What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

[ChiefWamsutta]

Largely my headcanon, but the characters themselves would have no idea what these new forms are let alone how they work.

Kale specifically can just be Dragon Ball's X-man, a genetic hiccup.

You're right, and they probably shouldn't know. It is just nice for us to understand what the fuck is going on. That's why I think Whis or Grand Priest should say something when Goku transforms into Limit Breaker.

Great Ape: Saiyan's reacting when blutz waves hit their eyes, and their tails change them. The most primal form of Saiyans. Works fine.
Super Saiyan: Rage-filled form that changes the cosmetics of a Saiyan and gives them enormous power. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Ascended: Outputting more power into the form. Manifests through bigger muscles. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Ultra: Outputting even more power than Ascended. Huge muscle growth. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Full Power: The mental mastery of the Super Saiyan form. Works fine.
Super Saiyan 2: A true further evolution of SS1 that is accessed by rage. Works fine.
Super Saiyan 3: The furthest push a SS1 can be taken. It is the absolute end of the branch in exerting power. Works fine.
Ultimate: Unlocking latent hidden potential without the physical stress of Super Saiyan. The form changes the black hair slightly. Works fine.
Super Saiyan God: A form achieved through ritual that has God Ki and a time limit. Absorbing it allows for permanent access. Kinda works, but what is God Ki?
Super Saiyan Blue: The Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God. Has God Ki too. Works fine, but, again, what is God Ki?
Super Saiyan Rosé: The version of Super Saiyan Blue where the user is of godly heritage. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Rage: Ummmmm, the proper SS3? Or is it a new branch in the lineage all together? It might have God Ki. Accessed by rage. This is just so bad.
Super Saiyan Berserker: Again, I have no idea other than you become mindless and have big muscles. This is just so bad.
Super Saiyan Berserker Controlled: The Super Saiyan 1 version of berserker. A lot less power is used; smaller physique; controlled emotions and power. Works fine.

[TekTheNinja]

The main problem with Trunks' transformation was that he did nothing in particular to gain it

Eh, you have to take it into consideration that he fought Dabura with instruction from the Kaioshin (To be fair we don't know the extent of that in the anime so invalid I guess), fought Black with the resistance for over a year until he decided that he can't do it alone and needs help from the past. While in the past he sparred with Goku (which I doubt added anything significant) and "trained" (Lets be real that was nothing but the eye catch to the episode implies more was done) with Vegeta; went back into the future to fight Black and Future Zamasu with Vegeta and Goku. I can't say it was unearned because he certainly pulled his weight. Of course you can bring up, "Well why didn't he transform when Future Bulma or when he thought Mai was killed?" and that is valid but at the same time they were focusing heavily on Trunks to not let their hope slip and get to the past ASAP.

It doesn't help Trunks mentally and emotionally that Zamasu and Black berate him for his use of time travel and say that he is the catalyst for why the Future inhabitants have to suffer Zamasu's justice. I think its well earned considering the physical, mental and emotional exhaustion toll it took on him and the half saiyan potential he said she said bs. You can poke fun at him for achieving it through a temper tantrum but this is Future Trunks after all, the second it don't go his way he blows up a lab or the environment when Cell mocks human fear or explodes internally from having to see his father knocked unconscious to a near death state.

As for the comments regarding Rose, when I was fine combing episodes for screen caps for another thread Vegeta mentioned all it was was Super Saiyan...yeah shocker I know. I don't know why any more needs to be explained when its been said, at least English dub is concerned, that Goku's cells is the reason why Cell can use the kamehameha. Zamasu is in Goku's body and Goku's cells are very much there with Zamasu's divine ki being exported out of it so I don't see why not when there is an episode title to not defile Saiyan cells and Vegeta calling Black out on not being able to use them to their fullest potential.

I hate to reply to such a long and detailed response with a short one, but this is reaching. No training is ever implied to have unlocked the form, and to just get angry and unlock a never before seen form with no explanation on what it actually is is pretty ridiculous. I mean why the hell didn't Vegeta unlock this form during the "My Bulma!" scene or something like that? Is it for half-saiyans only? Does it have something to do with blue god ki? What the hell even is god ki anyway? How do you obtain it? Ki control? Then it just... appears or something? It makes no sense!

[GodVegetto91]

Largely my headcanon, but the characters themselves would have no idea what these new forms are let alone how they work.

Kale specifically can just be Dragon Ball's X-man, a genetic hiccup.

You're right, and they probably shouldn't know. It is just nice for us to understand what the fuck is going on. That's why I think Whis or Grand Priest should say something when Goku transforms into Limit Breaker.

Great Ape: Saiyan's reacting when blutz waves hit their eyes, and their tails change them. The most primal form of Saiyans. Works fine.
Super Saiyan: Rage-filled form that changes the cosmetics of a Saiyan and gives them enormous power. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Ascended: Outputting more power into the form. Manifests through bigger muscles. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Ultra: Outputting even more power than Ascended. Huge muscle growth. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Full Power: The mental mastery of the Super Saiyan form. Works fine.
Super Saiyan 2: A true further evolution of SS1 that is accessed by rage. Works fine.
Super Saiyan 3: The furthest push a SS1 can be taken. It is the absolute end of the branch in exerting power. Works fine.
Ultimate: Unlocking latent hidden potential without the physical stress of Super Saiyan. The form changes the black hair slightly. Works fine.
Super Saiyan God: A form achieved through ritual that has God Ki and a time limit. Absorbing it allows for permanent access. Kinda works, but what is God Ki?
Super Saiyan Blue: The Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God. Has God Ki too. Works fine, but, again, what is God Ki?
Super Saiyan Rosé: The version of Super Saiyan Blue where the user is of godly heritage. Works fine.
Super Saiyan Rage: Ummmmm, the proper SS3? Or is it a new branch in the lineage all together? It might have God Ki. Accessed by rage. This is just so bad.
Super Saiyan Berserker: Again, I have no idea other than you become mindless and have big muscles. This is just so bad.
Super Saiyan Berserker Controlled: The Super Saiyan 1 version of berserker. A lot less power is used; smaller physique; controlled emotions and power. Works fine.

What is God Ki? — Perfect ki control. Powering up internally, rather than externally so that it has ZERO ki leakage.

[MaskedRider]

I hate to reply to such a long and detailed response with a short one, but this is reaching. No training is ever implied to have unlocked the form, and to just get angry and unlock a never before seen form with no explanation on what it actually is is pretty ridiculous. I mean why the hell didn't Vegeta unlock this form during the "My Bulma!" scene or something like that? Is it for half-saiyans only? Does it have something to do with blue god ki? What the hell even is god ki anyway? How do you obtain it? Ki control? Then it just... appears or something? It makes no sense!

Its fine lol, I just wish I knew how to condense these word walls If no training is implied to have to unlock the form then perhaps no training is required. While Saiyans can train to achieve the Super Saiyan transformation, Goku never trained specifically to reach for it and one can argue that his whole life led up to that but who isn't to say the same for Trunks with Ikari? Heck, Vegeta knew about the legend his whole life and worked his royal butt off for it and didn't achieve it. You do have a point with why Vegeta didn't achieve it and I may be reaching but then you would have to argue why Goku didn't achieve SS at moments that he could have in DB or Vegeta when he became aware of Freeza killing his father and his planet and the only answer would be "Wasn't thought up at the time" :/ though I suppose there is no excuses now that Toei / Toriyama are well aware of different forms of the SS.

Super Saiyan transformations are weird, just to clarify I'm not trying to justify Ikari by saying this, if we're bringing all these transformations then what exactly should be the natural progression of these transformations? The grades are understandable but you start naming transformation in linear progression. SS1 --> SS2 --> SS3 --> SS4 and SSG -> SSB are achieved in ways that are not exactly the evolutionary progression. Even I feel three was accidentally discovered despite it being my favorite considering nobody else can achieve it besides Gotenks. I WANT TO RETURN TO DRAGON BALL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[PMD]

Why you need an explanation for something that happens in an audiovisual medium (with all its richness and with his own language and codes) instead of wanting, for example, good dialogues, action and/or animation?

As long as if it's well executed and it's fun to watch, I don't give a damn about an explanation. If they waste time explaining things or do some stupid things like power scales, that's simply poor writing. Leave room for mistery, post-episode debate or something more deep than an enciclopedia script made for slow people. Rise your standars.

Explanations aren't for "audiovisual mediums" aka TV shows? Pretending that explanations can't be delivered in "good dialogues"? Calling people who want explanations slow? How about you raise the standards of your posts?

It's not well executed if it's not properly setup. Getting people invested in the storytelling is not so simple as the "no explanations" crowd makes it out to be, as they disrespect Toriyama's ability to craft and pace a story by reducing it to "just doing stuff". Leaving something unexplained doesn't automatically make it mysterious if the storyteller hasn't properly laid the foundation for the listener to care. Making a character achieve some new level of ability doesn't automatically make it awesome if the context for what they achieved—where they came from and how far they've come—isn't understood.

"Super Saiyan Rage" was a failure of storytelling.

OMFG!!!! Someone else gets it. Toriyama went through a ton of hoops to make his work consistent.

Example:
Toriyama didn’t NEED to give Trunks a whole complicated backstory with multiple timeline and such. He could have just said he has a time machine and he came from the Future and left it at that. But because Toriyama is actually a competent writer he gives convincing arguments as to why Future Trunks can’t fix his own timeline and where the heck Cell came from. He could have easily just made Cell as bigger more powerful android that didn’t need to absorb anyone at all.
Toriyama didn’t NEED to go through the whole SSJ grades and ASSJ and USSJ and FSSJ scenarios but he DID because it’s good F@cking STORYTELLING.

I don’t understand why everyone wants to disrespect Toriyamas previous work by attempting to bring that work down to the level of Super. Toriyama not only explaned a crap load of things, sometimes he over explained them. No we don’t need a ton exposition. No one is saying that, but we usually ended up learning a good bit about the mastery of specific elements in the next arc. Understanding how Zenkais worked. Learning about SSJ the arc after it was introduced, etc.

When we first learned about SS rage the idea was ok let s wait to see if they explain it and they never did. In fact we got a great explanation for SSG even though I don’t personally like it/ however the longer this goes on the worse the explanations get to the point where they’re nonexistent now. No one complains about SSGs explanation because it exists even though we don’t like it. SSB was much worse in terms of explanation but it was at least still something and took training with Whis to obtain. SSBxKK we got a one liner but no idea where or how Goku mastered it. And SS Rage we got... nothing. Not even a name or a real acknowledgement that it even really happened in universe...

That is NOT well executed. That’s the opposite of well executed and it’s getting worse as the series goes on.

1) You can explain things in a good dialogue, of course. It happened a lot in this anime and in other series. But people wants everything overexplained, actions served in a silver plate with an instruction manual beside, instead of waiting for things to happen and analyzing it based on what the authors brings us. Heck, we're in the middle of an argument inside a topic based about a concern around a huuuuuge "what if", lmao. That's just nonsense, and actually I think it's far more disrespectful to Toriyama's capability as a storyteller.

2) By the way, please stop acting like everything that happens in Super isn't Toriyama's fault too. This isn't GT. The man clearly lost his touch in a lot of things as a writer. He did amazing things and gained the right to give a F about some explanations, as he very often did in this franchise before.

3) Please stop being selective with the examples. "SSJ vs Frieza was well executed, we noticed he was angry, that's good writing because someone was killed and Goku transforms. On the other hand, SSJ Rage wasn't well explained". Sure, Truks wasn't accused of being guilty of killing basically all the people he cared for in his timeline by some dudes that wanted him erased from existence with a machiavellian plan to improve the universe. That wasn't enough for a transformation, right? He needs to train and stuff. We need people saying, "Look, he transforms because bla bla bla bla". Why? What for? It was clear enough, move on.


PS: Sorry if the "slow" comment was edgy. Sometimes I get lost in translation with some terms and I can enter in the "disrespectful and offensive" zone without wanting it. I apologize.

[OLKv3]

"Super Saiyan 2" didn't go by such a title until the next form appeared. Not sure why parts of the fandom are experiencing such anxiety about this.

It had build up and an explanation though

[PsionicWarrior]

What if no explanation? Well aren't we used to that, just the regular stuff lol

[Duo]

"Super Saiyan 2" didn't go by such a title until the next form appeared. Not sure why parts of the fandom are experiencing such anxiety about this.

It had build up and an explanation though

1) New transformation has had build-up.
2) No there was not. The only explanation was GOHAN MAD. Much later it was shown that it was an actual evolution of Super Saiyan that Goku/Vegeta/Trunks can do as well. Super Saiyan God is by far the most "explained" transformation to appear in the series as written by Akira Toriyama.

[Gligarman]

Truth be told I'd be fine if it turns out whatever this new form is turns out to just be a culmination of all of his forms that for whatever reason leaves his hair black. After all Toriyama admitted that the only reason he made Super Saiyan form blonde was so they wouldn't have to color in his hair.

[KingKaash]

My problem is, how do they even explain it in universe? Sure you can see with your own two eyes things affecting the character that could make it possible but are characters going to actually know what happened? Assuming this transformation has never been done before by any mortal, who is going to know what is exactly happening? When Trunks achieved Ikari, this was a whole new transformation that Goku nor Vegeta seen before so how could they explain it? Even in the next episode preview from when Trunks achieved all Goku can say (granted this is a NEP and not actual dialogue) "Wow Trunks what power!" When Trunks transformed into Ikari all we know is that it was done through anger as Gowasu rhetorically asks, "Is this the power of anger?" and Shin adding a comment that Trunk's energy is expanding. In the google translated Toei episode description it says that Trunks was mutated by anger. There is also context clues such as USSJ poses being used when Trunks powers into Ikari and his muscles expanding into the size of USSJ before compressing but that is my headcanon.
So if there is no explanation I wouldn't be bothered by it because, how is anyone supposed to know? Its even shown that even gods don't know things sometimes, I believe there was a comment in Z by Eldar Kai that he told Shin that he needs to study more Though it would bother me if they don't release a guide book or something of some sort that comments on Super like the daizenshuus.

That’s another interesting point you bring up. How will they explain it in-universe? If that’s the case where no character in-universe would know, then is it even reasonable to expect an explanation? I do agree that the daizenshuus would be very helpful.

"Super Saiyan 2" didn't go by such a title until the next form appeared. Not sure why parts of the fandom are experiencing such anxiety about this.

It didn't need any sort of name or explanation at the time since it was pretty clear that it was simply a mastered version of super saiyan. At the time it was just viewed as super saiyan (and technically is just super saiyan).

What's more horrid is the lack of explanation of Kale's form. What it is or why only she has it. Trunks SS Rage was bad, and the SS Rose wasn't very good in terms of understanding what it is or why they have it. But nothing tops the horrible execution of Kale's form. I'm still not convinced this is a real form yet and not merely a "false" transitional form like the A/USSJ and False SSJ forms.

I had a feeling someone would mention Kale’s Berserk SSJ form. For me personally, I view Kale and Broly as beings who are born naturally gifted. They were given that super rare gene no one else really has. While it’s never been explained like this in the anime, I think that’s how it’s supposed to be viewed. They didn’t do any training to achieve this ridiculously powerful form. They’re just born with it.

I feel like our site's mission to document everything in the history of ever and provide as much context and information as possible is shaping everyone's modern expectations into everything I don't like and am disappointed to see in fandom.
I don't need everything explained and justified to me, especially the instant it's first introduced.

Hey Admin. No I’m not going to be disappointed because like I said the action will probably keep me occupied. I’m personally not expecting an explanation any time soon. I agree that not everything should be explained when it’s first introduced. But months removed, Future Trunks’ SSJ Rage does not sit too well with me because it makes little sense how Future Trunks reached this random form that keeps him on par with SSJB and matched against SSJ Rose, which are considered in the God tier. Just a bit more detail on Future Trunks could even achieve such a form would’ve been helpful to many viewers.

I don't think I have ever met someone who questioned why Goku's hair goes yellow and his eyes turn green. We've seen in subsequent transformations that Saiyans' hair color and length change even more than just SS1. That just seems to be a trait of Saiyans. I don't question why the Incredible Hulk's skin turns green and he grows more mass. Bruce Banner could have just stayed the same pigment and had his muscles become really dense. It's a transformation that isn't supposed to make sense and a visual metaphor to represent when he has changed.
I don't care what the form looks like, or even if Goku gets a new form. Either way is perfectly fine with me. I do, however, expect and prioritize an explanation behind things happening.

You’re not understanding my original question. I’m not asking WHY certain forms are certain colors. I’m HOW were these forms achieved? Through training? Meditation? Anger?

The main problem with Trunks' transformation was that he did nothing in particular to gain it and no one questions or even really makes note of it afterwards.

Exactly!

People are worried it's just going to be another mess that the end of the Black Goku Arc was with Trunks pulling his move and 'transformation' out of nowhere, which to this day is not explained at all by anything other than headcanon.
This is about a lot more than power scaling so don't try to diminish it into one of those conversations. People pulling moves out of nowhere and nothing being explained about it is far worse than things being over-explained. On top of that no one even really reacted to Trunks move with surprise, it was just like oh he's going to finish him off now even though he had zero chance against him before and it got a reaction out of no one, sure that's totally enjoyable to watch.

Yes thank you! Power scale is a branch of what I’m asking. I want to know the how (in due time, doesn’t have to be right away) for how such awesome forms are achieved by our favorite characters. The writers can’t keep bringing in new flashy forms and expect us to not wonder how they were attained.

Won't matter...Looking cool supersedes all the how and why questions.

I see some fans don’t care. And that’s perfectly fine. I knew some wouldn’t care either way

[fadeddreams5]

"Super Saiyan 2" didn't go by such a title until the next form appeared. Not sure why parts of the fandom are experiencing such anxiety about this.

It had build up and an explanation though

1) New transformation has had build-up.
2) No there was not. The only explanation was GOHAN MAD. Much later it was shown that it was an actual evolution of Super Saiyan that Goku/Vegeta/Trunks can do as well. Super Saiyan God is by far the most "explained" transformation to appear in the series as written by Akira Toriyama.

SSJ2 was the result of Gohan unleashing his latent power--which we all knew about and was constantly referred to during that arc--after having unlocked the mastered SSJ state. It made perfect sense within the context of the series. This was explained to us indirectly, which is how it should be, as opposed to directly telling us what we're seeing in front of our eyes.

It was supposed to be special, but then they relegated it to a normal transformation in the Buu saga that can be attained through extreme training, which also works, even if it diminishes the form. After all, this is the form the saiyans entered the RoSAT to obtain during the android saga, but nobody properly could.

How SSJG is obtained makes perfect sense, and was explained a little too thoroughly (because they needed us to sip on the kool-aid), but the entire concept makes absolutely none within the context of the lore we had up until that point.

[Ziegander]

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

[MaskedRider]

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

To add...its not like it was a genki dama too, Goku specifically states that it was like one, the fact that he says its like one would mean its not the genki dama, but its a comparison that makes sense because energy from others was gathered to a point. I may be nit picky but wording is important for this in my opinion when people keep saying Trunks pulled a spirit bomb out of his ass and to me its like, "no he didn't???"

[spoiler][/spoiler]

We seen Freeza absorb energy given to him by Goku, we seen Goku concentrate ki at his finger to cover his hand and we saw Vegetto shape a blade out of his hand with his energy with Black being able to form a scythe out of his. I bring these up because now we know that energy can be absorbed and formed into shape, I don't see why Trunks can't concentrate energy out his sword to form and make up for the broken bit, absorb the energy gathered to him by the Future inhabitants and having it take shape into what it was. At the end of the day I know it was "cool anime thing" but to say it didn't make sense? Hmmmmm I think it did.

[Simere]

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

I require further explanation for your post. Why do you make it sound like he debuted the form in episode 66? How can the "Genki Dama" be used as the explanation when it didn't happen until long after Trunks acquired the form?

[BlueBasilisk]

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

Trunks got the transformation in Episode 61 when Black accused him of being responsible for everything that happened. He got really angry and powered up. The "spirit bomb" was just used for the Sword of Hope.

[TheMikado]

"Super Saiyan 2" didn't go by such a title until the next form appeared. Not sure why parts of the fandom are experiencing such anxiety about this.

It had build up and an explanation though

1) New transformation has had build-up.
2) No there was not. The only explanation was GOHAN MAD. Much later it was shown that it was an actual evolution of Super Saiyan that Goku/Vegeta/Trunks can do as well. Super Saiyan God is by far the most "explained" transformation to appear in the series as written by Akira Toriyama.

OMG it's like people have never watched Dragon Ball at all!!

Gohan's MASSIVE potential has been teased since Raditz had him crying in a space pod on Earth. Toriyama literally took YEARS before Gohan's potential was fully realized, and even then his potential alone still didn't make him a powerhouse because he didn't commit himself to training and fighting like Goku or Vegeta.

That's how a transformation should be properly executed. Lots or foreshadowing where if you go back you can see the breadcrumbs and trail left by the author to show how a character achieved this journey. We can see exactly all the crap Gohan went through to get to SSJ2 despite his crazy potential. I took years of training, getting beat up, people dying right in front of his eyes before he was able to manifest it into SSJ2. By contrast Caulifa does a back tingle and boom SSJ1, plus she somehow accidentals pops SSJ2 and doesn't realize or know how...

I'm actually tired of this same argument. If people can't see the narrative and literary quality in something like Gohan's journey to SSJ2 vs Caulifa or Kale or SSJ Rage, then they probably never will and only see whatever it is they want to see.

[MKCSTEALTH]

I feel from a narrative perspective, the characters on the show don't really know how to explain it. It's one thing to have Super Saiyan, SSJ2, and SSJ3. Now we've entered the realm of God Ki where who knows the limits of power. The characters have never seen SSJ Rage before, nor do they really know how it was achieved. They've never seen a Saiyan transformation like Kale's. That's how I see.

And honestly, not explaining the transformation fully, to me, is an okay thing. I want it to have an air of mystery about it. That way we can see the full potential of it. Not explaining some instances, however, does bother me. Such as Trunks using the Spirit Bomb. Along with the fact that they just address it like it was just something cool rather than "how did you do that?"

[TheMikado]

I feel from a narrative perspective, the characters on the show don't really know how to explain it. It's one thing to have Super Saiyan, SSJ2, and SSJ3. Now we've entered the realm of God Ki where who knows the limits of power. The characters have never seen SSJ Rage before, nor do they really know how it was achieved. They've never seen a Saiyan transformation like Kale's. That's how I see.

And honestly, not explaining the transformation fully, to me, is an okay thing. I want it to have an air of mystery about it. That way we can see the full potential of it. Not explaining some instances, however, does bother me. Such as Trunks using the Spirit Bomb. Along with the fact that they just address it like it was just something cool rather than "how did you do that?"

In-universe Goku just recently found out what a Saiyan was let alone a Super Saiyan and even found what a Zenkai was on Namek. Vegeta pretty much knew jack about SSJ other than it existed, was super powerful, and appeared 1000 years ago. Yet somehow Goku not only learned enough about it to teach Gohan about it, but also focused on mastery of this form.

We don't even KNOW if Trunks can ever go SS Rage again and if he has access to it at will?

The point is instead of these guys just turning into random things they focused on mastery of previous forms to get a new form. During the course of that mastery the previous form was explained, expanded, and pushed to it's limits ultimately culminating into an entirely new form.

[RedHeat]

I feel from a narrative perspective, the characters on the show don't really know how to explain it. It's one thing to have Super Saiyan, SSJ2, and SSJ3. Now we've entered the realm of God Ki where who knows the limits of power. The characters have never seen SSJ Rage before, nor do they really know how it was achieved. They've never seen a Saiyan transformation like Kale's. That's how I see.

And honestly, not explaining the transformation fully, to me, is an okay thing. I want it to have an air of mystery about it. That way we can see the full potential of it. Not explaining some instances, however, does bother me. Such as Trunks using the Spirit Bomb. Along with the fact that they just address it like it was just something cool rather than "how did you do that?"

In-universe Goku just recently found out what a Saiyan was let alone a Super Saiyan and even found what a Zenkai was on Namek. Vegeta pretty much knew jack about SSJ other than it existed, was super powerful, and appeared 1000 years ago. Yet somehow Goku not only learned enough about it to teach Gohan about it, but also focused on mastery of this form.

We don't even KNOW if Trunks can ever go SS Rage again and if he has access to it at will?

The point is instead of these guys just turning into random things they focused on mastery of previous forms to get a new form. During the course of that mastery the previous form was explained, expanded, and pushed to it's limits ultimately culminating into an entirely new form.

Isn't that point of re-introducing Kaio-ken in the show and "focused" Super Saiyan Blue in the manga? The form ain't cutting it anymore so the main cast is forced to use other methods (in the manga's case, "perfecting" it).

[TheMikado]

I feel from a narrative perspective, the characters on the show don't really know how to explain it. It's one thing to have Super Saiyan, SSJ2, and SSJ3. Now we've entered the realm of God Ki where who knows the limits of power. The characters have never seen SSJ Rage before, nor do they really know how it was achieved. They've never seen a Saiyan transformation like Kale's. That's how I see.

And honestly, not explaining the transformation fully, to me, is an okay thing. I want it to have an air of mystery about it. That way we can see the full potential of it. Not explaining some instances, however, does bother me. Such as Trunks using the Spirit Bomb. Along with the fact that they just address it like it was just something cool rather than "how did you do that?"

In-universe Goku just recently found out what a Saiyan was let alone a Super Saiyan and even found what a Zenkai was on Namek. Vegeta pretty much knew jack about SSJ other than it existed, was super powerful, and appeared 1000 years ago. Yet somehow Goku not only learned enough about it to teach Gohan about it, but also focused on mastery of this form.

We don't even KNOW if Trunks can ever go SS Rage again and if he has access to it at will?

The point is instead of these guys just turning into random things they focused on mastery of previous forms to get a new form. During the course of that mastery the previous form was explained, expanded, and pushed to it's limits ultimately culminating into an entirely new form.

Isn't that point of re-introducing Kaio-ken in the show and "focused" Super Saiyan Blue in the manga? The form ain't cutting it anymore so the main cast is forced to use other methods (in the manga's case, "perfecting" it).

Correct this divergence is the perfect example of the differences.

The anime follows this new style of just turning up the ante without perfecting things. So the first time we see SSBxkk Goku immediately turns it up to x10. While the Anime brings back a previous form and Goku and Vegeta work on that to master higher forms.

The manga is more true to the style of the source material where they approach training with the idea of mastery rather than raw output and flash.