a continued series in mind. Him resigning himself to always being Kakarot's second may have been perceived as maturing by some, but his rivalry with Goku is a huge part of what makes Super so enjoyable. He doesn't accept being second to Goku forever, and only thanks to that does he occasionally surpass Goku in Super. In GT he was just there to blow Goku's horn like everyone else. I'd say it was a horrible downfall of the character, not development.

Gt also had way better story telling concepts then super such as the baby arc

Yeah, that one was mildly interesting, as it drew upon previously established lore. But the thing is, it built off the anime more than it did off the manga. The "Tuffles" were never even mentioned in the manga, and the only stuff we knew about them for sure was what Toriyama said (small stature, high technological knowledge, docile) and that's it. Also, a scientist wanting revenge for his people being wiped out. Where have I seen that before?

ss4

Actually it's not the logical continuation of what Toriyama did. Toriyama has driven the Saiyans away from their monkey heritage further and further with every arc. Super seems to corroborate this, with U6's Saiyans not even growing tails anymore. SSj4 was therefore a retracing of steps of sorts, not forward evolution like the godly forms introduced in Super.

and the shadow dragon saga.

The only good thing about this saga is that it explores consequences of overuse of the Dragonballs, but I think it's fundamentally flawed considering the power scaling. Earth's Dragon Balls are rather small and weak, Shenron was killed by King Piccolo, remember? Making the Shadow Dragons as strong as they were was unjustifiable. I think this saga would have been perfect if placed between say, Raditz and Vegeta, but not at the end of the series and requiring SSj4 Gogeta. Not to mention it only addresses Earth's Dragon Balls and fails to tackle the Namekian ones (if its intention was to give the protagonists a moral lesson), not to mention the completely bullshit ending where Shenron decides on its own to do a thing that should be way beyond his agency to undertake, seeing as how he is technically just a subordinate to Dende.

These concepts introduce story elements that expanded the previously established lore without retroactively trying to fundamentally change it .

Yeah, but they also ignore tons of stuff, like I wrote above. In addition to that, they often build off Toei's previous filler more than they do off canon material. It's Toei patting themselves on the back. Also, Baby getting blown into the sun? That happened once with Cooler and once with Broly already. Come up with something freakin' new! Notice that in canon every major villain dies in a different way, and in Toei's original material that stuff gets rehashed, most characters are direct or indirect homages to their canon equivalents and everything grows ever more repetitive.

Vegeta: Crushed by a giant ape, survives
Freeza: Cut in half by his own energy disc
Cell: Kamehameha
Buu: Spirit Bomb
Freeza again: Kamehameha (ok, I'll give you that), though the time rewind still felt new
Zamasu: Erased along with an entire timeline

And what does GT give us?

Baby: Kamehameha'd into the sun (like Cooler and Broly before him)
Super 17: Dragon Fist + Kamehameha (like King Piccolo/Hirudegarn, Cell)
Omega Shenron: Spirit Bomb all over again

Oh, and don't get me started on the buildup to the Super 17 arc, where the fundamental precept of not keeping your body when you die and go to hell is violated, just like it was the case with Toei's DBZ filler on several occasions. Toei made an entire arc out of a misconception they themselves introduced by not being dilligent enough in browsing the rules of Toriyama's universe (the dead having no body/no agency in hell), then they rehashed this arc in Movie #12, and then yet another time in GT! Also, androids like 19 who are entities with no soul and therefore don't even qualify for afterlife returning from Hell intact? Fuck logic. And GT is full of this kind of stuff, at every turn. Super is a new story and feels like a new story. Conflicts are resolved in new, as yet unexplored ways, new characters aren't half-assed rehashes of previous ones (except deliberate, obvious homages) and the worldbuilding is the logical way to extend what's been established in Z, instead of a brief tour around some planets and then back to Earth forever again.

With super it's seems like everything that was established such as the potora earrings, frieza destroying planet vegeta, time travel, trunks hair, bulma's sister, the supreme kais , the amount of mortal races in the universe have been significantly changed.

Indeed, these retcons did happen. But notice a difference - none of these things was ever explicitly stated not to be the case before.
- We never knew why Goku and Vegeta separated, we only got a random suggestion, which may or may not have been accurate. Turns out it wasn't
- We never knew Freeza's motives for destroying planet Vegeta, and nothing contradicts Beerus' involvement
- What exactly has been changed about time travel? Everything checks out - the multiverse theory of creating new timelines every time you travel through time has been preserved. The only thing that's been added is that it's a crime by godly law.
- Trunks' hair was a supposedly retroactive artistic decision meant to make Trunks' hair align with Bulma's. Bulma's was purple in the original manga, so her hair and Trunks' would never match.
- Never was it said that Bulma couldn't have an older sister. Also, Tights was explored in the Galactic Patrolman manga, by Toriyama.
- Nothing about the supreme kais previously established has been changed, only Shin's lack of knowledge and experience has been accentuated
- Never did we get an indicator of how many mortal races inhabit the universe, outside of filler. But the thing about writers such as Toriyama is, they don't need to care about filler. Filler doesn't care about them, so why would they even consider not returning the favor?

So I don't really understand how you can say gt shits on all the precepts of the world established in the manga unless you think both gt and super are shit.

Simple:
- Lack of respect for enemies' status (Buu for example is a monster feared universally, but suddenly there's a random dude on a random planet stronger than him - Rilldo)
- Blatant disregard for the established rule that people in hell don't keep their bodies, or at least have no agency (much less the freedom to build a fucking android from scratch)
- Character feats completely not matching supposed levels of power (SSj4 Goku being amazed that Omega Shenron's blast destroyed an entire city. Really nigga?)
- Goku drastically OOC. In canon he was able to admit defeat after trying everything he had, in GT everyone acted like he had always been like Superman.
- Characters who never appeared in the manga continuity such as Cooler appearing, creating an impossible timeline
- Tons of minor things such as Dende forgetting he can heal and volunteering to go fetch a medkit (seriously?)

There's prolly much more, honestly, just can't tell you more off the top of my head. Super has its problems, but I'll take these problems over GT's problems anyday.

I think if you look at GT in the sense that it continues Dragon ball in an alternate universe not established by the Manga, this is the world that DBZ Movies + GT exists in, then its actually ok. I think if you watch GT with the expectation that it's supposed to follow the DBZ continuity then it doesn't make sense and Super (even tho the power scaling sucks and retcons etc) makes more sense. But if you don't let the whole canon vs non canon thing get to you, GT can be enjoyed as much as the DBZ movies can be enjoyed and yes I do it retains the look and feel of the old DBZ anime more compared to Super. But that's probably expected considering GT was made very soon after DBZ aired while Super is a next generation anime.

[HeroR]

A super technique being proven to not be so super isn't bad writing. That's the hallmark of Shonen series.

People have had this fanon that the Kienzan can cut through anything, even though that's at odds with how the series works. The Kienzan isn't magic: it's Ki. Against a suitably stronger ki, it should amount to nothing. That's how all ki moves work in this series.

It's not fanon. It's the facts established in the manga. The technique was never challenged and it successfully cut much stronger opponents.

You might think it has a ceiling - which is reasonable - but it was never shown. It also wasn't a fluke because it was consistently shown to work against stronger opponents. You're using your own inflexible logic to contradict something that is bullet proof.

It's called no limit fallacy. Just because something isn't shown with an upper limit doesn't mean it doesn't have one by default.

[snpaa]

Vegeta's "growth" was not good with a continued series in mind. Him resigning himself to always being Kakarot's second may have been perceived as maturing by some, but his rivalry with Goku is a huge part of what makes Super so enjoyable. He doesn't accept being second to Goku forever, and only thanks to that does he occasionally surpass Goku in Super. In GT he was just there to blow Goku's horn like everyone else. I'd say it was a horrible downfall of the character, not development.

You see I would agree with you , if we were getting the vegeta that we all loved and liked in super. The reason vegeta in dbz became popular was because he was the unpredictable hotheaded prideful asshole who screwed things up for the protagonists. His sheer envy at Goku being one step ahead being his motive for even existing was a major part of his character. Almost everyone watching wanted him to slowly see the light and finally fight for the side of good, and to find new meaning in life.

and he did..... so where did we go from here? In super vegeta he just comes off as a tsundere family man who occasionally folds his arms while going "Hmph" over and over. Is super version of vegeta really just as entertaining as the dbz version for you?

Yeah, that one was mildly interesting, as it drew upon previously established lore. But the thing is, it built off the anime more than it did off the manga. The "Tuffles" were never even mentioned in the manga, and the only stuff we knew about them for sure was what Toriyama said (small stature, high technological knowledge, docile) and that's it. Also, a scientist wanting revenge for his people being wiped out. Where have I seen that before?

So toriyama commented on their existence does that not make it somewhat cannon? Just like how the yardrat who's currently in super was not in the official manga. Also it's been confirmed in super that the saiyan's stole planet vegeta from another native race, I don't think they named a name but I think you can make a safe bet that it was truffles. Also for your last comment , are you implying that because you've heard of it before that means it bad? I think you should aim your critique to the execution of the idea and not the freshness of the idea itself because with that logic super is doing nothing but rehashing old plots that have been done before.

Actually it's not the logical continuation of what Toriyama did. Toriyama has driven the Saiyans away from their monkey heritage further and further with every arc. Super seems to corroborate this, with U6's Saiyans not even growing tails anymore. SSj4 was therefore a retracing of steps of sorts, not forward evolution like the godly forms introduced in Super.

well that's a nice way he tried to spin it , but from what I understand he just forgot about the tails and just didn't feel like drawing them anymore. The tail is the most distinctive visual trait that allows you to identify a saiyan from a human. If you take away the tails from the saiyans and the ozaru forms then they literally just come off as Japanese people from outerspace who can turn their hair yellow . Evolution does not happen that fast it takes millions of years to develop in the right environment. seeing as you based your argument for vegeta staying in his regressed state as positive for the series , I'd say throwing out the lore of the saiyan tail is not a positive step in the right direction, with each distinctive heritage feature you omit from the saiyans you will continue to bring saiyan's to be nothing more then humans.

The only good thing about this saga is that it explores consequences of overuse of the Dragonballs, but I think it's fundamentally flawed considering the power scaling. Earth's Dragon Balls are rather small and weak, Shenron was killed by King Piccolo, remember? Making the Shadow Dragons as strong as they were was unjustifiable. I think this saga would have been perfect if placed between say, Raditz and Vegeta, but not at the end of the series and requiring SSj4 Gogeta. Not to mention it only addresses Earth's Dragon Balls and fails to tackle the Namekian ones (if its intention was to give the protagonists a moral lesson), not to mention the completely bullshit ending where Shenron decides on its own to do a thing that should be way beyond his agency to undertake, seeing as how he is technically just a subordinate to Dende.

I want to remind you that I'm only arguing about the concept being good and not the execution.

Indeed, these retcons did happen. But notice a difference - none of these things was ever explicitly stated not to be the case before.
- We never knew why Goku and Vegeta separated, we only got a random suggestion, which may or may not have been accurate. Turns out it wasn't
- We never knew Freeza's motives for destroying planet Vegeta, and nothing contradicts Beerus' involvement
- What exactly has been changed about time travel? Everything checks out - the multiverse theory of creating new timelines every time you travel through time has been preserved. The only thing that's been added is that it's a crime by godly law.
- Trunks' hair was a supposedly retroactive artistic decision meant to make Trunks' hair align with Bulma's. Bulma's was purple in the original manga, so her hair and Trunks' would never match.
- Never was it said that Bulma couldn't have an older sister. Also, Tights was explored in the Galactic Patrolman manga, by Toriyama.
- Nothing about the supreme kais previously established has been changed, only Shin's lack of knowledge and experience has been accentuated
- Never did we get an indicator of how many mortal races inhabit the universe, outside of filler. But the thing about writers such as Toriyama is, they don't need to care about filler. Filler doesn't care about them, so why would they even consider not returning the favor?

-Why did elder kai not mention this in z? why does the potara earrings now give you less time if you're compared to z?
-It was heavily suggested that freeza was paranoid of the saiyans' and in the anime at least the dub version of a flashback of frieza telling zarbon he plans on killing them because of the fear of a revolt.
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w3Q3JIAyo problem in the manga mostly
-Future Trunks hair has been pretty much accepted lavender at this point, changing it now instead of back then only serves to alienate the audience. literally nobody was complaining about his hair being purple , what functional inuniverse purpose does it provide by making it blue? Goku is supposed to have tan skin , but in the anime his skin tone of a lighter side, yet in super that is unchanged. Gt actually fixed that.
-She was never mentioned before super in any dragon ball related media except jaco galactic patrolman , and the way they introduced her was as if she was always there apart of the cast. Her being introduced is the same problem I had with tarble being introduced, it came completely out of left filled and didn't seem remotely believable. I could believe it if it was her cousin, but her sister is asking for too much suspension of disbelief. what purpose did introducing bulma had a sister actually serve to the story?
-why do the other universe not have more then one supreme kais? in the anime and manga it was established in the buu saga that there were many supreme kai's such as the west supreme kai, south supreme kai, Grand supreme kai and north supreme kai. ultimately they were killed by majin buu in this universe but in other universes there is only one supreme kai, yet it's never explain why?
-You only have to do the logistics of this and you can see why it makes no sense, Frieza has been established as taking over planets to sell them later, if there are only 28 mortal races to sell planets too, how on earth would be able to make a business off of that? That type of intergalactic space conquest only works if there is a plethora of mortal planets out to be ransacked and to have enough mortal's you've haven't already sold planets too willing to shell out money for a livable biome. How would he make a profit if he eventually sells to all the possible candidates?

Simple:
- Lack of respect for enemies' status (Buu for example is a monster feared universally, but suddenly there's a random dude on a random planet stronger than him - Rilldo)
- Blatant disregard for the established rule that people in hell don't keep their bodies, or at least have no agency (much less the freedom to build a fucking android from scratch)
- Character feats completely not matching supposed levels of power (SSj4 Goku being amazed that Omega Shenron's blast destroyed an entire city. Really nigga?)
- Goku drastically OOC. In canon he was able to admit defeat after trying everything he had, in GT everyone acted like he had always been like Superman.
- Characters who never appeared in the manga continuity such as Cooler appearing, creating an impossible timeline
- Tons of minor things such as Dende forgetting he can heal and volunteering to go fetch a medkit (seriously?)

There's prolly much more, honestly, just can't tell you more off the top of my head. Super has its problems, but I'll take these problems over GT's problems anyday.

These reasons are a bit superficial, of course you're not wrong but I could literally make a list of complaints that mirror this in super except for the blatant disregard for the established rule that people in hell don't keep their bodies. That rule was actually tossed in z, and just followed up in gt.

Super has the same problems as gt if not worse , I feel as if some people just like to join the crowd that says gt was shit while ignoring those same glaring problems in super because it's new after a long hiatus of no dragonball people are willing to praise it based on a nostalgia factor.

[VegettoEX]

That this has somehow gone on for six pages is slightly ridiculous. This is an off-hand comment that could have been made in the respective episode discussion thread.