Kachi katchin

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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by BWri » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:59 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:It's bullshit. Plain and simple.

For a materiel that was denser than the strongest material from Universe 7, it seems so odd for it break apart so easily from characters much weaker than the Hakaishin of the universes fighting in the Tournament Of Power. It makes everything about the Iwne, Liquiir, and Arack fighting, destroying the stadium and rebuilding it personally all very much redundant. It's not a deal breaker with how much I'm liking the tournament, but it's a bit of a fuck up in a narrative sense as it's a really weird inconsistency.
Yup, just another inconsistency. At the very least it was misrepresented. I had gotten the impression that the stadium was adamantium levels of durability. No need to hype the stage up if it's going to crumble like paper from a jobber getting suplexed on it or from Roshi's thin human body slamming into it.
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Re: Katchi katchin

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm

Well it's possible that it could have similar properties to diamond. Diamond is the hardest natural material on Earth, and pretty much impossible to cut with anything other than a diamond blade, but it is vulnerable to being shattered by much weaker materials. An average human with a sledgehammer could smash a large block of diamond. That's because the hardness and toughness of materials are different properties. This article explains it well:

https://www.itworld.com/article/2833434 ... atter.html

Gohan attempted to cut the block of Katchin with a sword, a sharp edge, which is like trying to cut or slice a diamond - it failed. But if he had punched it? Maybe he would have smashed it.

So it's possible that Katchi Katchin has an extremely high Mohs hardness, but is much more vulnerable to fracturing and fragmentation.
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Re: Katchi katchin

Post by Zeru14 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:02 am

caiojoorge wrote:Shonen or not, you expect some kind of coherence.
It's not like it makes me unlike DBS. But it sounds like a plot hole. The biggest plot hole.
I hope that manga moves in a better way.
The manga most likely will be more consistent about Kachi Katchin, as shown in the Future Trunks arc, when Merged Zamasu was summoning Katchin blocks and hurling them at Goku and Vegeta, even they couldn't defend against them and they're god tier.

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Re: Katchi katchin

Post by TekTheNinja » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:55 am

Zagacious wrote:
TekTheNinja wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:If you boast about the durability of something in a shonen anime, you're just begging for it to be broken.
Yes, but only from VERY strong attacks, to further demonstrate how devastating the attack was. Caulifla managed to break off a huge chunk of it by just flipping a fat guy. That's lame and undermines the whole point of making strong attacks look more impressive. If everything looks super strong, nothing looks super strong.
This is the type of situation where power scaling is relevant to the story and being coherent. If everyone can break it easily, then that only makes the 4 Gods of Destruction not included in the ToP look weaker than they are. When it's not represented clearly, people start assuming crazy things like Roshi is god level now, and no one really knows how to assess anyone's power because it's all over the place. The Katchin not being dense is a small issue, but it's among many other similar issues of power representations in the show. Making attacks not look impactful or impressive cause everything is the same depending on who they randomly chose to make stronger that episode.

Everyone is 'blown away' equal distance when someone uses a 'strong' attack, whether they are damaged by it at all it's shown the exact same way. People of equal power fighting doesn't look any different than a really strong character sparring with a weak one for the most part. The way a person is shown when they are attacked, their facial expressions, body language, movement etc is the same when someone really strong hits them, vs someone who shouldn't be doing any damage hitting them, the reaction is the same. At some points there is absolutely no representation of power differences.
Quite exactly. People say power levels don't matter, and I understand that the exact numbers and specifics are superfluous bullshit, but a general idea of where everyone seems to stand on the power scale would be nice. Like, I still have no idea how strong Goku currently is in comparison to Beerus. I have no clue if Dyspo is actually really strong or just makes up for lack of strength with speed. I dunno if Roshi is outclassing much stronger opponents using tactics, or if they're just around his strength level, though I'd like to think it's the former. On that note, how much stronger is Roshi now, seeing as it's implied he got a lot stronger since Z. I ain't lookin' for specifics here, but I'd really like to get a general idea through context clues as to power.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:03 am

It is just a plot device introduced to let all fighters fight in a small mountain sized arena all out without blowing it up.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:03 am

apex_pretador wrote:It is just a plot device introduced to let all fighters fight in a small mountain sized arena all out without blowing it up.
I agree. One of the biggest problems people had with Z post Namek saga really, was that all their attacks should be able to obliterate the planet. I feel like this is Toriyama covering up by saying "they can go all out because the ring is Super hard". In other words, it's just an excuse for why the ring can survive everyone going all out.

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Re: Katchi katchin

Post by Shaqazooloo » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:04 am

TekTheNinja wrote: On that note, how much stronger is Roshi now, seeing as it's implied he got a lot stronger since Z. I ain't lookin' for specifics here, but I'd really like to get a general idea through context clues as to power.
He's apparently way stronger than ss3 Gotenks :lol:

Seriously though, I think he's around base Goku. Gano's was fighting Goku at one point in regular form and didn't get obliterated while Roshi was keeping up and taking hits from him in his transformed state and Roshi wasn't at max power.

This is just my opinion though, it's difficult figuring out where anybody stands.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Basako » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:32 am

The stage is totally destroyed and it is affected in similar way rocks do in Earth or any planet.

If only it was the Katchin we knew from before, but no, it's even harder, the hardest in the whole multiverse. Whatever, it was unnecessary, but this doesn't bother me much.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by buutenks » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:48 am

It isnt so hard to see how strong kachi-katchin is. Its basically:
Kachi-Katchin>Katchin>Steel.

Basically any ToP contestant could sneeze towards steel, and it would disintigrate. Which, makes sense to me.

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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by DBZ Macky » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:32 am

Chappil's skin is made of steel, and Goku can't damage him.
The stage is made up of Kachi Kachin (the strongest metal) and yet Vegeta can send Hop flying through it.

I knew it. Vegeta >>> Goku :lolno:
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:37 am

DBZ Macky wrote:Chappil's skin is made of steel, and Goku can't damage him.
The stage is made up of Kachi Kachin (the strongest metal) and yet Vegeta can send Hop flying through it.

I knew it. Vegeta >>> Goku :lolno:
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Saturnine » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:44 am

Yeah, there's definitely an inconsistency. The arena gets destroyed way too easily sometimes. While the feat of the GoDs clashing in melee wasn't matched by most warriors (except for Kale), sometimes just slamming into the arena destroys part of it as if it were mere stone. Kinda silly TBH, but oh well, what can you do.

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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Bullza » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:30 am

I wouldn't over think it too much. It's just sort of to explain why the stage itself doesn't get destroyed instantly.

If it were just any ordinary stage made of rock then people would just keep asking why it's able to maintain all these big explosions when Cell destroyed his arena in one little blast.

The stage is tough enough that it allows for these fighters to fight at full strength but not without it being damaged severely.

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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:12 pm

Bullza wrote:I wouldn't over think it too much. It's just sort of to explain why the stage itself doesn't get destroyed instantly.

If it were just any ordinary stage made of rock then people would just keep asking why it's able to maintain all these big explosions when Cell destroyed his arena in one little blast.

The stage is tough enough that it allows for these fighters to fight at full strength but not without it being damaged severely.
Something they could have done is have the Angels using their materialization powers to fix all of the damage as soon as it happened. That way you could have destruction and the stage remaining intact.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:16 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Something they could have done is have the Angels using their materialization powers to fix all of the damage as soon as it happened. That way you could have destruction and the stage remaining intact.
What would be the benefit of that? If they were going to do that then they might as well not damage the stage at all. It's just more work that wouldn't be necessary not only for the Angels in universe but for animators, except this time without the results of having the mountains and broken parts of the stage that make it less boring than the flat design it started out with. And all just so people don't have to deal with the fact that the hardest metal in the universe, can indeed, be broken by super powered fighters.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:23 pm

If the stage was made of something less it would get the same treatment the Lookout got when Gotenks fought Majin Buu up there. Completely pulverized and reduced to rubble in a matter of minutes. And that was just two people fighting.

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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:27 pm

The 80 "strongest" fighters of 8 Universes are fighting there. The fact there's still an arena in there is already impressive.
Keep the arena intact until the end would be lame. Seeing everything destroyed gives the sense of chaos this battle royal is supposed to give.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by Lionel » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:51 pm

If you wanted the alloy to be structurally consistent then nothing would be powerful enough to phase it; applying the manga's interpretation of Katchin's resilience might even be worse if you consider how a single cubed quantity of the native Universe 7 variety was enough to break Goku's arm and compel Vegetto to avoid the material when it was thrown at him. Applying past precedents would insinuate that the Kachi Katchin should be impervious to all but the strongest of the multiverses like Zeno's sentries, Daishinkan, and perhaps his progeny angels.

The studio is taking some massive creative liberties by allowing the fighters to haphazardly destroy bits and chunks of the arena when it shouldn't even have a dent or crack in it from newly transformed Goku and Jiren inevitably clashing with one another.

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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by TekTheNinja » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:52 pm

The point is, they should have either made kachi-katchin consistently durable or just used regular katchin since that would have been more believable. Why write in a completely new material and stress how much better it is than the older version of it if it's just going to work like the regular version of katchin anyway? It's just one out of many cases of bad writing in DBS.
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Re: Kachi katchin

Post by MaskedRider » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:08 am

There are a lot of factors to consider from previous posts. Even the test fight the Gods has showed it breaking, although expected considering their strength, showed that it is possible to break. Though we don't know for sure f it is the absolute strongest material in the multiverse just that it is stronger than the stuff mined in Universe 7.

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