Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Saturnine » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:30 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Saturnine wrote:Not much in DB makes sense, but certain chars being stronger than others does make sense. I'll take Jiren being that strong over Omega Shenron being that strong, that's for sure. Especially since Shenron was killed by fucking King Piccolo earlier, right?
Shenron and Omega Shenron have nothing to do with each other. Those Dragonballs are directly proportional to the siz and scale of the wish and how much positive energy was expended. In the case of Syn Shenron he was born from the wish to bring back Namek and everyone who was killed by Frieza and his men.

Just goes to show who actually watched GT and who just $h*t posts about it on the internet.

The irony of this example is that even GT managed to give reasons for its main antagonists strength, particularly if they were overpowering the heroes. Whether those reasons were BS or not is a seperate conversation but at least in GT they existed.
Oh please stop that, I have watched GT in its entirety, and nothing ever said or shown convinces me that any of the Shadow Dragons should be any stronger than Recoome at best. This whole "wish energy expeneded" is total bullcrap. Shenron's power is lesser than that of his creator by design. Just because he was able to grant all these mass wishes, doesn't mean it justifies the creation of enemies this powerful.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:50 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Doctor. wrote:The Saiyans are dumb because they're from a species we already know, who have to follow rules we already know about, and yet they break every single one.
they evolved enough to lose their tails and, most likely, their Giant Ape transformation.

Basically, U6 Saiyans are a different species and therefore subject to different rules.

Also: it's quite arguable the U7 Saiyans were generally hardly beyond 10k because they lacked empathy and wouldn't help much each other.
A more peaceful Saiyan race would collaborate to develop training methods to rise the lowest base-level and improve the higher levels... which is basically what Goku&co did. Thus explaining why the strongest U6 Saiyans are extremely strong and with no problem whatsoever in turning Super Saiyan once they learn how.
The U6 Saiyan's being more empathetic is precisely the problem. Cabba gets SS by Vegeta threatening him after a brawl, meaning that the anger trigger remains. So, you expect me to believe NO U6 Saiyan, in the entire history of the species, a species that actively fights a lot might I add, has ever gotten pissed off enough during a fight (where people get hurt, crippled, killed all the time) to transform into a Super Saiyan before Cabba. That they've never be threatened or beaten or saw someone else they love get threatened or beatened enough to activate SS. Really. Pardon my French ali taj odgovor može jebat sebi mater u šupak sa šipkon.

Now, in a version of Super that wasn't planned by a guy who was never good at planning back when he was actually good at anything in a show with an actual good production, someone would say "Hey, if U7 Saiyan's were dick heads who had to become good at heart to get SS, logically, the U6 Saiyan's who're good having the same SS trigger is fucking stupid! Lets make it something else!". Or better yet, how about making all U6 Saiyan's like Ultimate Gohan? No transformations ever at all, just really, really high potentials for Base strength that can go toe to toe with the various SS forms in power? Oh wait, Heroes can't give Cabba, Kale and Caulifla all the old forms for more merchandise then!

Yes, I'm aware I'm being a snarky prick with this but I REALLY detest the whole "U6 Saiyan's evolved differently!" excuse when the series gives them the same bloody SS trigger along with lazy, Goten and Trunks style gift wrapped SS forms later.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Simere » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:09 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:The U6 Saiyan's being more empathetic is precisely the problem. Cabba gets SS by Vegeta threatening him after a brawl, meaning that the anger trigger remains. So, you expect me to believe NO U6 Saiyan, in the entire history of the species, a species that actively fights a lot might I add, has ever gotten pissed off enough during a fight (where people get hurt, crippled, killed all the time) to transform into a Super Saiyan before Cabba. That they've never be threatened or beaten or saw someone else they love get threatened or beatened enough to activate SS. Really. Pardon my French ali taj odgovor može jebat sebi mater u šupak sa šipkon.
You're speaking as if Super Saiyans were common in U7; that it wasn't just a legend before Goku came along. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that we know is that Cabba had never heard of Super Saiyan. Just because Cabba hadn't heard of Super Saiyan doesn't mean it never happened before. Even if there were no living record of it in U6 that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by gofishus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:24 pm

Saturnine wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Saturnine wrote:Not much in DB makes sense, but certain chars being stronger than others does make sense. I'll take Jiren being that strong over Omega Shenron being that strong, that's for sure. Especially since Shenron was killed by fucking King Piccolo earlier, right?
Shenron and Omega Shenron have nothing to do with each other. Those Dragonballs are directly proportional to the siz and scale of the wish and how much positive energy was expended. In the case of Syn Shenron he was born from the wish to bring back Namek and everyone who was killed by Frieza and his men.

Just goes to show who actually watched GT and who just $h*t posts about it on the internet.

The irony of this example is that even GT managed to give reasons for its main antagonists strength, particularly if they were overpowering the heroes. Whether those reasons were BS or not is a seperate conversation but at least in GT they existed.
Oh please stop that, I have watched GT in its entirety, and nothing ever said or shown convinces me that any of the Shadow Dragons should be any stronger than Recoome at best. This whole "wish energy expeneded" is total bullcrap. Shenron's power is lesser than that of his creator by design. Just because he was able to grant all these mass wishes, doesn't mean it justifies the creation of enemies this powerful.
"This whole "wish energy expeneded" is total bullcrap. "

At least they had a reason. Better than Jiren's reason as just 'being an absurdly powerful alien from another universe' or Android 17 training a few months and being God tier or Golden Frieza being a 'prodigy'. You want to talk to me about Bullcrap power level justifications? Nothing tops Super.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:31 pm

Do we really need a competition about which series has more bullshit? Is "which is dumber" the measuring stick we're using now?

Since when did we need some backstory or detailed explanation about why *Current Villain* is as strong as they are? They are that powerful just because they are. Dragonball is the king at making random bad guy powerful because magic or race. It's very rare the "why" actually matters to the story. It's about how and if our heros will overcome the obstacle. Doesn't matter if it's Super, GT or whatever.

Freeza was strong because alien (at the time of Namek), Androids are strong because science, and Buu is strong because...Just because. The only villain I can think of that has had progression in strength, that we more or less witnessed, was Baby.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:39 pm

Simere wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:The U6 Saiyan's being more empathetic is precisely the problem. Cabba gets SS by Vegeta threatening him after a brawl, meaning that the anger trigger remains. So, you expect me to believe NO U6 Saiyan, in the entire history of the species, a species that actively fights a lot might I add, has ever gotten pissed off enough during a fight (where people get hurt, crippled, killed all the time) to transform into a Super Saiyan before Cabba. That they've never be threatened or beaten or saw someone else they love get threatened or beatened enough to activate SS. Really. Pardon my French ali taj odgovor može jebat sebi mater u šupak sa šipkon.
You're speaking as if Super Saiyans were common in U7; that it wasn't just a legend before Goku came along. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that we know is that Cabba had never heard of Super Saiyan. Just because Cabba hadn't heard of Super Saiyan doesn't mean it never happened before. Even if there were no living record of it in U6 that wouldn't necessarily be the case.
I never said U7 SSs were common but thank you for raising another point, back wards morons like the U7 Saiyan's, who could only get it under very difficult (for them) circumstances know that something like it existed before but U6 Saiyan's, who can get it easier since THREATENING THEM gets you one, apparently create one in their entire history. Even though they're more powerful by a wide margin then their U7 counterparts on average and it takes a few meanie words to make them go nuts?

I'll say it again: giving the U6 Saiyan's big empathy + the Namek reason for activating SS was another in a long series of dumb creative decisions concerning them. It's literally impossible for you to be a warrior race who apparently fights constantly and NEVER sees a comrade or relative or ally die or get wounded in battle without flipping out and turning into a blonde rage monster.
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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by TheMikado » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 pm

gofishus wrote:
Saturnine wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Shenron and Omega Shenron have nothing to do with each other. Those Dragonballs are directly proportional to the siz and scale of the wish and how much positive energy was expended. In the case of Syn Shenron he was born from the wish to bring back Namek and everyone who was killed by Frieza and his men.

Just goes to show who actually watched GT and who just $h*t posts about it on the internet.

The irony of this example is that even GT managed to give reasons for its main antagonists strength, particularly if they were overpowering the heroes. Whether those reasons were BS or not is a seperate conversation but at least in GT they existed.
Oh please stop that, I have watched GT in its entirety, and nothing ever said or shown convinces me that any of the Shadow Dragons should be any stronger than Recoome at best. This whole "wish energy expeneded" is total bullcrap. Shenron's power is lesser than that of his creator by design. Just because he was able to grant all these mass wishes, doesn't mean it justifies the creation of enemies this powerful.
"This whole "wish energy expeneded" is total bullcrap. "

At least they had a reason. Better than Jiren's reason as just 'being an absurdly powerful alien from another universe' or Android 17 training a few months and being God tier or Golden Frieza being a 'prodigy'. You want to talk to me about Bullcrap power level justifications? Nothing tops Super.
Exactly.

So I don’t know what Saturine is basing this idea that the shadown dragons should be “no stronger than Recoome”
WHAT is this based on?????? No one said Jiren can’t be strong, it just doesn’t make sense that he’s just randomly this strong, like extraordinarily strong and it being treated pretty casually be everyone, including the people who do know how strong he is. As the original poster stated the main enemies were given all kinds of BS plot devices and plot armor. The same kind that Superman gets for being a Kryptonian or the kind Batman gets for being the worlds greatest detective with prep time...

Further just to show the contrast, Recoome is a fantastic example of the differences in execution. We know Zero about Recoome. He’s a lackey in the elite Ginyu force and pretty darn strong. So why do we just accept it??? Because Recoome is never played up as the pinnacle of power he doesn’t need a reason to be that strong because he really is just some random enemy that happened to give them some trouble. Jiren is not that. He is being painted as the central opposition force and antagonist. We want to know WHY Jiren is such a threat. We want to know WHY Jiren is the top dog and what makes him so extraordinarily special. Thank you for your Recoome example because it was perfect. Jiren is basically being characterized as a Recoome with far less personality at this point but being played up to Frieza level antagonist without much to make us consider him a threat then staring down Goku a few times and easily disposing of a few people that shouldn’t be on Goku’s level anyway.

To emphasize what I mean, everyone says Goku held back against Kale. Fine so why should we be impressed when Jiren takes her out of Goku should be able to do that pretty easily as well? It’s like trying to prove how much superior Frieza was to Namek Goku by having Frieza take out Burter. It’s execution would fall completely flat.

Again we should reserve judgement until everything is out but let’s not act like we have the same levels of doom or dread from the antagonist despite playing with the highest stakes yet. We aren’t threatened by Jirens power because we have not seen anything that shows he’s so much stronger than Goku to begin with other than promotional materials.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:55 am

Jiren is from the 5th best universe in the entire DB Cosmos. No wonder some strong guy would be in there, since the gods are doing their job, which naturally leads to the standards being higher there, than in the backwater Universe 7.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:04 am

Kanious wrote:
"god level"... Remember, the Shin [u7's kaioshin] is a god, and it is not strong. Having god ki doesn't mean anything at all about strenght
Shin is strong. He's just weak compared to the Saiyans. Remember, this is the same person who scared Piccolo into defeat.
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Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:28 am

Well, to add fuel to this fire, the trailer for the special has a shot of Goku kicking Jiren in the head while in Kaioken Blue and it appeared to do nothing. The kick practically bounced off his head.

A kick from Kaioken Blue was enough to hurt Merged Zamasu, a Potara Fusion! But Jiren DGAF. If he doesn't turn out to be the strongest mortal, I don't know how where they could go that could top him.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:44 am

Kataphrut wrote:Well, to add fuel to this fire, the trailer for the special has a shot of Goku kicking Jiren in the head while in Kaioken Blue and it appeared to do nothing. The kick practically bounced off his head.

A kick from Kaioken Blue was enough to hurt Merged Zamasu, a Potara Fusion! But Jiren DGAF. If he doesn't turn out to be the strongest mortal, I don't know how where they could go that could top him.
Merged Zamasu was also suppressed since he fought Vegetto Blue and took a Final Kamehameha to the face.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Saturnine » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:50 am

gofishus wrote: At least they had a reason. Better than Jiren's reason as just 'being an absurdly powerful alien from another universe' or Android 17 training a few months and being God tier or Golden Frieza being a 'prodigy'. You want to talk to me about Bullcrap power level justifications? Nothing tops Super.
To be quite honest, no explanation at all can be better than an unconvicinv explanation. Because that way you at least have room to fill in the blanks yourself.

And we still might get some exposition on why Jiren is so powerful sometime. The chances are slim, since Dragon Ball was never very heavy on backstories, but still.

I'm sure the denizens of all those jobber universes are also quite surprised as to why guys from U7 are so powerful, considering it should be a shit universe. And indeed - go back 20 years, and your most powerful character in the universe BY FAR is Freeza with a max power of 120 million. His top minions were considered to be right below him in power, so I wouldn't be surprised if Freeza, the Ginyu Force, Zarbon, Dodoria, Cui and Vegeta were chosen as a team 20 years earlier. And they'd probably get their asses kicked super quickly too.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:01 am

Kataphrut wrote:Well, to add fuel to this fire, the trailer for the special has a shot of Goku kicking Jiren in the head while in Kaioken Blue and it appeared to do nothing. The kick practically bounced off his head.

A kick from Kaioken Blue was enough to hurt Merged Zamasu, a Potara Fusion! But Jiren DGAF. If he doesn't turn out to be the strongest mortal, I don't know how where they could go that could top him.
Well as I already mentioned in some thread that we know there are stronger universes out there not competing. I think it would stand to reason that even if Jiren is the strongest character in the TOP he may not be the strongest mortal out there. After all what would be the goal once Jiren is beat?

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by gofishus » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:39 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:Well, to add fuel to this fire, the trailer for the special has a shot of Goku kicking Jiren in the head while in Kaioken Blue and it appeared to do nothing. The kick practically bounced off his head.

A kick from Kaioken Blue was enough to hurt Merged Zamasu, a Potara Fusion! But Jiren DGAF. If he doesn't turn out to be the strongest mortal, I don't know how where they could go that could top him.
Well as I already mentioned in some thread that we know there are stronger universes out there not competing. I think it would stand to reason that even if Jiren is the strongest character in the TOP he may not be the strongest mortal out there. After all what would be the goal once Jiren is beat?
Well for one thing, they wouldn't mention that about a mortal stronger than god and not have him competing in the tournament, and secondly, 'stronger' doesn't necessarily mean power level. This has been debunked. It means morally strong not 'power level' strong. Those universes just have more 'good' people

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Saturnine » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:42 pm

gofishus wrote: Well for one thing, they wouldn't mention that about a mortal stronger than god and not have him competing in the tournament, and secondly, 'stronger' doesn't necessarily mean power level. This has been debunked. It means morally strong not 'power level' strong. Those universes just have more 'good' people
Yeah, except the wording was "a mortal that even a God of Destruction can't defeat, and that GoD is stronger than Lord Beerus".

Also, you're wrong here. Stronger does indeed mean "higher power level". What you're probably referring to is the "mortal level", which is the ranking that Zen-oh ranks the universes by. This indeed is not equivalent to power of the universe's inhabitants, though power may or may not be one of the factors used in the determination.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:46 pm

gofishus wrote:
Kinokima wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:Well, to add fuel to this fire, the trailer for the special has a shot of Goku kicking Jiren in the head while in Kaioken Blue and it appeared to do nothing. The kick practically bounced off his head.

A kick from Kaioken Blue was enough to hurt Merged Zamasu, a Potara Fusion! But Jiren DGAF. If he doesn't turn out to be the strongest mortal, I don't know how where they could go that could top him.
Well as I already mentioned in some thread that we know there are stronger universes out there not competing. I think it would stand to reason that even if Jiren is the strongest character in the TOP he may not be the strongest mortal out there. After all what would be the goal once Jiren is beat?
Well for one thing, they wouldn't mention that about a mortal stronger than god and not have him competing in the tournament, and secondly, 'stronger' doesn't necessarily mean power level. This has been debunked. It means morally strong not 'power level' strong. Those universes just have more 'good' people

Even if that is true I think it is pretty obvious there are going to be stronger characters than Jiren. As the show goes on we will be introduced to stronger antagonists and the protagonists will get stronger too. That's always been the Dragon Ball formula roughly speaking.

And the fact that there are other Universes means there is definitely more potential for stronger characters. In fact I think that is why they said some Universes aren't competing so later on they can introduce those Universes and more characters to us. Do you really think those Universes won't come into the story eventually at all?

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by gofishus » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:50 pm

Kinokima wrote:
gofishus wrote:
Kinokima wrote:
Well as I already mentioned in some thread that we know there are stronger universes out there not competing. I think it would stand to reason that even if Jiren is the strongest character in the TOP he may not be the strongest mortal out there. After all what would be the goal once Jiren is beat?
Well for one thing, they wouldn't mention that about a mortal stronger than god and not have him competing in the tournament, and secondly, 'stronger' doesn't necessarily mean power level. This has been debunked. It means morally strong not 'power level' strong. Those universes just have more 'good' people

Even if that is true I think it is pretty obvious there are going to be stronger characters than Jiren. As the show goes on we will be introduced to stronger antagonists and the protagonists will get stronger too. That's always been the Dragon Ball formula roughly speaking.

And the fact that there are other Universes means there is definitely more potential for stronger characters. In fact I think that is why they said some Universes aren't competing so later on they can introduce those Universes and more characters to us. Do you really think those Universes won't come into the story eventually at all?
That depends on how long they want to make Super, or a sequel to Super (which would completely override GT I guess). Of course if they want to continue the story they can keep introducing stronger and stronger characters but we're at the point now where we have a character that can create or destroy universes at will. Don't really see anything topping that.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by TheMikado » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:52 pm

Saturnine wrote:
gofishus wrote: At least they had a reason. Better than Jiren's reason as just 'being an absurdly powerful alien from another universe' or Android 17 training a few months and being God tier or Golden Frieza being a 'prodigy'. You want to talk to me about Bullcrap power level justifications? Nothing tops Super.
To be quite honest, no explanation at all can be better than an unconvicinv explanation. Because that way you at least have room to fill in the blanks yourself.

And we still might get some exposition on why Jiren is so powerful sometime. The chances are slim, since Dragon Ball was never very heavy on backstories, but still.

I'm sure the denizens of all those jobber universes are also quite surprised as to why guys from U7 are so powerful, considering it should be a shit universe. And indeed - go back 20 years, and your most powerful character in the universe BY FAR is Freeza with a max power of 120 million. His top minions were considered to be right below him in power, so I wouldn't be surprised if Freeza, the Ginyu Force, Zarbon, Dodoria, Cui and Vegeta were chosen as a team 20 years earlier. And they'd probably get their asses kicked super quickly too.
I'm not sure how having everyone make up their own head canon is better, especially for such a prominent and central figure.

Also, its really weird because the Grand Priest specifically says that U6 & U7 are the universes to watch and it makes sense for Universe 6 to be so powerful because it's the twin of 7. So it seems like the Grand Priest already thinks U6/7 should be the most powerful for some reason which is why Jiren being this randomly powerful and his universe not thought of anything special by the Grand Priest but getting specific comments on universe 6/7 doesn't add up or make sense. But I just attribute that to poor planning, directing, and consistent writing.

Your point about 20 years ago is also super strange with the Grand Priests comments about universe 6&7. I just don't think consistent and well thought out writing and lore were applied.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:54 pm

gofishus wrote:
Kinokima wrote:
gofishus wrote:
Well for one thing, they wouldn't mention that about a mortal stronger than god and not have him competing in the tournament, and secondly, 'stronger' doesn't necessarily mean power level. This has been debunked. It means morally strong not 'power level' strong. Those universes just have more 'good' people

Even if that is true I think it is pretty obvious there are going to be stronger characters than Jiren. As the show goes on we will be introduced to stronger antagonists and the protagonists will get stronger too. That's always been the Dragon Ball formula roughly speaking.

And the fact that there are other Universes means there is definitely more potential for stronger characters. In fact I think that is why they said some Universes aren't competing so later on they can introduce those Universes and more characters to us. Do you really think those Universes won't come into the story eventually at all?
That depends on how long they want to make Super, or a sequel to Super (which would completely override GT I guess). Of course if they want to continue the story they can keep introducing stronger and stronger characters but we're at the point now where we have a character that can create or destroy universes at will. Don't really see anything topping that.

The show is doing fine in ratings and merchandise sales apparently. I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.

And I agree with you the character's power levels are already ridiculous which is personally why I don't care about power levels all that much. But I don't think this is going to stop them from making more of Super.

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Re: Actually, it makes no sense for Jiren to be THIS strong..

Post by TheMikado » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:56 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Simere wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:The U6 Saiyan's being more empathetic is precisely the problem. Cabba gets SS by Vegeta threatening him after a brawl, meaning that the anger trigger remains. So, you expect me to believe NO U6 Saiyan, in the entire history of the species, a species that actively fights a lot might I add, has ever gotten pissed off enough during a fight (where people get hurt, crippled, killed all the time) to transform into a Super Saiyan before Cabba. That they've never be threatened or beaten or saw someone else they love get threatened or beatened enough to activate SS. Really. Pardon my French ali taj odgovor može jebat sebi mater u šupak sa šipkon.
You're speaking as if Super Saiyans were common in U7; that it wasn't just a legend before Goku came along. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that we know is that Cabba had never heard of Super Saiyan. Just because Cabba hadn't heard of Super Saiyan doesn't mean it never happened before. Even if there were no living record of it in U6 that wouldn't necessarily be the case.
I never said U7 SSs were common but thank you for raising another point, back wards morons like the U7 Saiyan's, who could only get it under very difficult (for them) circumstances know that something like it existed before but U6 Saiyan's, who can get it easier since THREATENING THEM gets you one, apparently create one in their entire history. Even though they're more powerful by a wide margin then their U7 counterparts on average and it takes a few meanie words to make them go nuts?

I'll say it again: giving the U6 Saiyan's big empathy + the Namek reason for activating SS was another in a long series of dumb creative decisions concerning them. It's literally impossible for you to be a warrior race who apparently fights constantly and NEVER sees a comrade or relative or ally die or get wounded in battle without flipping out and turning into a blonde rage monster.
To make this like 10000000000% weirder is that Champa and Vados both mention that they have NEVER heard of Saiyans having the ability to transform. I would think they would know something like that, especially if one of those saiyans turning SSJ would have made them one of the most powerful mortals in the universe. This always rubs me the wrong way because if SSJ is SOOOOOO easy for these guys to achieve why is it that Champa who is probably 75 million years old and Vados who is probably even older than that and specifically looks after the universe have never heard of such a thing unless it never happened in their universe, yet they can tingle their back and probably sneeze into SSJ at this point...

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