Kachi katchin

[caiojoorge]

I've been thinking on this problem for a while, looking for someone here or in another forum that realized the same thing.
Ok, we don't know how much unbreakable the Katchin summoned by Shin was. The only thing we can see is it breaking the Z sword, but, again, we don't know how much breakable was the sword.
The point is: the Katchi katchin is said to be much stronger than Universe 7's Katchin!
When Daishinkan said that, I was like: OMG, WON'T SCRATCH A BIT. And when three Gods of Destruction fought for barely minutes and destroyed the arena just with ki, I was like: OOOOOMFG, THEY ARE AWESOME!

BUT
What we see in the tournament is unbelievable. For me, is acceptable that Goku and Vegeta's combined Final Kamehameha against the Trio De Dangers has broken some rocks.
But Kale destroying the ground around her just by shouting?
And Roshi destroying a rock with his body after a punch?
Is it really the hardest material in the multiverse? Or our fighters are too strong? Or we have a hole in the script?
What do you guys think?

[mute_proxy]

Katchin is metal, not rock. The arena is reenforced by it not made out of it

[caiojoorge]

Katchin is metal, not rock. The arena is reenforced by it not made out of it

[Boo Machine]

It really is strange.

It's true we don't really know just how strong the Katchin is, because the only thing we know for sure about it is that Base gohan couldn't cut it with a sword.

But when the grand priest introduces that the stage is built to be harder than the hardest material from Universe 7, you assume it's for a reason. Like maybe when the stage gets broken it's supposed to be impressive. But that isn't the case, it breaks like any old mountain.

So either, The material just isn't as strong as we lead ourselves to believe it is, or it's just being ignored and there was no reason to introduce it.

Either way I feel like it matters very little at this point. I prefer the stage broken up and it doesn't really create a "hole in the script". At worst it was just kind of pointless to say it's super hard except just to add some cool factor to the stage. It is built by the Angels of angles after all. Can't be using peasant material like, titanium, or Gloop gloop, or whatever other alien material.

[Ki Breaker]

snip

It's most likely a plot point introduced by Toriyama, this is an important part of the lore after all, he more than likely didn't intend it to break apart after lightweights fight, remembering how SSG fight itself caused severe damage with shockwave's alone when Goku wasn't in control of his power yet, even a greatly controlled fight between jiren who is above blue and Goku ( with his new form ) should be causing heavy damage which the stage needs to hold, just to not cause questions about how the hell it's holding up so well might be it's purpose of existence.

But surely that's likely being ignored like SS Goku black and they keep doing their thing like there's no tomorrow..

If people there were smart and the stage actually seemed impressive, they would create weapons with the stage itself, cut it in the shape of a sphere with your beams or something.. It's katchi katchin after all, shit's gonna be strong..

[BlueBasilisk]

If you boast about the durability of something in a shonen anime, you're just begging for it to be broken.

[GodKaio-Ken]

If you boast about the durability of something in a shonen anime, you're just begging for it to be broken.

This and the Titanic was unsinkable.

[caiojoorge]

Shonen or not, you expect some kind of coherence.
It's not like it makes me unlike DBS. But it sounds like a plot hole. The biggest plot hole.
I hope that manga moves in a better way.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Shonen or not, you expect some kind of coherence.
It's not like it makes me unlike DBS. But it sounds like a plot hole. The biggest plot hole.
I hope that manga moves in a better way.

Another explanation could be Grand Priest severely underestimating mortal strength. No need for a plot hole.

[fadeddreams5]

It's not a plot hole because they never mentioned it was unbreakable. It's bad writing and execution, which should be expected by now.

[Boo Machine]

Shonen or not, you expect some kind of coherence.
It's not like it makes me unlike DBS. But it sounds like a plot hole. The biggest plot hole.
I hope that manga moves in a better way.

A plot hole implies that it contradicts/or breaks anything storywise . At worst you could argue that it's an inconsistency, but it's far from the biggest plot hole.

[caiojoorge]

Like a said, we don't know how fragile is the metal. But Roshi's body is capable to break it? At least is disappointing right?

[Lord Beerus]

It's bullshit. Plain and simple.

For a materiel that was denser than the strongest material from Universe 7, it seems so odd for it break apart so easily from characters much weaker than the Hakaishin of the universes fighting in the Tournament Of Power. It makes everything about the Iwne, Liquiir, and Arack fighting, destroying the stadium and rebuilding it personally all very much redundant. It's not a deal breaker with how much I'm liking the tournament, but it's a bit of a fuck up in a narrative sense as it's a really weird inconsistency.

[Boo Machine]

Well Roshi breaking it would be the inconsistency part. I see why some might find it disappointing, but I personally don't find it so because I barely cared about what the stage was made out of to begin with. Also I prefer the stage to be busted up. Makes the stage less boring then it started out as. Also helps with the issue of having to show chaos on screen by covering the view of most of the ring with rubble.

[caiojoorge]

hehe, agreed.
But if the stage was supposed to be busted up since beginning, they shouldn't introduce the Kachi Katchin. In my opinion.
We even hadn't have know about this metal since there!
But ok, you guys won

[TekTheNinja]

If you boast about the durability of something in a shonen anime, you're just begging for it to be broken.

Yes, but only from VERY strong attacks, to further demonstrate how devastating the attack was. Caulifla managed to break off a huge chunk of it by just flipping a fat guy. That's lame and undermines the whole point of making strong attacks look more impressive. If everything looks super strong, nothing looks super strong.

[Zagacious]

If you boast about the durability of something in a shonen anime, you're just begging for it to be broken.

These are the small but important type of details that I feel are forgotten between episodes. I imagine after they showed the Gods of Destruction fighting before the ToP, they completely forgot to make the arena seem like it was made of Kachin. It's small things like this that make me feel like the writers don't really communicate. No, it's not terribly important, but when they call it to attention about how strong it is and then some of the weakest fighters in the tournament can easily break it it's kind of noticeable.

You expect to see peoples' falls/knockbacks being broken by the dense material, but they just fly right through it like it's just dirt on Earth. It's really not a big deal, but then it shouldn't have been called to our attention when the tournament started. This should give Dercori a sort of advantage because she can just shift through the objects, but pretty much everyone else can do it too very easily it seems. You could even potentially use the Katchin as a weapon after a piece has broken off because that's how dense it should be, but nope. They have bigger issues to work on though like not making everyone besides U7 fodder.

If you boast about the durability of something in a shonen anime, you're just begging for it to be broken.

Yes, but only from VERY strong attacks, to further demonstrate how devastating the attack was. Caulifla managed to break off a huge chunk of it by just flipping a fat guy. That's lame and undermines the whole point of making strong attacks look more impressive. If everything looks super strong, nothing looks super strong.

This is the type of situation where power scaling is relevant to the story and being coherent. If everyone can break it easily, then that only makes the 4 Gods of Destruction not included in the ToP look weaker than they are. When it's not represented clearly, people start assuming crazy things like Roshi is god level now, and no one really knows how to assess anyone's power because it's all over the place. The Katchin not being dense is a small issue, but it's among many other similar issues of power representations in the show. Making attacks not look impactful or impressive cause everything is the same depending on who they randomly chose to make stronger that episode.

Everyone is 'blown away' equal distance when someone uses a 'strong' attack, whether they are damaged by it at all it's shown the exact same way. People of equal power fighting doesn't look any different than a really strong character sparring with a weak one for the most part. The way a person is shown when they are attacked, their facial expressions, body language, movement etc is the same when someone really strong hits them, vs someone who shouldn't be doing any damage hitting them, the reaction is the same. At some points there is absolutely no representation of power differences.

[Alruneia]

Kachi-katchin is just a fancy word for the element of Toeium. Toeium, as we know, is a very strong metal normally, but will always bend to Toei's will. If Toei wants it to break, it will.

Joking aside: I'm pretty sure it's just the "This thing is unbreakable!" *thing breaks* trope, really. It doesn't always make sense, but it happens anyway.

[Ranmaru Rei]

Speaking by practical sense, it is absolutely flaw in design if whole arena made of Kachikatchin. it has meaning for base, but not for whole arena. Because if whole arena is made of Kachikatchin, it can cause damage to fighters. Just see to real fighting arenas. Just, for the same reason are not unbreakable by impact.

[BlueBasilisk]

As others have pointed out, we don't know anything about the strength of normal Katchin except that it's very heavy and was able to break the Z-sword. But the Z-sword wasn't what it was believed to be either and had only cut a rock at that point, so there's nothing to compare its durability against. It's entirely possible for it to be the hardest material available but not able to withstand the kind of pressures being applied to it.