Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:26 pm

Doctor. wrote:Every time I read "it makes no sense for this new character from this completely different universe with completely different rules, locations and methods of getting stronger to be this strong" I just have to roll my eyes. Seriously? Do you all lack imagination or something?
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll make it actually stupid somehow like U6 Saiyan's and to a lesser extent Hit are.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Doctor. » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:37 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Every time I read "it makes no sense for this new character from this completely different universe with completely different rules, locations and methods of getting stronger to be this strong" I just have to roll my eyes. Seriously? Do you all lack imagination or something?
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll make it actually stupid somehow like U6 Saiyan's and to a lesser extent Hit are.
I think Hit's perfectly fine (speaking of which, I have to continue that fanfic; ugh, uni can go fuck itself), because we never saw the larger part of his power progression. We saw some stupid shit vs Goku, but we're in the dark as to how he got so strong to begin with, which I have no problem with. The Saiyans are dumb because they're from a species we already know, who have to follow rules we already know about, and yet they break every single one.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:40 pm

We literally know nothing about him, he could be half God, or the fusion of his entire race, or maybe he's lived for thousands of years and his power is the result of training his entire life.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:45 pm

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Every time I read "it makes no sense for this new character from this completely different universe with completely different rules, locations and methods of getting stronger to be this strong" I just have to roll my eyes. Seriously? Do you all lack imagination or something?
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll make it actually stupid somehow like U6 Saiyan's and to a lesser extent Hit are.
I think Hit's perfectly fine (speaking of which, I have to continue that fanfic; ugh, uni can go fuck itself), because we never saw the larger part of his power progression. We saw some stupid shit vs Goku, but we're in the dark as to how he got so strong to begin with, which I have no problem with. The Saiyans are dumb because they're from a species we already know, who have to follow rules we already know about, and yet they break every single one.
Hit's not bad comparatively but it is really dumb that he can apparently throw down with God level fighters but his Time Skip has never, ever improved BUT he's developed far more advanced technique to muck around with time. The U6 Saiyan's didn't HAVE to follow the rules, the Super manga even had a tid bit about them eventually evolving out of having tails so there was literally no reason for them to have the standard mcdefault SS forms (and how to acquire them) beyond merchandise.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Miracles » Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:57 pm

Jiren is a pride trooper, a warrior who defends his world and universe by fighting bad guys.
He is suppose to be THIS strong.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:19 pm

It's nice to have a powerful enemy that is not using type of gimmicks to them. Jiren is probably strong from years of training just like Goku.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kastex » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:48 pm

i think it does make sense. think about it, you have guys like hit that can live, what 900+ years? you have guys like frieza that can go through saitama training and come back like 89458568723x stronger. perhaps jiren's race just happens to have both of those qualities to live very long and get insane gains from training. we know that frieza's race is very few in number, and it seems like hit's race is very few in number from what we can tell (since it seems hit's race is only in U6 and he is the only one from his race on team U6 despite him being the strongest). perhaps jiren's race is also few in number, or maybe he is a mutant.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by RedHeat » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:56 pm

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Every time I read "it makes no sense for this new character from this completely different universe with completely different rules, locations and methods of getting stronger to be this strong" I just have to roll my eyes. Seriously? Do you all lack imagination or something?
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll make it actually stupid somehow like U6 Saiyan's and to a lesser extent Hit are.
I think Hit's perfectly fine (speaking of which, I have to continue that fanfic; ugh, uni can go fuck itself), because we never saw the larger part of his power progression. We saw some stupid shit vs Goku, but we're in the dark as to how he got so strong to begin with, which I have no problem with. The Saiyans are dumb because they're from a species we already know, who have to follow rules we already know about, and yet they break every single one.
From a species in a parallel universe who are also centuries more evolved.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by TheMikado » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:55 pm

Kastex wrote:i think it does make sense. think about it, you have guys like hit that can live, what 900+ years? you have guys like frieza that can go through saitama training and come back like 89458568723x stronger. perhaps jiren's race just happens to have both of those qualities to live very long and get insane gains from training. we know that frieza's race is very few in number, and it seems like hit's race is very few in number from what we can tell (since it seems hit's race is only in U6 and he is the only one from his race on team U6 despite him being the strongest). perhaps jiren's race is also few in number, or maybe he is a mutant.
I think the point is he’s we know nothing about Jiren. Hopefully we will or at least something that makes him stand out besides being super strong. But as for Hit it did bother me how his time skip ability seemed to improve exponentially while fighting for now good reason. Not sure if that’s a trait of his biology or what?

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Beerus-sama » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:32 pm

TheMikado wrote:
I think the point is he’s we know nothing about Jiren. Hopefully we will or at least something that makes him stand out besides being super strong.
I agree.
I don't care about Jiren but it annoys me that he's getting attention just because he's strong and nothing else. For me, he isn't a cool character, he just stands there and does kiais to take his opponents far away from him. Ocasionally throws some ki blasts (in Kale's case) and thats it. Nobody attacks him, its all dull.

We don't need to have an explanation for why he's so strong, but atleast he should have some kind of personality or something for us to root for him, or being against him.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Retan » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:50 pm

I guess I'm confused on this hatred of Jiren as a character, he's supposed to be the big strong silent type, so secure in his power that he doesn't need to interact with lowly trash warriors (maybe the best there universes have to offer, but nothing compared to him). This is a common occurrence in every action series since the beginning of time, especially shonen anime and manga. Complaining about his outfit is fine the pride troopers outfit is pretty bland but not his design necessarily I love his buff look with those awesome eyes, maybe that just me though...

Anyway I feel it isn't fair to judge Jiren as anything but insanely strong until at least after this special.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:19 am

Retan wrote:I guess I'm confused on this hatred of Jiren as a character, he's supposed to be the big strong silent type, so secure in his power that he doesn't need to interact with lowly trash warriors (maybe the best there universes have to offer, but nothing compared to him). This is a common occurrence in every action series since the beginning of time, especially shonen anime and manga. Complaining about his outfit is fine the pride troopers outfit is pretty bland but not his design necessarily I love his buff look with those awesome eyes, maybe that just me though...

Anyway I feel it isn't fair to judge Jiren as anything but insanely strong until at least after this special.
True. I feel like he has a lot of potential as a character, but I don't know whether they'll go there or not. I feel like I can get a decent read on the kind of character he'll be by inferring a few things, but until the special gives us more to go on, it's little more than fan wank.

What I find most interesting about him is how unconcerned he is with Goku. Being the magnetic protagonist, Goku tends to attract strong feelings from both his friends and his enemies, but Jiren seems totally indifferent to him, like a problem he's going to have to get around to dealing with at some point. He's not an arch nemesis (Freeza, Piccolo) worthy adversary (Cell, Tenshinhan, Hit, Vegeta on a good day) or crazy stalker boyfriend (Zamasu, Vegeta on a bad day), he's just a dude out to save his Universe. I hope they don't have it so the fight with Goku is what pulls him out of his stoic rut and enjoy living again (I swear, Goku is like a Manic Pixie Dream Saiyan), it would make him even more of a Hit clone than he already is. Let the Pride Troopers be defender types who fight because they have to, not because they enjoy it.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Smilodon » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:16 pm

Like Freeza, he is the strongest being in his universe.... You just didn't like his design.
He is a super hero, like Goku.. He should be very skilled and trained fighter.
U11 could be more developed than U7, so he could be far stronger than U7 strongest fighter.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Big Black Sayian » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:22 pm

Jiren trains a lot. There you go

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by MrBlackFox » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:00 pm

Imo, the only way to not make Jiren exaggerated and making events post ToP is to never have Goku beat him, make Goku AND someone else - Gohan? - cooperate to take him down would be far more credible, always imo guys

Now it's like Goku at 7, Jiren at 50 lol, how strong would this new transformation has to be in order to surpass Jiren? Nah, not credible

And I also think there's something bigger about the grey friend, that shot in which Vermoud talks to him gives me the impression it menaced Jiren or controls him in some way
However we have Hit who's ridiculously strong, but the guy is pretty old :mrgreen: so unless Jiren has 100+ years I don't see many ways in which he could be so strong, maybe he's a prodigy more than Goku and Gohan, but always trained to death

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:57 pm

Doctor. wrote:The Saiyans are dumb because they're from a species we already know, who have to follow rules we already know about, and yet they break every single one.
they evolved enough to lose their tails and, most likely, their Giant Ape transformation.

Basically, U6 Saiyans are a different species and therefore subject to different rules.

Also: it's quite arguable the U7 Saiyans were generally hardly beyond 10k because they lacked empathy and wouldn't help much each other.
A more peaceful Saiyan race would collaborate to develop training methods to rise the lowest base-level and improve the higher levels... which is basically what Goku&co did. Thus explaining why the strongest U6 Saiyans are extremely strong and with no problem whatsoever in turning Super Saiyan once they learn how.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by gofishus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:23 pm

Frieza was the strongest being in the universe that everyone in the universe feared. From that standpoint, every villain past the Namek saga has no right to be that strong. They are strong because the storyline requires them to be. No more or less.. I mean does it make sense that a human from planet earth (Dr Gero) can create a being many times stronger than Frieza himself (Android 17) that then trains for a few months after the Buu saga to be on god level???

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kanious » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:57 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: Don't worry, I'm sure they'll make it actually stupid somehow like U6 Saiyan's and to a lesser extent Hit are.
I think Hit's perfectly fine (speaking of which, I have to continue that fanfic; ugh, uni can go fuck itself), because we never saw the larger part of his power progression. We saw some stupid shit vs Goku, but we're in the dark as to how he got so strong to begin with, which I have no problem with. The Saiyans are dumb because they're from a species we already know, who have to follow rules we already know about, and yet they break every single one.
Hit's not bad comparatively but it is really dumb that he can apparently throw down with God level fighters but his Time Skip has never, ever improved BUT he's developed far more advanced technique to muck around with time. The U6 Saiyan's didn't HAVE to follow the rules, the Super manga even had a tid bit about them eventually evolving out of having tails so there was literally no reason for them to have the standard mcdefault SS forms (and how to acquire them) beyond merchandise.
"god level"... Remember, the Shin [u7's kaioshin] is a god, and it is not strong. Having god ki doesn't mean anything at all about strenght

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Saturnine » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:06 pm

Not much in DB makes sense, but certain chars being stronger than others does make sense. I'll take Jiren being that strong over Omega Shenron being that strong, that's for sure. Especially since Shenron was killed by fucking King Piccolo earlier, right?

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by TheMikado » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:13 pm

Saturnine wrote:Not much in DB makes sense, but certain chars being stronger than others does make sense. I'll take Jiren being that strong over Omega Shenron being that strong, that's for sure. Especially since Shenron was killed by fucking King Piccolo earlier, right?
Shenron and Omega Shenron have nothing to do with each other. Those Dragonballs are directly proportional to the siz and scale of the wish and how much positive energy was expended. In the case of Syn Shenron he was born from the wish to bring back Namek and everyone who was killed by Frieza and his men.

Just goes to show who actually watched GT and who just $h*t posts about it on the internet.

The irony of this example is that even GT managed to give reasons for its main antagonists strength, particularly if they were overpowering the heroes. Whether those reasons were BS or not is a seperate conversation but at least in GT they existed.

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