What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by TheMikado » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:01 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
VegettoEX wrote: I would. Why would Whis be so invested in and knowledgeable about Saiyan transformations from another universe?

I don't want Whis to be the all-knowing exposition character.
Especially when he was shown to have limited knowledge of the Super Saiyan transformations in his own universe. He didn't know what Super Saiyan God was and doubted it wasn't something Beerus had just dreamed up.
Correct, Whis should not be the exposition bucket he currently is.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:05 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:These are questions that could be answered with a quick comment by Whis, which no one would bother to debate.
I would. Why would Whis be so invested in and knowledgeable about Saiyan transformations from another universe?

I don't want Whis to be the all-knowing exposition character.
I can see your point. Here's how it could work, in my eyes: 1) Kale transforms into SSBerserker for the first time on the stadium; 2) Vegeta sees it and comments on it being the original Saiyan form; 3) Shin, curious, sees it and mentions that it looks a lot like the form Trunks used against Black; 4) Whis says that he can notice the similarities too, and says Shin recounted what happened in the future to him; 5) Whis concludes it is a completed version of Trunks' form.

Whis is not the all-knowing exposition character in this instance. He is using logical reasoning from his repeated exposure to Saiyans, their habits, techniques, and forms.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:33 pm

The main problem with Trunks' transformation was that he did nothing in particular to gain it and no one questions or even really makes note of it afterwards. With Goku it seems as of now that this will also be a somewhat unearned form, but they're making a big deal about the form and teased it having a name on Toei's official Twitter, so I think we're safe in terms of it at least getting a reason to exist. Whether or not it'll be a GOOD reason I don't know.
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saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Boo Machine » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:51 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote: I can see your point. Here's how it could work, in my eyes: 1) Kale transforms into SSBerserker for the first time on the stadium; 2) Vegeta sees it and comments on it being the original Saiyan form; 3) Shin, curious, sees it and mentions that it looks a lot like the form Trunks used against Black; 4) Whis says that he can notice the similarities too, and says Shin recounted what happened in the future to him; 5) Whis concludes it is a completed version of Trunks' form.

Whis is not the all-knowing exposition character in this instance. He is using logical reasoning from his repeated exposure to Saiyans, their habits, techniques, and forms.
Except those 2 forms aren't alike aside from having no pupils, even then that wasn't a thing with Trunks form for very long. Also Whis never saw SSJ rage either. He wouldn't know. That would just be making connections where there are none to an event that isn't currently relevant all for an exposition dump. And even if it did, then there would be questions about what makes it complete and how. There is never enough information anymore.

In my eyes none of this information matters. Kale's form is a new transformation thats just one giant Broly homage, so she does what Broly does. Run over people. How it works is unimportant to the current story.

I can see an argument for why SSJ rage makes people scratch their head, but only because no one in universe acknowledges it and it's just kind of brushed off in an arc that's centered on Trunks.
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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:13 pm

Boo Machine wrote: Except those 2 forms aren't alike aside from having no pupils, even then that wasn't a thing with Trunks form for very long.
I would disagree with that. Both are unlocked via intense anger and frustration towards another person. Both are immense in presence. Both have the level of power that reaches SSBlue Goku. Both are reminiscent and homages to Trunks' SS1 Ultra where he had no eyes against Perfect Cell. Both were not explained enough. Even their names make a connection "Rage" and "Berserk".
Boo Machine wrote: Also Whis never saw SSJ rage either. He wouldn't know.
Fair enough. I can respect that point; however, my explanation at the top of this page was just a preliminary one.
Boo Machine wrote: That would just be making connections where there are none to an event that isn't currently relevant all for an exposition dump. And even if it did, then there would be questions about what makes it complete and how. There is never enough information anymore.
Expositions to make connections is not necessarily a bad thing. You talk of it like it would be random and unrelated. Goku flat out asks Gowasu -- when Merged Zamasu is preparing for an attack -- why he defused when they used the Potara Earings the first time. Gowasu shouldn't know what happened regarding Buu, and it derailed the tension in the episode. But, it was a needed explanation about a confusing part of the show. Old Kai stopped to explain how Goku did not use Kaioken for a while, and randomly brought it back. The explanation was slightly relevant, one could say, but still an exposition dump about SS1's stamina and SSBlue's stamina.
Boo Machine wrote: In my eyes none of this information matters. Kale's form is a new transformation thats just one giant Broly homage, so she does what Broly does. Run over people. How it works is unimportant to the current story.
If it doesn't matter to you, then go for it. That's your prerogative. However, saying something is unimportant, like a reasoning for where and how a form comes into being, is too dismissive. I, personally, think it is a big deal. Dragon Ball has a multitude of transformations in its entirety, and people can't keep up with it half of the time.

The need to set certain things straight is important for the audience. In DBS, we were introduced to SSGod, SSBlue, SSRosé, SSRage, SSBerserker, SSBerserker Controlled, SSBlue Kaioken, and now the Limit Breaker form. The majority of those no one still knows how they work -- hell, SS3 is still a bit of a mystery. When you introduce as many new ideas, forms, and concepts as Dragon Ball does, it is both respectful to the audience and easier on the understanding of the show to explain these parts.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Boo Machine » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:37 pm

[spoiler]
ChiefWamsutta wrote: I would disagree with that. Both are unlocked via intense anger and frustration towards another person. Both are immense in presence. Both have the level of power that reaches SSBlue Goku. Both are reminiscent and homages to Trunks' SS1 Ultra where he had no eyes against Perfect Cell. Both were not explained enough. Even their names make a connection "Rage" and "Berserk".
SSJ 1 and 2 were tapped into by anger. Their level of power and no pupils doesn't make them part of the same branch. No one in universe calls them Rage and Berserk though. Caulifla called Kales "Ultra Super power" but it's just a name.
ChiefWamsutta wrote:Expositions to make connections is not necessarily a bad thing. You talk of it like it would be random and unrelated. Goku flat out asks Gowasu -- when Merged Zamasu is preparing for an attack -- why he defused when they used the Potara Earings the first time. Gowasu shouldn't know what happened regarding Buu, and it derailed the tension in the episode. But, it was a needed explanation about a confusing part of the show. Old Kai stopped to explain how Goku did not use Kaioken for a while, and randomly brought it back. The explanation was slightly relevant, one could say, but still an exposition dump about SS1's stamina and SSBlue's stamina.
Not the same thing. Berserk and Rage having a connection is an assumption that makes sense to you but is never proven. But Goku never mentioned Buu when asking why they diffused. He just asked why diffusion happened with no futher context and Gowasu answered because he didn't need context. It's a connection that needed to be made because it was relevant to what was going to happen. Same with the Kaioken. It mattered because it tells us why Goku is using Kioken now of all times and not any other time after the events on Namek and why this is supposed to be a big deal that this long gone technique is back.
ChiefWamsutta wrote:If it doesn't matter to you, then go for it. That's your prerogative. However, saying something is unimportant, like a reasoning for where and how a form comes into being, is too dismissive. I, personally, think it is a big deal. Dragon Ball has a multitude of transformations in its entirety, and people can't keep up with it half of the time.

The need to set certain things straight is important for the audience. In DBS, we were introduced to SSGod, SSBlue, SSRosé, SSRage, SSBerserker, SSBerserker Controlled, SSBlue Kaioken, and now the Limit Breaker form. The majority of those no one still knows how they work -- hell, SS3 is still a bit of a mystery. When you introduce as many new ideas, forms, and concepts as Dragon Ball does, it is both respectful to the audience and easier on the understanding of the show to explain these parts.
I don't mean to be dismissive, but with the exception of Rage, every other form gives us an idea of how it works whether by the characters or just by how it's used. Where it comes from really doesn't matter. Even SSJ 3. Just a more powered up version of SSJ, just like 2 was. I personally get nothing from something like "Berserk is the original SSJ form!"

Ok. Let's say that's the explanation. Are they going to do anything with that or is it just flavor text? If they're not going anywhere with it or it's not the focus of the story then it's not important. At least at the moment. Much like the namekian book of legends. Neat little thing to mention, but doesn't add much to the Battle of Gods arc. If they do decide to go somewhere with it in, say, an arc where Kale and her form matter, they can exposition dump then.[/spoiler]

Spoilers to avoid text wall.
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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Xeztin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:50 pm

In Dragon Ball nothings explained when it first appears. For instance, we didn’t know SSJ was triggured by rage or how it worked until the Cell saga. We didn’t get the name for SSJ2 until Boo. SSJ3 was assumed to be a mutation obtained by fusion or otherwordly training while dead. SSJB wasn’t really given background until SSJBKK describing it as perfect ki control. SSG was given background in manga. This new form won’t be given a background until the next form is reached. Dragon Ball usually doesn’t explain things until they take it to the next level. For example: SSJ is triggured by anger, lets master it to become stronger! SSJ2 happened to Gohan when he was angered even further as a Super Saiyan etc... SSJ4 was shown how it was obtained but GT bever explained its power or how it worked as GT didn’t go long.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:59 pm

Then we'd have a Gohan ssj2, basically all of Kale transformations, and/or Trunks SsjRage moment.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:21 pm

The only forms with real explanations are SS, SSG and ultimate. The rest are chalked up to training or fighting very hard or getting really angry.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by PMD » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:17 pm

Why you need an explanation for something that happens in an audiovisual medium (with all its richness and with his own language and codes) instead of wanting, for example, good dialogues, action and/or animation?

As long as if it's well executed and it's fun to watch, I don't give a damn about an explanation. If they waste time explaining things or do some stupid things like power scales, that's simply poor writing. Leave room for mistery, post-episode debate or something more deep than an enciclopedia script made for slow people. Rise your standars.
VegettoEX wrote:I feel like our site's mission to document everything in the history of ever and provide as much context and information as possible is shaping everyone's modern expectations into everything I don't like and am disappointed to see in fandom.

I don't need everything explained and justified to me, especially the instant it's first introduced.
OMG SO MUCH THIS. Thank you very much.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Zagacious » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:51 pm

PMD wrote:Why you need an explanation for something that happens in an audiovisual medium (with all its richness and with his own language and codes) instead of wanting, for example, good dialogues, action and/or animation?

As long as if it's well executed and it's fun to watch, I don't give a damn about an explanation. If they waste time explaining things or do some stupid things like power scales, that's simply poor writing. Leave room for mistery, post-episode debate or something more deep than an enciclopedia script made for slow people. Rise your standars.
VegettoEX wrote:I feel like our site's mission to document everything in the history of ever and provide as much context and information as possible is shaping everyone's modern expectations into everything I don't like and am disappointed to see in fandom.

I don't need everything explained and justified to me, especially the instant it's first introduced.
OMG SO MUCH THIS. Thank you very much.

People are worried it's just going to be another mess that the end of the Black Goku Arc was with Trunks pulling his move and 'transformation' out of nowhere, which to this day is not explained at all by anything other than headcanon.

This is about a lot more than power scaling so don't try to diminish it into one of those conversations. People pulling moves out of nowhere and nothing being explained about it is far worse than things being over-explained. On top of that no one even really reacted to Trunks move with surprise, it was just like oh he's going to finish him off now even though he had zero chance against him before and it got a reaction out of no one, sure that's totally enjoyable to watch.
Last edited by Zagacious on Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Simere » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:53 pm

PMD wrote:Why you need an explanation for something that happens in an audiovisual medium (with all its richness and with his own language and codes) instead of wanting, for example, good dialogues, action and/or animation?

As long as if it's well executed and it's fun to watch, I don't give a damn about an explanation. If they waste time explaining things or do some stupid things like power scales, that's simply poor writing. Leave room for mistery, post-episode debate or something more deep than an enciclopedia script made for slow people. Rise your standars.
Explanations aren't for "audiovisual mediums" aka TV shows? Pretending that explanations can't be delivered in "good dialogues"? Calling people who want explanations slow? How about you raise the standards of your posts?

It's not well executed if it's not properly setup. Getting people invested in the storytelling is not so simple as the "no explanations" crowd makes it out to be, as they disrespect Toriyama's ability to craft and pace a story by reducing it to "just doing stuff". Leaving something unexplained doesn't automatically make it mysterious if the storyteller hasn't properly laid the foundation for the listener to care. Making a character achieve some new level of ability doesn't automatically make it awesome if the context for what they achieved—where they came from and how far they've come—isn't understood.

"Super Saiyan Rage" was a failure of storytelling.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by TheMikado » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:21 pm

Simere wrote:
PMD wrote:Why you need an explanation for something that happens in an audiovisual medium (with all its richness and with his own language and codes) instead of wanting, for example, good dialogues, action and/or animation?

As long as if it's well executed and it's fun to watch, I don't give a damn about an explanation. If they waste time explaining things or do some stupid things like power scales, that's simply poor writing. Leave room for mistery, post-episode debate or something more deep than an enciclopedia script made for slow people. Rise your standars.
Explanations aren't for "audiovisual mediums" aka TV shows? Pretending that explanations can't be delivered in "good dialogues"? Calling people who want explanations slow? How about you raise the standards of your posts?

It's not well executed if it's not properly setup. Getting people invested in the storytelling is not so simple as the "no explanations" crowd makes it out to be, as they disrespect Toriyama's ability to craft and pace a story by reducing it to "just doing stuff". Leaving something unexplained doesn't automatically make it mysterious if the storyteller hasn't properly laid the foundation for the listener to care. Making a character achieve some new level of ability doesn't automatically make it awesome if the context for what they achieved—where they came from and how far they've come—isn't understood.

"Super Saiyan Rage" was a failure of storytelling.

OMFG!!!! Someone else gets it. Toriyama went through a ton of hoops to make his work consistent.

Example:
Toriyama didn’t NEED to give Trunks a whole complicated backstory with multiple timeline and such. He could have just said he has a time machine and he came from the Future and left it at that. But because Toriyama is actually a competent writer he gives convincing arguments as to why Future Trunks can’t fix his own timeline and where the heck Cell came from. He could have easily just made Cell as bigger more powerful android that didn’t need to absorb anyone at all.
Toriyama didn’t NEED to go through the whole SSJ grades and ASSJ and USSJ and FSSJ scenarios but he DID because it’s good F@cking STORYTELLING.

I don’t understand why everyone wants to disrespect Toriyamas previous work by attempting to bring that work down to the level of Super. Toriyama not only explaned a crap load of things, sometimes he over explained them. No we don’t need a ton exposition. No one is saying that, but we usually ended up learning a good bit about the mastery of specific elements in the next arc. Understanding how Zenkais worked. Learning about SSJ the arc after it was introduced, etc.

When we first learned about SS rage the idea was ok let s wait to see if they explain it and they never did. In fact we got a great explanation for SSG even though I don’t personally like it/ however the longer this goes on the worse the explanations get to the point where they’re nonexistent now. No one complains about SSGs explanation because it exists even though we don’t like it. SSB was much worse in terms of explanation but it was at least still something and took training with Whis to obtain. SSBxKK we got a one liner but no idea where or how Goku mastered it. And SS Rage we got... nothing. Not even a name or a real acknowledgement that it even really happened in universe...

That is NOT well executed. That’s the opposite of well executed and it’s getting worse as the series goes on.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:10 pm

No explanation for some things is typical Dragon Ball.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Miracles » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:15 pm

Won't matter...Looking cool supersedes all the how and why questions.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by TheMikado » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:26 pm

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:No explanation for some things is typical Dragon Ball.
Yes original Dragonball when it was more fantasy than sci-fi based. When it transitioned to Z era suddenly Goku was an alien who was able to transform into a giant ape due to bluntz waves which were generated from light reflecting off of celestial bodies and which interacted with the glands which anatomically resided in Saiyans tails........

So yeah not explaining this was a staple at the beginning when it was considered fantasy, but when it hit the Z era Toriyama began explaining everything. He explained the saiyan grades, the timelines and time machines, the androids. He explained a crap load of things. So no the most recent Dragonball stories before Super which we are use to had a ton of exposition to them.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:23 pm

[spoiler]
TheMikado wrote:
Simere wrote:
PMD wrote:Why you need an explanation for something that happens in an audiovisual medium (with all its richness and with his own language and codes) instead of wanting, for example, good dialogues, action and/or animation?

As long as if it's well executed and it's fun to watch, I don't give a damn about an explanation. If they waste time explaining things or do some stupid things like power scales, that's simply poor writing. Leave room for mistery, post-episode debate or something more deep than an enciclopedia script made for slow people. Rise your standars.
Explanations aren't for "audiovisual mediums" aka TV shows? Pretending that explanations can't be delivered in "good dialogues"? Calling people who want explanations slow? How about you raise the standards of your posts?

It's not well executed if it's not properly setup. Getting people invested in the storytelling is not so simple as the "no explanations" crowd makes it out to be, as they disrespect Toriyama's ability to craft and pace a story by reducing it to "just doing stuff". Leaving something unexplained doesn't automatically make it mysterious if the storyteller hasn't properly laid the foundation for the listener to care. Making a character achieve some new level of ability doesn't automatically make it awesome if the context for what they achieved—where they came from and how far they've come—isn't understood.

"Super Saiyan Rage" was a failure of storytelling.

OMFG!!!! Someone else gets it. Toriyama went through a ton of hoops to make his work consistent.

Example:
Toriyama didn’t NEED to give Trunks a whole complicated backstory with multiple timeline and such. He could have just said he has a time machine and he came from the Future and left it at that. But because Toriyama is actually a competent writer he gives convincing arguments as to why Future Trunks can’t fix his own timeline and where the heck Cell came from. He could have easily just made Cell as bigger more powerful android that didn’t need to absorb anyone at all.
Toriyama didn’t NEED to go through the whole SSJ grades and ASSJ and USSJ and FSSJ scenarios but he DID because it’s good F@cking STORYTELLING.

I don’t understand why everyone wants to disrespect Toriyamas previous work by attempting to bring that work down to the level of Super. Toriyama not only explaned a crap load of things, sometimes he over explained them. No we don’t need a ton exposition. No one is saying that, but we usually ended up learning a good bit about the mastery of specific elements in the next arc. Understanding how Zenkais worked. Learning about SSJ the arc after it was introduced, etc.

When we first learned about SS rage the idea was ok let s wait to see if they explain it and they never did. In fact we got a great explanation for SSG even though I don’t personally like it/ however the longer this goes on the worse the explanations get to the point where they’re nonexistent now. No one complains about SSGs explanation because it exists even though we don’t like it. SSB was much worse in terms of explanation but it was at least still something and took training with Whis to obtain. SSBxKK we got a one liner but no idea where or how Goku mastered it. And SS Rage we got... nothing. Not even a name or a real acknowledgement that it even really happened in universe...

That is NOT well executed. That’s the opposite of well executed and it’s getting worse as the series goes on.
[/spoiler]

Yes, TheMikado and Simere, I agree with you both. Perfectly said. Super Saiyan 1 did not need an explanation when Goku unlocked it on Namek because there was groundwork laid. Then we got an explanation later on, and it worked well.

Super Saiyan Rage had no groundwork, no explanation, and it leaves no mystery. Super Saiyan Berserker also has none of that -- why is Kale the only one to get this form? Is this a U6 thing and SSRage was U7's version of it?

SSRosé was kinda explained, but not enough. SSGod's return was out of nowhere too. They needed some reason why Goku had not used it in a while. Whis, Beerus, Shin, and Elder Kai played it off like he used it a few days ago. "Oh, look, Goku is using SSGod. That's our Goku!"

God Ki has been horribly established!! We have some people believing that SSRage uses God Ki because of the blue aura. It seems like the only forms with God Ki are SSGod, SSBlue, and SSRosé, but how should I know?

All of this needed some sense of explanation because these forms were DIFFERENT NATURED than SS1/SS2/SS3. We could grasp that SS3 was just a further evolution of SS2 and SS1, so we didn't lose anything by not getting an explanation.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by Avenant » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:36 pm

Xeztin wrote:In Dragon Ball nothings explained when it first appears. For instance, we didn’t know SSJ was triggured by rage or how it worked until the Cell saga.
I don't know about you, but when Goku turned SSJ after Frieza killed Kuririn and he wasn't short of any rage, it was kind of obvious that it was triggered by rage.
Xeztin wrote:SSJ3 was assumed to be a mutation obtained by fusion or otherwordly training while dead.


Who assumed that? I didn't assume that. Goku was training like crazy in otherworld so I think it was pretty obvious that he just trained until he reached it.
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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by MaskedRider » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:48 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:The main problem with Trunks' transformation was that he did nothing in particular to gain it
Eh, you have to take it into consideration that he fought Dabura with instruction from the Kaioshin (To be fair we don't know the extent of that in the anime so invalid I guess), fought Black with the resistance for over a year until he decided that he can't do it alone and needs help from the past. While in the past he sparred with Goku (which I doubt added anything significant) and "trained" (Lets be real that was nothing but the eye catch to the episode implies more was done) with Vegeta; went back into the future to fight Black and Future Zamasu with Vegeta and Goku. I can't say it was unearned because he certainly pulled his weight. Of course you can bring up, "Well why didn't he transform when Future Bulma or when he thought Mai was killed?" and that is valid but at the same time they were focusing heavily on Trunks to not let their hope slip and get to the past ASAP.

It doesn't help Trunks mentally and emotionally that Zamasu and Black berate him for his use of time travel and say that he is the catalyst for why the Future inhabitants have to suffer Zamasu's justice. I think its well earned considering the physical, mental and emotional exhaustion toll it took on him and the half saiyan potential he said she said bs. You can poke fun at him for achieving it through a temper tantrum but this is Future Trunks after all, the second it don't go his way he blows up a lab or the environment when Cell mocks human fear or explodes internally from having to see his father knocked unconscious to a near death state.

As for the comments regarding Rose, when I was fine combing episodes for screen caps for another thread Vegeta mentioned all it was was Super Saiyan...yeah shocker I know. I don't know why any more needs to be explained when its been said, at least English dub is concerned, that Goku's cells is the reason why Cell can use the kamehameha. Zamasu is in Goku's body and Goku's cells are very much there with Zamasu's divine ki being exported out of it so I don't see why not when there is an episode title to not defile Saiyan cells and Vegeta calling Black out on not being able to use them to their fullest potential.

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Re: What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

Post by RedHeat » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:52 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:[spoiler]
TheMikado wrote:
Simere wrote:
Explanations aren't for "audiovisual mediums" aka TV shows? Pretending that explanations can't be delivered in "good dialogues"? Calling people who want explanations slow? How about you raise the standards of your posts?

It's not well executed if it's not properly setup. Getting people invested in the storytelling is not so simple as the "no explanations" crowd makes it out to be, as they disrespect Toriyama's ability to craft and pace a story by reducing it to "just doing stuff". Leaving something unexplained doesn't automatically make it mysterious if the storyteller hasn't properly laid the foundation for the listener to care. Making a character achieve some new level of ability doesn't automatically make it awesome if the context for what they achieved—where they came from and how far they've come—isn't understood.

"Super Saiyan Rage" was a failure of storytelling.

OMFG!!!! Someone else gets it. Toriyama went through a ton of hoops to make his work consistent.

Example:
Toriyama didn’t NEED to give Trunks a whole complicated backstory with multiple timeline and such. He could have just said he has a time machine and he came from the Future and left it at that. But because Toriyama is actually a competent writer he gives convincing arguments as to why Future Trunks can’t fix his own timeline and where the heck Cell came from. He could have easily just made Cell as bigger more powerful android that didn’t need to absorb anyone at all.
Toriyama didn’t NEED to go through the whole SSJ grades and ASSJ and USSJ and FSSJ scenarios but he DID because it’s good F@cking STORYTELLING.

I don’t understand why everyone wants to disrespect Toriyamas previous work by attempting to bring that work down to the level of Super. Toriyama not only explaned a crap load of things, sometimes he over explained them. No we don’t need a ton exposition. No one is saying that, but we usually ended up learning a good bit about the mastery of specific elements in the next arc. Understanding how Zenkais worked. Learning about SSJ the arc after it was introduced, etc.

When we first learned about SS rage the idea was ok let s wait to see if they explain it and they never did. In fact we got a great explanation for SSG even though I don’t personally like it/ however the longer this goes on the worse the explanations get to the point where they’re nonexistent now. No one complains about SSGs explanation because it exists even though we don’t like it. SSB was much worse in terms of explanation but it was at least still something and took training with Whis to obtain. SSBxKK we got a one liner but no idea where or how Goku mastered it. And SS Rage we got... nothing. Not even a name or a real acknowledgement that it even really happened in universe...

That is NOT well executed. That’s the opposite of well executed and it’s getting worse as the series goes on.
[/spoiler]

Yes, TheMikado and Simere, I agree with you both. Perfectly said. Super Saiyan 1 did not need an explanation when Goku unlocked it on Namek because there was groundwork laid. Then we got an explanation later on, and it worked well.

Super Saiyan Rage had no groundwork, no explanation, and it leaves no mystery. Super Saiyan Berserker also has none of that -- why is Kale the only one to get this form? Is this a U6 thing and SSRage was U7's version of it?

SSRosé was kinda explained, but not enough. SSGod's return was out of nowhere too. They needed some reason why Goku had not used it in a while. Whis, Beerus, Shin, and Elder Kai played it off like he used it a few days ago. "Oh, look, Goku is using SSGod. That's our Goku!"

God Ki has been horribly established!! We have some people believing that SSRage uses God Ki because of the blue aura. It seems like the only forms with God Ki are SSGod, SSBlue, and SSRosé, but how should I know?

All of this needed some sense of explanation because these forms were DIFFERENT NATURED than SS1/SS2/SS3. We could grasp that SS3 was just a further evolution of SS2 and SS1, so we didn't lose anything by not getting an explanation.
Largely my headcanon, but the characters themselves would have no idea what these new forms are let alone how they work.

Kale specifically can just be Dragon Ball's X-man, a genetic hiccup.
Feels over Reals.

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