What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

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What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:14 pm

What if Zeno is not "physically" strong as we think he is? But rather he simply just has the power to "erase".

Just a thought...
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by precita » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:15 pm

That might have always been the case? He's obviously not a fighter, but the fact that he can erase you in 1 second with the flick of his finger is what makes him the most powerful being ever.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:17 pm

When the confirmation came that Zeno does not fight, I think that also confirms that he is not physically strong too. If he doesn't have the type of body suited for battle, how would he be strong?

Yeah, I don't think Zeno is strong. Which is another reason for there to have someone above him.
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Yedis » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:31 pm

What attack is better than erasing someone from existence? He really doesn't need to be strong.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:40 pm

It's certainly possible, but don't forget he TANKED his own multiversal destruction technique. Hell Vegeta even died when the earth blew up, even if it was because of lack of oxygen, still Zeno erased everything to complete nothingness, a void, with certainly NO oxygen at all.
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by precita » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:41 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:It's certainly possible, but don't forget he TANKED his own multiversal destruction technique. Hell Vegeta even died when the earth blew up, even if it was because of lack of oxygen, still Zeno erased everything to complete nothingness, a void, with certainly NO oxygen at all.
Well maybe he's just immune to his own power.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:49 pm

precita wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:It's certainly possible, but don't forget he TANKED his own multiversal destruction technique. Hell Vegeta even died when the earth blew up, even if it was because of lack of oxygen, still Zeno erased everything to complete nothingness, a void, with certainly NO oxygen at all.
Well maybe he's just immune to his own power.
If Zeno was really "physically weak" don't you think the Grand Priest, with all of his otherwordly power and abilities would have already overthrown him, kill him, or seal him away or whatever?
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:12 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
precita wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:It's certainly possible, but don't forget he TANKED his own multiversal destruction technique. Hell Vegeta even died when the earth blew up, even if it was because of lack of oxygen, still Zeno erased everything to complete nothingness, a void, with certainly NO oxygen at all.
Well maybe he's just immune to his own power.
If Zeno was really "physically weak" don't you think the Grand Priest, with all of his otherwordly power and abilities would have already overthrown him, kill him, or seal him away or whatever?
Easy manipulation? Fear? What he accidentally erases you while he is asleep as you try to erase him? Assuming he sleeps...

He don't fully know Zeno's backstory or what the Grand Priest has in store.
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by KingKaash » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:35 pm

There is a 15-minute MOD done in DBZ Tenkaichi 3 that's up on Youtube. The first 5 minutes seem realistic to what might occur at the end of ToP and hint to what you are saying. But I'll provide the video link and break it down in a spoiler section:

[spoiler]https://youtu.be/q99E_hyZKoY

So Goku wins the ToP and asks for the Universes to be wished back. But Zeno from our timeline says that his decree is absolute and he will not allow that to be reversed. Goku gets pissed that his friends from all other Universes are dead so he attacks Zeno in SSJB, I believe. Beerus is not seen but comments that Goku is a fool and should've kept quiet and walked away. But Goku all of sudden pounds away on Zeno. Whis then comments that no has actually ever fought with Zeno so no one knew his actual strength similar to what this thread is about.

After taking a brutal beating from Goku, Zeno uses the Potarra earrings to fuse with Future Zeno to form Fused Zeno. But still since Fused Zeno is not a fighter, he gets beaten up by Goku. Zeno decides he's had enough trying to beat Goku at his own fighting game and eventually uses his erase ability on the entire Universe.

This is where the relation to the show ends so I won't go any further on what happens in that video.[/spoiler]
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:02 pm

The two Zenos are able to follow the fights in the exhibition match and Tournament of Power, so that's at least something, even if they don't have any real fighting skills themselves.
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Zagacious » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:04 pm

Well I've always thought his powers were exaggerated. He seems to be able to erase things at will, but I believe that may be his only power. His speed doesn't seem immeasurable and Goku and Future Trunks were able to escape his erasure easily using the Time Machine.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:The two Zenos are able to follow the fights in the exhibition match and Tournament of Power, so that's at least something, even if they don't have any real fighting skills themselves.
[spoiler]According to episode 104, they cannot. They can't keep up with Hit and Dyspo's fight when I would argue they're probably not even going all out. Dypso might be but Hit definitely is holding back and the Zenos can't keep up. It's probably just a gag but it happened nonetheless. Grand Priest had to make a slowmo pad for them to watch to keep up.[/spoiler]

I don't think Zeno is necessarily weak, but definitely not invulnerable to everything and definitely not all powerful. Just a theory but I have a feeling one or both of the Zenos will erase the other ones, and cause a bit of chaos among the structure of the gods. It would make sense that only Zeno can erase Zeno, and sometimes I feel that's why they allowed another Zeno to exist.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Almighty Majin » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:16 pm

Well there are many characters in DB who have techniques that are way above their fighting ability like Spike the Devilman, Monster Carrot, and Guldo. It wouldn't really be surprising if that was also the case with Zeno since it's already stated that he doesn't fight, but has the ability to completely destroy things so he can't really be messed with.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:30 pm

Zagacious wrote:Well I've always thought his powers were exaggerated. He seems to be able to erase things at will, but I believe that may be his only power. His speed doesn't seem immeasurable and Goku and Future Trunks were able to escape his erasure easily using the Time Machine.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:The two Zenos are able to follow the fights in the exhibition match and Tournament of Power, so that's at least something, even if they don't have any real fighting skills themselves.
[spoiler]According to episode 104, they cannot. They can't keep up with Hit and Dyspo's fight when I would argue they're probably not even going all out. Dypso might be but Hit definitely is holding back and the Zenos can't keep up. It's probably just a gag but it happened nonetheless. Grand Priest had to make a slowmo pad for them to watch to keep up.[/spoiler]

I don't think Zeno is necessarily weak, but definitely not invulnerable to everything and definitely not all powerful. Just a theory but I have a feeling one or both of the Zenos will erase the other ones, and cause a bit of chaos among the structure of the gods. It would make sense that only Zeno can erase Zeno, and sometimes I feel that's why they allowed another Zeno to exist.
Well even if they can't keep up with two of the fastest fighters in the tournament it doesn't change the fact that they were able to keep up with many other strong and fast fighters.
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Zagacious » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:50 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Zagacious wrote:Well I've always thought his powers were exaggerated. He seems to be able to erase things at will, but I believe that may be his only power. His speed doesn't seem immeasurable and Goku and Future Trunks were able to escape his erasure easily using the Time Machine.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:The two Zenos are able to follow the fights in the exhibition match and Tournament of Power, so that's at least something, even if they don't have any real fighting skills themselves.
[spoiler]According to episode 104, they cannot. They can't keep up with Hit and Dyspo's fight when I would argue they're probably not even going all out. Dypso might be but Hit definitely is holding back and the Zenos can't keep up. It's probably just a gag but it happened nonetheless. Grand Priest had to make a slowmo pad for them to watch to keep up.[/spoiler]

I don't think Zeno is necessarily weak, but definitely not invulnerable to everything and definitely not all powerful. Just a theory but I have a feeling one or both of the Zenos will erase the other ones, and cause a bit of chaos among the structure of the gods. It would make sense that only Zeno can erase Zeno, and sometimes I feel that's why they allowed another Zeno to exist.
Well even if they can't keep up with two of the fastest fighters in the tournament it doesn't change the fact that they were able to keep up with many other strong and fast fighters.
[spoiler]It's not really that significant, it means they are visually or through energy sensing able to keep up with fights around Majin Buu's level, which is what I would put Dyspo at. Once Hit started trying he took down Dyspo with ease. Dyspo is nowhere near Hit's level, he just had a moment of countering Hit's timeskip technique and it caught Hit off-guard, other than that he couldn't even land a blow on him. Even the Kais were able to keep up with fights during the Buu saga. Sure Hit is probably relatively close to SSB Goku, but it's pretty obvious he didn't exert much effort to defeat Dyspo.[/spoiler]

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by avasatu » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:53 pm

It's explicitly stated by Whis that thinking of Zeno's strength in terms of battle power is the incorrect way of thinking about it.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by TheOne » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:56 pm

avasatu wrote:It's explicitly stated by Whis that thinking of Zeno's strength in terms of battle power is the incorrect way of thinking about it.
Exactly.

I don't know why in the world people think Zeno was a fighter. Whis literally explained this the first time we saw him at the end of the Champa arc. The ability to erase anything at will trumps very high battle power.

I'm actually a little agitated that there's even a topic about this.
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Lionel » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:59 pm

If his strength, perception and speed doesn't correlate to the potency of his erasure ability then it's possible, in theory, to overwhelm Zeno before he can react to any mishap. Well, first you would have to address the unknown variable that is his sentries. They probably have strength great enough to halt any would-be assassin in their place. Who knows, they might even be stronger than Daishinkan. You would have to be ensure the utmost protection for the Omni-King.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by Zagacious » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:00 pm

TheOne wrote:
avasatu wrote:It's explicitly stated by Whis that thinking of Zeno's strength in terms of battle power is the incorrect way of thinking about it.
Exactly.

I don't know why in the world people think Zeno was a fighter. Whis literally explained this the first time we saw him at the end of the Champa arc. The ability to erase anything at will trumps very high battle power.

I'm actually a little agitated that there's even a topic about this.
Because his abilities are vague at best and the fact his erasing is limitless was not actually stated? We're not talking about specific power level in comparison to other fighters, that would be pointless, but we're talking about how limitless or not his abilities are and if he has weaknesses or not, which is a highly discussed topic because it is so vague.

Even if one of the Angels outright stated 'Zeno's erasing power has no limit' there's no reason to believe them anyways. Think if you took a random Saiyan off of planet Vegeta and faced him next to Android 16 or Cell, he would seem limitless and all powerful in comparison. There's no reason to believe Angels or even Grand Priest knows the full extent of Zeno's powers. I'm sure a majority of Frieza's followers thought he was unbeatable and the most powerful being until they learned otherwise.
Last edited by Zagacious on Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by omaro34 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:04 pm

The real question is, where did Zeno come from? Does he have a beginning? Or is there something higher in the food chain?
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Re: What if Zeno is not as strong as we think he is?

Post by precita » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:05 pm

omaro34 wrote:The real question is, where did Zeno come from? Does he have a beginning? Or is there something higher in the food chain?
Zeno's father is probably time and space itself.

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