SSBlue -- people seem confused by it.

[ChiefWamsutta]

So I felt like I had understood some things about Super Saiyan Blue, but to be honest with you all, I think there is widespread confusion on what exactly it is.

People either believe it to be "the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who has the power of Super Saiyan God" or they believe that it is God Ki + SS1 = SSBlue.

Toei seems to have confused the fuck out of people during the RoF saga because of their two explanations as to how SSBlue is formed.

These are some comments I found on YouTube:

SSB is simply a Super Saiyan becoming a God. Because of the perfect ki control and their level of focus, they can condense and convert their ki to god ki. SSG is simply a Saiyan becoming a god. So it should be called Saiyan God, while SSB is basically Super Saiyan God.

SSB is basically energy-efficient Super Saiyan form. If you don't believe me, check which color is there at the exterior of the SSB. Goku just says you need Super Saiyan God like power to go SSB, not the status itself. And Super Saiyan God is an evolution, not a transformtion.

Yep, SSG represents godhood while SSB represents mastery of your own ki which gives you power of gods but not godhood.

They both mean godhood and mastery of ki, but, yeah, SSG represents Goku reaching a new level of power. SSG is a Base form becoming a god, while an SSB is a Super Saiyan becoming a god.

Goku said calm mind and perfect ki control. try to connect the dots.

SSB is not godhood. SSG is. That is only true in the manga. In the anime SSB =/= SSGSS.

I am curious how you all think this fits together (SSGod, SSBlue, God Ki, and what Goku said about a Saiyan with the power of a SSG). It is clear that not everyone agrees on how this works. It might do some good to hear Goku teach SSBlue to Caulifla.

[precita]

The problem is nobody, not even the Toei writers themselves, have any idea what Super Saiyan Blue is anymore. It's supposed to give Goku and Vegeta nearly God-like power, but now that other characters are seemingly able to match it or fight alongside it like Zamasu/Black, 17, or the various other universe fighters...it seems to have lost all meaning.

Without Toriyama as the primary writer doing things like the manga, nobody has any clue had to balance power levels anymore.

[Xeztin]

The problem is nobody, not even the Toei writers themselves, have any idea what Super Saiyan Blue is anymore. It's supposed to give Goku and Vegeta nearly God-like power, but now that other characters are seemingly able to match it or fight alongside it like Zamasu/Black, 17, or the various other universe fighters...it seems to have lost all meaning.

Without Toriyama as the primary writer doing things like the manga, nobody has any clue had to balance power levels anymore.

I'm sure Toriyama was asked about how SSJB worked and its power and they probably got told It was up to them. I think Toriyama and Toyotaro even got confused, I assume it is Toei's fault since they brought the gold SSJ forms back. The original idea was Goku had the power of SSG in base because of absorbed God ki and SSJB was the result of that Saiyan going Super Saiyan. I guess SSJB was supposed to be 50x SSG? But they wanted to keep him under Beerus so that got nerfed because SSG fought on par with Beerus. Golden Freeza doesn't have god ki but yet fought on par with SSJB. I think thats where the strength stats and Blue got screwed up. I think giving "God ki" to mortals was a train wreck ready to happen but then they had to have a reason for SSJB's hair color so its anyones guess what really happened at this point. In my opinion SSG is God Ki in base and since it was barrowed absorbing the ki in base gave what we saw in RoF and Goku and Vegeta abadoned the state for whatever reasons assuming they can turn god ki on and off because they can go normal SSJ. Of course i think SSJB is SSJ+God Ki.

[Hugo Boss]

Super Saiyan Blue is what Goku explained to Freeza in the movies or in the anime. There is also that pamphlet's it is the result of a Saiyan with god-like power going Super Saiyan, which is compatible with what Goku said.

You seem to be confused by the definition of Super Saiyan Blue and its characteristics, or what they do to activate it.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Super Saiyan Blue is what Goku explained to Freeza in the movies or in the anime. There is also that pamphlet's it is the result of a Saiyan with god-like power going Super Saiyan, which is compatible with what Goku said.

You seem to be confused by the definition of Super Saiyan Blue and its characteristics, or what they do to activate it.

Now, see, I actually was replying to these YouTube people and saying exactly what you said. I was advocating for this idea.

I think people get confused because of the whole "Keep the energy inside you. Do not let your ki leak out," and they thought that was related to SSBlue.

[Hugo Boss]

Super Saiyan Blue is what Goku explained to Freeza in the movies or in the anime. There is also that pamphlet's it is the result of a Saiyan with god-like power going Super Saiyan, which is compatible with what Goku said.

You seem to be confused by the definition of Super Saiyan Blue and its characteristics, or what they do to activate it.

Now, see, I actually was replying to these YouTube people and saying exactly what you said. I was advocating for this idea.

I think people get confused because of the whole "Keep the energy inside you. Do not let your ki leak out," and they thought that was related to SSBlue.

Perhaps they are related. That training helped them to increase their normal power and Super Saiyan Blue can't be felt by ordinary humans too.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Super Saiyan Blue is what Goku explained to Freeza in the movies or in the anime. There is also that pamphlet's it is the result of a Saiyan with god-like power going Super Saiyan, which is compatible with what Goku said.

You seem to be confused by the definition of Super Saiyan Blue and its characteristics, or what they do to activate it.

Now, see, I actually was replying to these YouTube people and saying exactly what you said. I was advocating for this idea.

I think people get confused because of the whole "Keep the energy inside you. Do not let your ki leak out," and they thought that was related to SSBlue.

Perhaps they are related. That training helped them to increase their normal power and Super Saiyan Blue can't be felt by ordinary humans too.

It honestly is so dumb how we can't even tell if they are related. I always saw it as keeping Ki inside themselves helped them learn to master Ki control. Then their Ki converts to God ki when they go SSBlue. ...

[DBZ Macky]

I wonder why everyone seems to think that SSB is related to "absolute Ki control" or something? Didn't Goku just say that he could combine Kaioken with it because of it being calm and all.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

For the amount of time we spend talking about SSB or see Vegeta & Goku go blue, do you ever think we'll find out how exactly they unlocked the blue form or does training with Whis just do that to you? But what I really wanna know is how the hell Vegeta was able to get God ki if he never did the SSG ritual. Like, can a god train a mortal into getting God ki? This is all so confusing, and we're way too far in the series for them to ever actually explain it, especially when Goku is about to get a new transformation or power soon.

[Marlowe89]

I think people get confused because of the whole "Keep the energy inside you. Do not let your ki leak out," and they thought that was related to SSBlue.

Well, that exercise is related to Blue -- more specifically though, it's related to the power of a Super Saiyan God which could also be achieved in base as we were clearly shown in Episode 20.

As Hugo Boss already clarified, multiple materials were very clear in establishing it to be the result of a Saiyan with Super Saiyan God's power changing into Super Saiyan, so that's simply what it is. If this was changed for the anime then Goku's description for it in Episode 25 wouldn't have mirrored what we already knew about it.

[Kanious]

My interpretation of SSBlue:

A super saiyan transformation based on god ki. And what is god ki? God ki is the way gods control their ki, not strenght, but the WAY they use their power, it doesn't mean that automatically a mortal can't be on par or even stronger than gods. Also, mortals can be trained to learn how to control their ki in the same way the gods do.

Doesn't even Shin has god ki? He is weak.

As there is no real and official explanation [we have many explanations and they contradict themselves], i think we can guess. I hope to see something about this coming from Toriyama or Toei, in a way that wont make us confused.

[TheOne]

My interpretation of SSBlue:

A super saiyan transformation based on god ki. And what is god ki? God ki is the way gods control their ki, not strenght, but the WAY they use their power, it doesn't mean that automatically a mortal can't be on par or even stronger than gods. Also, mortals can be trained to learn how to control their ki in the same way the gods do.

Doesn't even Shin has god ki? He is weak.

As there is no real and official explanation [we have many explanations and they contradict themselves], i think we can guess. I hope to see something about this coming from Toriyama or Toei, in a way that wont make us confused.

Shin does use diety Ki even though he's weak.

It's funny, but it seems like Toei was consistent with this. I distinctly remember Piccolo saying he couldn't sense Shins energy or something allong those lines.

[sintzu]

I like Funimation's explanation best, it's the user's ability to use SsjG on thier own.

[Bullza]

Like most I also thought it was just supposed to be Base Goku with the power of Super Saiyan God burning inside, him turning Super Saiyan. He transforms and he's Blue now, that was it.

Now I'm a little undecided on it because Base Goku could still turn into the normal Super Saiyan immediately after fighting Beerus. He never turned Blue when he went Super Saiyan in Battle of Gods. They made a point of this whole Ki leaking thing and you see the Blue aura teased for the first time.

And then there's the fact that when you first see him about to go Super Saiyan Blue, you see this



The normal Super Saiyan aura. There had to be a point in them showing that. So now I'm wondering if it's just him turning Super Saiyan and then adding God Ki to it or not letting the Ki leak out so that it changes him, explaining why only at that point can the others no longer sense him.

[Saturnine]

Initially it was the SSj form of a Saiyan with the power of a God.

Right now it's just another transformation, granted it's for Saiyans at a certain level of strength and not that easy to achieve just like that. But if Caulifla asks Goku to teach her the form and successfully learns it, that proves Toei's new route of "no godly base, but still SSj Blue".

[Basako]

It's confusing because it was never shown how they obtained it. It's a saiyan combining god ki with the SS transformation. Called SSGSS for a reason.

What I'm reading about god power level with SS is wrong, because if Goku and Vegeta have this power, they would always transform to blue, but they still go yellow. God ki is involved, which creates questions like why they can go blue but not red. The manga made some sense of this contradictions.

[aravinthan]

So I felt like I had understood some things about Super Saiyan Blue, but to be honest with you all, I think there is widespread confusion on what exactly it is.

People either believe it to be "the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who has the power of Super Saiyan God" or they believe that it is God Ki + SS1 = SSBlue.

Toei seems to have confused the fuck out of people during the RoF saga because of their two explanations as to how SSBlue is formed.

These are some comments I found on YouTube:

SSB is simply a Super Saiyan becoming a God. Because of the perfect ki control and their level of focus, they can condense and convert their ki to god ki. SSG is simply a Saiyan becoming a god. So it should be called Saiyan God, while SSB is basically Super Saiyan God.

SSB is basically energy-efficient Super Saiyan form. If you don't believe me, check which color is there at the exterior of the SSB. Goku just says you need Super Saiyan God like power to go SSB, not the status itself. And Super Saiyan God is an evolution, not a transformtion.

Yep, SSG represents godhood while SSB represents mastery of your own ki which gives you power of gods but not godhood.

They both mean godhood and mastery of ki, but, yeah, SSG represents Goku reaching a new level of power. SSG is a Base form becoming a god, while an SSB is a Super Saiyan becoming a god.

Goku said calm mind and perfect ki control. try to connect the dots.

SSB is not godhood. SSG is. That is only true in the manga. In the anime SSB =/= SSGSS.

I am curious how you all think this fits together (SSGod, SSBlue, God Ki, and what Goku said about a Saiyan with the power of a SSG). It is clear that not everyone agrees on how this works. It might do some good to hear Goku teach SSBlue to Caulifla.

[spoiler]No one knows what SSB really is ir how Vegeta got SSB and SSGSS As per the leaks, I think in Episode 99 Goku will try to teach Caulifa how to go blue, so lets wait and hope for some explanation[/spoiler]

[Doctor.]

The problem is nobody, not even the Toei writers themselves, have any idea what Super Saiyan Blue is anymore. It's supposed to give Goku and Vegeta nearly God-like power, but now that other characters are seemingly able to match it or fight alongside it like Zamasu/Black, 17, or the various other universe fighters...it seems to have lost all meaning.

Without Toriyama as the primary writer doing things like the manga, nobody has any clue had to balance power levels anymore.

I'm sure Toriyama was asked about how SSJB worked and its power and they probably got told It was up to them. I think Toriyama and Toyotaro even got confused, I assume it is Toei's fault since they brought the gold SSJ forms back. The original idea was Goku had the power of SSG in base because of absorbed God ki and SSJB was the result of that Saiyan going Super Saiyan. I guess SSJB was supposed to be 50x SSG? But they wanted to keep him under Beerus so that got nerfed because SSG fought on par with Beerus. Golden Freeza doesn't have god ki but yet fought on par with SSJB. I think thats where the strength stats and Blue got screwed up. I think giving "God ki" to mortals was a train wreck ready to happen but then they had to have a reason for SSJB's hair color so its anyones guess what really happened at this point. In my opinion SSG is God Ki in base and since it was barrowed absorbing the ki in base gave what we saw in RoF and Goku and Vegeta abadoned the state for whatever reasons assuming they can turn god ki on and off because they can go normal SSJ. Of course i think SSJB is SSJ+God Ki.

Why are you blaming the return of the SSJ forms on Toei?

[ekrolo2]

It's confusing because Goku calls it the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who's attained Super Saiyan God and then in the next arc, he's got regular SS and Blue. So, what the hell is Golden SS supposed to be if you don't believe in this two-base theory business?

And don't tell me "Blue is him not leaking ki!" when ki leaking is visualized as having an aura, something the shows still has them do with every form, Blue very much included. There's not much to debate here when Goku & Vegeta can only move in Whis' staff dimension when they ditch their auras, IE stop leaking ki.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I base my interpretation on what's been presented in the anime ONLY, so no extraneous pamphlets, no movies, no manga, just that singular product, since interpretations clearly differ to a degree between mediums.

Not letting their energy leak out (NOT the same as not having an aura, since it was visualized as brief bits of Ki coming off like steam over time) so that opponents can't sense it was influential to the attainment of SSB somehow, since doing this allowed Vegeta and Goku to taste that godly power for themselves without using a ritual. This is further supported by Kaio-ken only being usable with SSB thanks to the form's pure heart, power, and complete energy control (as said in the official Crunchyroll subtitles).

We also know that, according to the official Crunchyroll subtitles, SSB is a Saiyan with the power of SSG as a SS, or alternatively a Saiyan with the power of SSG turning into a SS.

It's my belief, based on these two things, that SSB is indeed a Saiyan with the power of SSG as a SS or turning into a SS......... by keeping his Ki from leaking to prevent it from being sensed. It goes like this:

A Saiyan must obtain the power of SSG somehow. Goku did so by absorbing SSG's power into himself, whilst Vegeta did so by training under Whis. Afterwards, they must learn to prevent their Ki from leaking out, and then turn SS when doing so, thus tapping into such power without requiring 5 other pure-hearted Saiyans to perform the SSG ritual. So, in my eyes, it's less separate power tapping, and more....... refined power tapping. Merely by possessing the power of SSG within themselves, Goku and Vegeta have surpassed their previous limits during the advent of Majin Buu by leaps and bounds.

But to use that power to its fullest, beyond the original form it was tied to? That requires a special kind of training to access it on-demand, a way to hold that power that slumbers within and enhance its potential. That's my own take on SSB.