Why so much hate with the Divine forms?

[gofishus]

Super Saiyan 4 was a stupid looking form that made no sense at all.

Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue have simplistic designs with slight changes just as was the case with pretty much all the other forms.

Super Saiyan was just his hair standing up and turning a different colour. In Vegeta's case his Super Saiyan form was just a recolour. Ascended Super Saiyan was practically the same with slightly bigger muscles. Super Saiyan 2 was practically the same except with slightly spikier hair.

There was a bigger change in appearance with Super Saiyan God than there was with some of these other forms.

That's an excellent way of looking at it and pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter completely.

Super Saiyan 4 is an extremely goofy-looking form to me and didn't really do a very good job of exemplifying what I would expect from the Dragon Ball franchise. In particular, I think its (incredibly bizarre) design was trying too hard to branch out from the previous transformations without any satisfying pay-off and it didn't really make a lot of sense to boot. Even assuming that Goku could "gain control" over his Golden Oozaru form, why would he randomly become a caveman with magic pants?

Super Saiyan God on the other hand had a very eloquent explanation, background and design behind it. From the red hair to the more defined spikes and even Goku's entire body structure changing, you could argue that it actually brought more changes to Goku's appearance than some of the standard Super Saiyan forms, but without looking busy or overly convoluted. It's just a simple, elegant design, and while I personally prefer it over Super Saiyan Blue, the latter form also carried this trait which certainly gives it a nice aesthetic flow.

Of all the post-Z forms so far, my ranking would definitely be Super Saiyan God > Super Saiyan Blue/Rose >>>>> Super Saiyan 4.

"why would he randomly become a caveman with magic pants?" but when fusion happens they get different clothes too and no one complains about that...

My ranking would be Super Saiyan 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan God >>>>> Super Saiyan Blue/Rose (lazy recolors and transformation is achieved off screen initally)

[Lord Frieza]

"why would he randomly become a caveman with magic pants?" but when fusion happens they get different clothes too and no one complains about that...

Sorry but I dont think you thought this comment through.

The fusion dance and the potara fusion are effectively magic...




Magic is a supernatural element that dose not conform to the laws of physics as we know them, more often then not conforming to its own rules aside from normal energy requirements. As seen above you can turn someone's hair into a plant or cloths beams. The fusion dance is a ritual dance to fuse to beings and the cloths are based on the creating species normal garments. The potara earrings belong to gods, supernatural entities, and are classed as magic items. People dont complain because funnily enough...



Trying to use them to discredit the very justified criticism of SS4's magic cloths makes no sense. SS4 is a natural transformation and its users have zero magical abilities beyond their use of the fusion dance, yet their cloths magically appear and resize while Goku goes from child to man in the blink of an eye. There is NO instory or any form of logical explanation for it.

So people can label it with a "Magic Pants" Critic Sticker and there absolutely nothing you or anyone can say to counter that.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Something I forgot to add to my post was now Toriyama is writing and drawing for a coloured medium now and we are seeing the creativity he is doing in all these new forms, he's no longer restricted by a Black and White Manga. Can't wait to see what he has in store for us for "Limit Breaker".

[Bullza]

Highly disagree. SSJ4 is the most original transformation out of all of them, and harkens back to the Oozaru form which Toriyama apparently forgot about after the Saiyan saga. Its a very clever and interesting transformation. SSB and SSR are just recolors completely agree with the OP.

I don't think the originality was a positive in this case. It looks completely out of place when compared to all the other forms.

Super Saiyan, Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 do not differ too much. Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue appropriately also do not differ too much.

Super Saiyan 4 looks like it belongs to a different show altogether.

Now had it looked like this



I'd have been perfectly fine with it. It's an other wise decent design and it looks like a natural progression from Super Saiyan 3 with traces of Oozaru in it. As he transformed into it from the Golden Oozaru too it would have made perfect sense.

As it is though, it's just plain weird.

[Saturnine]

No my opinion hasn't changed at all. Both SSG and SSB are still just awful recoloured transformations that had little to no thought put into them. SSJ4 has and always will be the superior transformation compared to them. Maybe this new form that Goku will achieve will actually be good and not just another recolour.

SSj4 isn't good simply because more thought was put into it. Sticking a cactus up your ass is also more difficult than doing the same with a dildo, but still that's no reason why you should try doing the former.

Also, agreed with Bullza. I'd have preferred SSj4 much more had it looked like in that picture. Makes more sense and is more logical, simple as. Hell, even the golden tail from SSj3 makes the form feel like a stepping stone towards it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

To be fair to SS4 it wasn't meant to be Super Saiyan related some guidebook said it was only named SS4 out of convenience, I think Toei should have had more conviction with it though. The idea of a new branch of transformations completely different to SS is pretty interesting but sadly like all of GT Toei messed up the execution and like Bullza says it just became a confusing form.

That said I do love SS4 Goku design, Vegeta though nope super ugly.

[Marlowe89]

It's funny. When people complain about the new forms being mere "recolors" (which of course is completely false in the case of SSG), I often ask them what their alternative would have been. What should these forms have looked like?

They proceed to post some fan-art, people take a look at said fan-art and hilarity ensues.

[Saturnine]

SSJ is iconic, and it's just spikyer hair that's gold. SSJ2 is basically the same thing with lightning, but only sometimes. And that's a lot of peoples favorite form. SSJ3 doesn't have much more than that except longer hair and lack of Eye brows. And even that looks ridiculous. (SSJ 3 is my favorite form) Then you get to SSJ 4 and Goku gets a full body transformation and all of a sudden no transformation is good enough unless the character gets a full body modification. The new form must have chest hair, A tail, eye liner, a cape, tribal tattoos, horns, claws, and grow a 10 foot beard to match the 10 foot hair. All that makes sense for the villains, because most of the villains are monsters and aliens. So when they transform they're going to look like monsters and aliens.

Hit the nail on the head there, buddy. Sums up a huge chunk of the Dragon Ball community to a T. What is it with people and jerking off to overdesigned characters so much? Like that golem-like "SSj10" Goku for example, lol. Classic.

Just browse this shit.

Ironically enough, many folks when making forms from SSj5 to SSj10, have them as nothing more than recolors of a long-haired SSj4

Also, who's to blame for the DB community leaning towards this sort of designs? I'd say Toei Animation and their theatrical movies, but to play the devil's advocate here - they mostly ripped off villains that Toriyama himself had created earlier.

[Shinda Forever]

I like SSgod because Goku's original hair recoulored magenta makes him look a badass. Sj blue just looks awful, honestly is ssj with green hair. I think Ssj blue concept is horrible, because it makes ssj god look pointless and underused. Furthermore, it was made too soon, we didn't have an arc where Goku and Vegeta used ssj god to master the transformation, instead Toriyama made that ridiculous mess about Goku using normal ssj and fighting at base after receiving ssjgod power. It was confusing and nobody knew if Goku was fighting in his base or at ssj god level. It was pathetic.

Highly disagree. SSJ4 is the most original transformation out of all of them, and harkens back to the Oozaru form which Toriyama apparently forgot about after the Saiyan saga. Its a very clever and interesting transformation. SSB and SSR are just recolors completely agree with the OP.

I don't think the originality was a positive in this case. It looks completely out of place when compared to all the other forms.

Super Saiyan, Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 do not differ too much. Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue appropriately also do not differ too much.

Super Saiyan 4 looks like it belongs to a different show altogether.

Now had it looked like this



I'd have been perfectly fine with it. It's an other wise decent design and it looks like a natural progression from Super Saiyan 3 with traces of Oozaru in it. As he transformed into it from the Golden Oozaru too it would have made perfect sense.

As it is though, it's just plain weird.

That looks great! I still prefer ssj 4 to ssj green.

[MKCSTEALTH]

My only problem with the forms is that it seems everyone has gotten to the point where they can keep up with the form. I can understand a select few but we've had a good handful of opponents fight Goku and Vegeta on equal footing in the form. To me that makes it a recolor. Plus we waited until 98 to officially establish in the anime that it has a stamina drawback, when before they would use it with little to no issue

Design wise, I much prefer SSJ4 over Blue, but hopefully should they give Goku a new form it'll be that one all, complete domination

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It's funny. When people complain about the new forms being mere "recolors" (which of course is completely false in the case of SSG), I often ask them what their alternative would have been. What should these forms have looked like?

They proceed to post some fan-art, people take a look at said fan-art and hilarity ensues.

People disliking the forms isn't a problem for me but their reasoning is, like I said before the reasonings of "lazy recolour" is stupid and false especially when the fanbase fawned over SS2 Gohan for decades yet SSG Goku got sooo many more changes compared yet is somehow "lazy".

[HeroR]

It's funny. When people complain about the new forms being mere "recolors" (which of course is completely false in the case of SSG), I often ask them what their alternative would have been. What should these forms have looked like?

They proceed to post some fan-art, people take a look at said fan-art and hilarity ensues.

People disliking the forms isn't a problem for me but their reasoning is, like I said before the reasonings of "lazy recolour" is stupid and false especially when the fanbase fawned over SS2 Gohan for decades yet SSG Goku got sooo many more changes compared yet is somehow "lazy".

Seriously, Super Saiyan 2 is the worst form in the series since it's literally Super Saiyan with spiker hair and lightning. To this day we have people arguing if Gohan was a Super Saiyan 1 or 2 against Dabura and without the lightning you can't even tell with Vegeta.

[Saturnine]

Lift up one strand of hair, add lightning, call it a new form - have people later complain about "recolors"

[Basako]

Gotta admit first time I saw the SSG and the ritual I didn't like it and I thought it was bullshit. Then appeared the SSB, making everything twice worse. But sometimes time changes minds, now I like them. What I still don't like is Black going SSR, I think he should have had the same transformations as Goku.

[ekrolo2]

Highly disagree. SSJ4 is the most original transformation out of all of them, and harkens back to the Oozaru form which Toriyama apparently forgot about after the Saiyan saga. Its a very clever and interesting transformation. SSB and SSR are just recolors completely agree with the OP.

I don't think the originality was a positive in this case. It looks completely out of place when compared to all the other forms.

Super Saiyan, Ascended Super Saiyan, Ultra Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 do not differ too much. Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue appropriately also do not differ too much.

Super Saiyan 4 looks like it belongs to a different show altogether.

Now had it looked like this



I'd have been perfectly fine with it. It's an other wise decent design and it looks like a natural progression from Super Saiyan 3 with traces of Oozaru in it. As he transformed into it from the Golden Oozaru too it would have made perfect sense.

As it is though, it's just plain weird.

My problem with all of the other forms besides 4 is that they have nothing in common with Oozaru. What does turning your hair spiky blonde, red or blue have to do with being a weird monkey space man? Turning Oozaru into a something of a humanoid shape to raise its power feels a lot more of a natural extension to what is the established Saiyan transformation whereas the SS forms, regardless of how much I like or dislike them, are the random one's in this case.

The real problem with four is like you said the color scheme, it should've been golden if Golden Oozaru is what proceeded it.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

SSG - fantastic, great aura! 8/10
SSB - underwhelming but decent. 6/10
Rosé - great transformation, absolutely subarashii ~ love Goku Black, brought a whole new shocking, twisted and beautiful transformation along with the Ki Blade and Scythe, best of all 3 imo. 10/10

#ZamasuDidNothingWrong #BlackIsBeautiful

I agree with you on the Rosé form, but I actually prefer SSB too SSG. That awesome Blue aura just seems so much cooler and "godly" than SSG, which is why I guess they discontinued the original SSJ God form. Unfortunately, with it being constantly used by both Goku & Vegeta, and its nature not being stated or well explained, SSB has become just a recolored version of SSJ1 or 2. It would've been fine to have just saved Blue for the super OP moments of the show, like the fight against Zamasu and Black (admittedly, SSB was used overall pretty well in FT arc). After all, it is the ultimate super saiyan form up to this point. Now, I've grown tired of it, so I can understand why the fandom hates these deity transformations now. They've been shoved upon us with no real explanation of why they're different from the original SSJ forms, just that they look cooler and are supposed to be more powerful.

I think at this point the only solution would be an SSGSS2 form, with a new color. Purple maybe? And there would (hopefully) actually be an explanation for this new form and why it is significant in relation to the rest. That or just have G&V so efficient with handling the god ki that it's in their base form, so there's no longer any need to transform. Of course that would have to be very near the end of the series, which I don't think we're at yet.

[Lionel]

Why does anyone complain about a species which seems to excrete more transformations than probably any other one throughout the known universe? I don't know. I lost my enthusiasm for bulky simian power ups some time back during the Buu arc. Give me more Kaioken because at least there's still some originality and intrigue in that technique.

[Yomi]

Why does anyone complain about a species which seems to excrete more transformations than probably any other one throughout the known universe? I don't know. I lost my enthusiasm for bulky simian power ups some time back during the Buu arc. Give me more Kaioken because at least there's still some originality and intrigue in that technique.

That was my reasoning this whole time. Why would the Saiyans have like 15 forms that look radically different.
People want horns, and more hair and fangs, and markings, extra appendages, and I'm just sitting here like "how would that biologically make any sense at this point?"

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It's funny. When people complain about the new forms being mere "recolors" (which of course is completely false in the case of SSG), I often ask them what their alternative would have been. What should these forms have looked like?

They proceed to post some fan-art, people take a look at said fan-art and hilarity ensues.

People disliking the forms isn't a problem for me but their reasoning is, like I said before the reasonings of "lazy recolour" is stupid and false especially when the fanbase fawned over SS2 Gohan for decades yet SSG Goku got sooo many more changes compared yet is somehow "lazy".

Seriously, Super Saiyan 2 is the worst form in the series since it's literally Super Saiyan with spiker hair and lightning. To this day we have people arguing if Gohan was a Super Saiyan 1 or 2 against Dabura and without the lightning you can't even tell with Vegeta.

Exactly, but at least Toriyama got more creative with Goku for SS2 and added those curling side bangs.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Toriyama's style has always been simple. Just look at the transformations of Super Saiyan (golden).

I do not know why, it seems that the appearance of SSJ4 somehow redefined all the '' standards '' than the transformations should be.
Toriyama always presented the forms with few changes, so I do not know what the real problem with SSB being an SSJ "recolor" (being that it has VARIOUS subtle changes in its appearance, including hair).