DBS is awful

[perucho1990]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. When was it ever stated that Toriyama was the one who brought SSG back for that arc?

Toyotaro, in his interview in Italy, said that any idea Toriyama likes from the manga, he includes in the anime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdHqHnK-FvY

2:40-2:50.

Super is one of those rare shows where the sum of its mediocre parts actually makes the entire product overall worse. I’ll give a good example, the reinclusion of of SSG in the ToP after spamming SSB is awfully executed.

It shows a total lack of planning and direction from where ever the direction is coming from.
When an idea is brought in it shows a poor execution of the idea or concept.
This concept feels awkward and after the thought.
Further the flanderization of the character further makes this feel off as you don’t feel the character isn’t even smart enough to retroactively realize all the times he should have been using it.
Further the fight it’s sequenced in, while average and not terrible by any means lacks the payoff for the absurd plot point of suddenly being back the poorly planned and executed form.

To in the end, you have something that conceptually falls flat and worse than the individual parts.

Other examples are the two female characters. Independently they have mediocre concepts.
Terrible one dimensional personalities, designs that some may find unattractive, unjustified power ups.
Any one of these issues would be annoying but passable as long as he others fail into place. The problem is that so much about them is mediocre that it makes the total presented package even worse than the individual parts.

So no, on a technical level Supers individual parts are not back, however when taken into totality it breaks down concepts and executions across the board which is the number one issue. It excels at nothing while simultaneously interweaving the broken and mediocre parts to weave and increasingly ugly tapestry that is of worse quality then the individual threads which compose it.

The problem is Toriyama, he likes an idea from the manga, and then he tells Toei Stuff "Look include this from the manga, because I like it and makes the story better", thats what Toyotaro said here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdHqHnK-FvY

About Caulifla and Kale: Imo The main problem is the miscast of their voices, Caulifla is fine, although I wish they got Ami Koshimizu to voice her, she would give her character more personality(She was Ryuko in Kill la Kill), and of course the main issue is Kale, Yukana is a terrible seiyuu(for a reason Pierrot gave her a minor role in Bleach) she is a poor version of Nana Mitsuki.

Great seiyuus can make characters better than expected(Shinchiro Miki voicing Zamasu for example).

I agree about the lack of explanations, specially on Kale, with Caulifla at least they mentioned she had great potential.

[namekiansaiyan]

As usual the only major complaint I have is the lack of character usage from Toriyama and Toei.

The Future Trunks arc is the most pointless arc in the series as all that happened was they went back and forward in time until they realised it was over and called Zeno to finish Black amd Zamasu off. It was basically just a filler arc.

[TheMikado]

As usual the only major complaint I have is the lack of character usage from Toriyama and Toei.

The Future Trunks arc is the most pointless arc in the series as all that happened was they went back and forward in time until they realised it was over and called Zeno to finish Black amd Zamasu off. It was basically just a filler arc.

According to my theory that’s exactly what it was designed to be.

[Freeza9000]

Question: What is the whole point of this entire thread?

You know what, since this thread has nothing going for it besides it being yet another redundant rantfest, I might as well begin a tirade of my own, shall we?

What really grinds my gears the most are the hypocrites that routinely throw constant bitchfests about how Dragon Ball Super has violated their lives and how torturous it is to watch it yet continue to keep up with the series 100+ episodes. The same people that always proclaim how much they want to drop the show only to pick it up and watch it again. The same people that are so goddamn egotistical to the point where they feel the essential need to go to every forum and comment section to derogate and label everyone a "Supertard", "NostalgiaFag", etc., but can't tell the difference between what a fact and an opinion is.

[Kanassa]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. When was it ever stated that Toriyama was the one who brought SSG back for that arc?

Toyotaro, in his interview in Italy, said that any idea Toriyama likes from the manga, he includes in the anime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdHqHnK-FvY

2:40-2:50.

So, he didn't say it was Toriyama who decided to bring SSG back for the TOP?

[SaiyanGod117]

The last season of Samurai Jack wasnt targereted for kids, it was always aimed to the old audience, unlike DBS, in which they want to create a new audience, meaning they dont care about old fans, its clear .

Which means almost squat since the first four seasons were aimed at kids, hence the lack of blood and being aired on Cartoonnetwork. And as Sintzu pointed Dragon Ball and Z was also aimed at kids, literally almost every manga that ran on Weekly Shounen Jump that was eventually adapted into a show was aimed at kids I.E. Naruto, One Piece, Ruroni Kenshin, Yu Yu Haukso, etc.

They treat the show as half gag series, half serious series. Never treat DBS as a 100% serious series.

Yes in other words a action anime teetering on edges of being a slap stick spoof comedy.
[/quote]If you and other people here want DBS to be like Z, just go to twitter, and spam Toei twitter account, begging to hire Shingo Natsume, the man behind OPM anime.[/quote]
I never said, I wanted it to be like Z. What I want it to be is decently written and animatied aleast for today’s standard.

you throw in the word "objectively" like it's some ultimate magic spell that supposed to make what you say fact. Which I notice you do quite often.

Yes objectively, as in observing with analysis or measurement, you can objectively say the movie John wick or The Matrix was better directed and written than The Specilasit or The incredibles or Finding Nemo was better directed and written than the Emoji movie with observation and analysis. By looking at other good works that came before, and comparing and contrasting the direction techniques.

[TheMikado]

Question: What is the whole point of this entire thread?

You know what, since this thread has nothing going for it besides it being yet another redundant rantfest, I might as well begin a tirade of my own, shall we?

What really grinds my gears the most are the hypocrites that routinely throw constant bitchfests about how Dragon Ball Super has violated their lives and how torturous it is to watch it yet continue to keep up with the series 100+ episodes. The same people that always proclaim how much they want to drop the show only to pick it up and watch it again. The same people that are so goddamn egotistical to the point where they feel the essential need to go to every forum and comment section to derogate and label everyone a "Supertard", "NostalgiaFag", etc., but can't tell the difference between what a fact and an opinion is.

I haven’t actually seen that type of name calling on this forum. Are you sure you aren’t confusing this with another forum you regularly post on?

[Boo Machine]

Yes objectively, as in observing with analysis or measurement, you can objectively say the movie John wick or The Matrix was better directed and written than The Specilasit or The incredibles or Finding Nemo was better directed and written than the Emoji movie with observation and analysis. By looking at things that came before and comparing and contrasting.

Sure. But you didn't do that. You rattled off a list of things you think suck about Super and then said it was Objectively true and it was pretty much the same thing you always say in other threads. Not much analysis went into your original post.

[SaiyanGod117]

Yes objectively, as in observing with analysis or measurement, you can objectively say the movie John wick or The Matrix was better directed and written than The Specilasit or The incredibles or Finding Nemo was better directed and written than the Emoji movie with observation and analysis. By looking at things that came before and comparing and contrasting.

Sure. But you didn't do that. You rattled off a list of things you think suck about Super and then said it was Objectively true and it was pretty much the same thing you always say in other threads. Not much analysis went into your original post.

You don’t need much analysis to see that DBS is mediocrely animated, poorly written, and devoid creativity. It’s no secret .

[Freeza9000]

Question: What is the whole point of this entire thread?

You know what, since this thread has nothing going for it besides it being yet another redundant rantfest, I might as well begin a tirade of my own, shall we?

What really grinds my gears the most are the hypocrites that routinely throw constant bitchfests about how Dragon Ball Super has violated their lives and how torturous it is to watch it yet continue to keep up with the series 100+ episodes. The same people that always proclaim how much they want to drop the show only to pick it up and watch it again. The same people that are so goddamn egotistical to the point where they feel the essential need to go to every forum and comment section to derogate and label everyone a "Supertard", "NostalgiaFag", etc., but can't tell the difference between what a fact and an opinion is.

I haven’t actually seen that type of name calling on this forum. Are you sure you aren’t confusing this with another forum you regularly post on?

Maybe not this forum, but it sure as hell prevalent on other places, especially YouTube.

[Boo Machine]

Yes objectively, as in observing with analysis or measurement, you can objectively say the movie John wick or The Matrix was better directed and written than The Specilasit or The incredibles or Finding Nemo was better directed and written than the Emoji movie with observation and analysis. By looking at things that came before and comparing and contrasting.

Sure. But you didn't do that. You rattled off a list of things you think suck about Super and then said it was Objectively true and it was pretty much the same thing you always say in other threads. Not much analysis went into your original post.

You don’t need much analysis to see that DBS is mediocrely animated, poorly written, and devoid creativity. It’s no secret .

If you can't be bothered to even give it an "analysis" , even going so far as too basically say "I don't need to, it just sucks and it's super true" then don't expect for anyone to take your "objective analysis" seriously. If it's as obvious as you claim then a good majority of people would feel the way you do, but that isn't the case, and I don't think it's right to assume that they don't feel that way because they are easily amused idiots. You're just repeating the same things you have always said without any expansion on your thoughts, and this thread didn't even need to be made, you could have just continued going to random threads and calling it bad as you always have.

[SaiyanGod117]

I didn’t say, I dont need too. What I said is, you don’t need much analysis and I don’t care if anyone doesn’t take my rant seriously and a lot of threads don’t need to be made but there made anyway and I guess mines will join the club.

[Kanassa]

I didn’t say, I dont need too. What I said is, you don’t need much analysis and I don’t care if anyone doesn’t take my rant seriously

This is an online forum. The point of which is discussion. To make a thread is to create a topic you want to discuss. If you do not wish to actually have a discussion and just dismiss disagreement, then you shouldn't have made this thread in the first place.

and a lot of threads don’t need to be made but there made anyway and I guess mines will join the club.

"BUt MOOOOM, the other kids are jumping off the cliff!"

[SaiyanGod117]

Than discuss, bring on a argument for why Super is good and has the qualities of a competently produced show, doesn’t have to be that and it can be for anyone of the points I said. I’m not holding up a gun to anyones head, anyone is free to refute whatever I said.

[MaskedRider]

I'll give my two cents

If to you or anyone else believes Super has not produced one good arc then Toei "getting their shit together" will not please you or change your outlook about the rest of the series from before. I agree with Boo Machine in that you use the words such as "objectively" or "nostalgic" as if they are these magical words that turn what you say into fact and if someone dares throw anything different at you you can just reduce it to, "Oh...Super apologists..." That just comes off as Skinner in the Simpsons who asks himself, "Am I so out of touch? No its the children who are wrong."

You're entitled to your opinion but Super is polarizing, for example, I see people dissing on the Future Trunks arc but there are a lot out there and I know on this forum that consider it to be the franchise's best. You're right, when you look at Super and compare it to DB/Z/GT you can see a difference in atmosphere along with style (art / music) but you also have to understand that it has been twenty years; fads change, industry changes, mind sets change, taste change. Does that excuse unnecessary bad writing such as Togama's case in the Resurrection F arc? No, but realizing this I know it was not going to live the same way as its predecessors like a child who is being forced by its parents to do things it don't want to because their parents were insecure about what they regret in life.

This wasn't me to hope you will change your mind about Super because I know nothing will but at least make discussion juicy by adding reasons, explaining why you think the way you do instead of falling back to, "Oh well thats just dumb." "Whys that?" "Its bad writing!" "Why?" "Because it sounds like an idea from a fan fiction." "How does that make it bad?" "Because its stupid."

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Simere]

Than discuss, bring on a argument for why Super is good and has the qualities of a competently produced show, doesn’t have to be that and it can be for anyone of the points I said. I’m not holding up a gun to anyones head, anyone is free to refute whatever I said.

You didn't actually say anything. You spoke vaguely and in generalities.

[Kinokima]

Than discuss, bring on a argument for why Super is good and has the qualities of a competently produced show, doesn’t have to be that and it can be for anyone of the points I said. I’m not holding up a gun to anyones head, anyone is free to refute whatever I said.

Why does anyone have to prove to you why Super is a good show? No offense but there is nothing to prove to you. I don't care if you don't like the show. That is your prerogative. What I don't understand why you would waste watching 100+ episodes of what you think is essentially garbage. That's a complete joke.


Now I on the other hand marathoned 100+'episodes of the series and had an extremely fun time and fell in love with the characters all over again. Maybe it was a bit of nostalgia but I certainly wasn't sitting here waiting for a new DB series. Do I think Super is a Masterpiece without flaws absolutely not. But quite honestly I don't think that's true for DBZ or most shounen action series. While I don't watch a lot of the most recent ones I've seen plenty. I am rewatching DBZ now and also having a lot of fun with it but it has plenty of flaws.

So no I don't think Super is the best thing to ever be written but I don't care I find it enjoyable. I love the humor and the slice of life mixed in with the more serious action stuff. This is a strength for me and actually makes Super feel unique. Even though I think a lot of shounen action improved on Toriyama's formula over the years one thing I loved about DBZ the characters are adults and have families. That continues in Super. I absolutely love the character interaction in Super. It makes me incredibly happy. And I also really love how the DB world has been
expanded starting with the introduction of Beerus and Whis in BOG and introducing us to the concept of new Universes.


So no one needs you to tell them that Super is objectively awful. It's such a baseless statement. You don't like it don't watch it and those of us who are enjoying it will continue. Thank you very much!

[fadeddreams5]

Sooo... filler aside, does anyone out there actually enjoy Super more than DBZ? I'm genuinely curious.

[Kanassa]

Sooo... filler aside, does anyone out there actually enjoy Super more than DBZ? I'm genuinely curious.

Pretty much, yeah. For me, Z was the reason it took me so long to get into Dragon Ball at first, with only two arcs I actually enjoyed (Saiyan Saga and Buu Saga). I'm enjoying Super way more than I enjoyed Z, especially when it managed to make Frieza of all people interesting.

[MajinMan]

I think Super is in fact worse than DB/Z, but I still enjoy it to a certain degree. As a whole, Super is probably 6.5-7 out of 10 series to me. It is certainly the worst produced DB anime hands down, and it contains some awkward and terrible animation, especially early on. That will always be Super's most "objective" shortcoming. If the show was released in, let's say, October instead of July, it would probably look and feel a lot different than it does now. I think they've fixed most of the problems, but you can tell that sometimes things still aren't planned out very well.

Overall it's an average series to me. I like a lot of things about it, mostly the character moments, fun world building, and interesting new characters. Of course these things I listed are all subjective, but I feel that the series has some genuine strong points to it that overshadow the terrible production and planning.