What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

[Ziegander]

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

I require further explanation for your post. Why do you make it sound like he debuted the form in episode 66? How can the "Genki Dama" be used as the explanation when it didn't happen until long after Trunks acquired the form?

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

Trunks got the transformation in Episode 61 when Black accused him of being responsible for everything that happened. He got really angry and powered up. The "spirit bomb" was just used for the Sword of Hope.

Sorry, guys, long day yesterday, I posted this right before going to bed and not really thinking much through lol. So that's where the "Rage" moniker comes from, that makes more sense. I see a lot of people talk shit about the Sword of Hope moment too like it's an absolute travesty of writing, but you guys in this thread are more upset over the SSRage form, huh? This was when he swelled up all USSJ like but then slimmed back down? Lemme go back and review the episode...

Ah, okay, everyone was talking about the blue aura seeming like God Ki, I didn't remember the blue part to his aura when he powered up vs Black. Yeah, okay, the Rage part for that form does make sense, it's definitely more reminiscent to Broly or Kale than SSJ2 or anything else we've seen Goku or Vegeta or other saiyans do. I still don't really have much problem with it, that's just what Saiyans do at this point in Dragon Ball - they get pissed and get more powerful than they were before. It was a lot like Gohan going SSJ2 for the first time. Now, I suppose most people have the problem with how on earth could Trunks go from being a very strong SSJ2 to being an SSR-level fighter? That I just chalked up to how wildly fluctuating the power level of SSB has been in the series. The way I see it SSB is just "perfect ki control and stronger than Goku SSJ2 to some unknown degree," and how much stronger seems to have almost no goalposts to measure from. So, yeah, SSJ2 Trunks got mad and fought on Goku SSB's level, even a bit above. Kind similar to how Vegeta got his "Mah Bulma Form" and pressed Beerus as a SSJ2.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion guys, I have no problems with Trunks' new form, but I can understand why others might. I just don't see it as the ridiculous asspull a lot of you guys do. Carry on my wayward sons.

[TheMikado]

^ you do know the “My Bulma” thing still gets hate to this day when he seemed to both Surpass SSJ3 Goku and had Beerus state that he used 10% of his power... in a world where SSBxKkx20 exists... and we aren’t even sure if that is stronger than Beerus and of not it makes Gokus current SSB even less than Rageta. That’s what people have an issue with.

[KingKaash]

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

I require further explanation for your post. Why do you make it sound like he debuted the form in episode 66? How can the "Genki Dama" be used as the explanation when it didn't happen until long after Trunks acquired the form?

Oh boy, I can't wait to put myself on literally everyone's shit list with this one. I can't believe all the backlash Trunks' "new form" has gotten. No explanation? I suppose not, but I can't be the only person that had absolutely no problem with it and felt it was justified very cleanly and concisely in the episode. He basically unintentionally formed a spirit bomb and then he clearly used the energy to power it up. It had nothing to do with rage, no, it also had nothing to do with training, obviously. It had everything to do with the hope of everyone he gave him energy and, perhaps even most importantly, the faith that those two children had in him. Why it's called Super Saiyan "Rage" is completely beyond me, if you watched the episode, sure Trunks was angry, but righteous indignation is as far as that would go, he certainly wasn't enraged. He absorbed the genki dama, which he didn't even intentionally form. Basically he mostly replicated a technique that he never learned, by accident, and then by sheer chance, or force of will, a little of both, and maybe even the power of love and friendship became empowered enough to take on a Merged Zamasu that was clearly heavily wounded and falling apart. It worked perfectly fine for me. I don't require any further explanation on that one.

Trunks got the transformation in Episode 61 when Black accused him of being responsible for everything that happened. He got really angry and powered up. The "spirit bomb" was just used for the Sword of Hope.

Sorry, guys, long day yesterday, I posted this right before going to bed and not really thinking much through lol. So that's where the "Rage" moniker comes from, that makes more sense. I see a lot of people talk shit about the Sword of Hope moment too like it's an absolute travesty of writing, but you guys in this thread are more upset over the SSRage form, huh? This was when he swelled up all USSJ like but then slimmed back down? Lemme go back and review the episode...

Ah, okay, everyone was talking about the blue aura seeming like God Ki, I didn't remember the blue part to his aura when he powered up vs Black. Yeah, okay, the Rage part for that form does make sense, it's definitely more reminiscent to Broly or Kale than SSJ2 or anything else we've seen Goku or Vegeta or other saiyans do. I still don't really have much problem with it, that's just what Saiyans do at this point in Dragon Ball - they get pissed and get more powerful than they were before. It was a lot like Gohan going SSJ2 for the first time. Now, I suppose most people have the problem with how on earth could Trunks go from being a very strong SSJ2 to being an SSR-level fighter? That I just chalked up to how wildly fluctuating the power level of SSB has been in the series. The way I see it SSB is just "perfect ki control and stronger than Goku SSJ2 to some unknown degree," and how much stronger seems to have almost no goalposts to measure from. So, yeah, SSJ2 Trunks got mad and fought on Goku SSB's level, even a bit above. Kind similar to how Vegeta got his "Mah Bulma Form" and pressed Beerus as a SSJ2.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion guys, I have no problems with Trunks' new form, but I can understand why others might. I just don't see it as the ridiculous asspull a lot of you guys do. Carry on my wayward sons.

I'm glad you corrected yourself. I had no problem with Future Trunks Spirit Bomb Sword or whatever it's called. I thought that was pretty cool. I'm questioning Future Trunks achieving Super Saiyan Rage.

What exactly is SSJ Rage an extension of? Is it the form after SSJ2? Is it the full power form of SSJ2 Quake of Fury Vegeta form? Is it even stronger than SSJ3? Is it from the SSJ Berserk/LSSJ side of the Saiyan transformations? How is it on par with SSJB and SSJ Rose? SSJ Rage is a form that comes out of nowhere that's quite strong that goes to a character who has no God ki ability and doesn't really train much either during the Goku Black arc. I'm not sure if Goku, Vegeta or Gohan can use it. A bit too random for me. You're saying that SSJB is too random with it's power so SSJ Rage being on par is a result of the randomness of SSJB. I think that's true. We compare things to SSJB but SSJB is all over the place when fighting against different characters.

So going back to my original topic, what if Goku's new form is some random form that doesn't get an explanation? Considering Goku's hair remains black, this form doesn't seem to really stem from any previous form. So I'm definitely curious on the background of how this form came about. But I can certainly wait a bit to find out

[JulieYBM]

We didn't get explanations for Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3. At least here we'll be getting Gokuu having a Genki-dama slammed into him, so that will be something.

[TheMikado]

We didn't get explanations for Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3. At least here we'll be getting Gokuu having a Genki-dama slammed into him, so that will be something.

I wish this myth would die already. We had an entire arc dedicated to figuring out what SSJ is, how it works, how to master it, and how to push it beyond that. That was literally the entire skill based aspect of the Cell arc.

[MajinMan]

We didn't get explanations for Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3. At least here we'll be getting Gokuu having a Genki-dama slammed into him, so that will be something.

I wish this myth would die already. We had an entire arc dedicated to figuring out what SSJ is, how it works, how to master it, and how to push it beyond that. That was literally the entire skill based aspect of the Cell arc.

No we didn't. Nothing in that arc touched on "what" Super Saiyan is or "how" it works. The entire point was to surpass is, and mastering it was something Goku thought of while trying to surpass it, which you stated as your last two points. And the finale involved a rage transformation (something we saw in the previous arc), which doesn't really "explain" anything other than "wow, so this is the true ascension of Super Saiyan!" And then everyone else unlocked it off screen.

[TheMikado]

We didn't get explanations for Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3. At least here we'll be getting Gokuu having a Genki-dama slammed into him, so that will be something.

I wish this myth would die already. We had an entire arc dedicated to figuring out what SSJ is, how it works, how to master it, and how to push it beyond that. That was literally the entire skill based aspect of the Cell arc.

No we didn't. Nothing in that arc touched on "what" Super Saiyan is or "how" it works. The entire point was to surpass is, and mastering it was something Goku thought of while trying to surpass it, which you stated as your last two points. And the finale involved a rage transformation (something we saw in the previous arc), which doesn't really "explain" anything other than "wow, so this is the true ascension of Super Saiyan!" And then everyone else unlocked it off screen.

What exactly are the what and how’s you need explained to you?

[MajinMan]

I wish this myth would die already. We had an entire arc dedicated to figuring out what SSJ is, how it works, how to master it, and how to push it beyond that. That was literally the entire skill based aspect of the Cell arc.

No we didn't. Nothing in that arc touched on "what" Super Saiyan is or "how" it works. The entire point was to surpass is, and mastering it was something Goku thought of while trying to surpass it, which you stated as your last two points. And the finale involved a rage transformation (something we saw in the previous arc), which doesn't really "explain" anything other than "wow, so this is the true ascension of Super Saiyan!" And then everyone else unlocked it off screen.

What exactly are the what and how’s you need explained to you?

I don't need any of that explained to me. It's fine as is. I was just saying that the Cell arc never touched on the what's and how's like you said it did.

[TheMikado]

No we didn't. Nothing in that arc touched on "what" Super Saiyan is or "how" it works. The entire point was to surpass is, and mastering it was something Goku thought of while trying to surpass it, which you stated as your last two points. And the finale involved a rage transformation (something we saw in the previous arc), which doesn't really "explain" anything other than "wow, so this is the true ascension of Super Saiyan!" And then everyone else unlocked it off screen.

What exactly are the what and how’s you need explained to you?

I don't need any of that explained to me. It's fine as is. I was just saying that the Cell arc never touched on the what's and how's like you said it did.

Obviously it did adequately because you don’t have any questions to ask. That’s kind of my point.

[Arugela]

I think we already got an explanation for the new form. It's further explanation that would be interesting.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Eh. I'm not a big fan of how this form has been promoted - it would've been way better if it was left as a hint in the latest NEP, or something. I understand that Shueisha/TOEI want to generate as much hype around Super as possible... oh well. It should still be cool.

Anyway, Goku hasn't slept in several days, plus he's been super-active. I'll go with insomnia-induced delirium as the trigger if there's no mention of it.

[Miracles]

I feel like our site's mission to document everything in the history of ever and provide as much context and information as possible is shaping everyone's modern expectations into everything I don't like and am disappointed to see in fandom.

I don't need everything explained and justified to me, especially the instant it's first introduced.

..And Bingo was his namO!
Exactly!

[KingKaash]

I think we already got an explanation for the new form. It's further explanation that would be interesting.

What confirmed factual explanation are you talking about? I'm not aware of any. Unless it's spoiler info then I don't want to know.

[Lord Beerus]

It seems as though, while the intense sense of forcing the Genki Dama from one user to another caused the Genki Dama to distort (and it's shown with how the Genki Dama unnaturally changes in size and shape) and disappear and turn into what seemed to be a black hole/void and Goku is consumed by after he falls into it exhausted from trying to force the Genki Dama towards Jiren. Goku then re-appeared with a new form.

[TheMikado]

It seems as though, while the intense sense of forcing the Genki Dama from one user to another caused the Genki Dama to distort (and it's shown with how the Genki Dama unnaturally changes in size and shape) and disappear and turn into what seemed to be a black hole/void and Goku is consumed by after he falls into it exhausted from trying to force the Genki Dama towards Jiren. Goku then re-appeared with a new form.

So a one time Goku specific form?

Looks like it is the move without thinking form..

[Kinokima]

We didn't get explanations for Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3. At least here we'll be getting Gokuu having a Genki-dama slammed into him, so that will be something.

I wish this myth would die already. We had an entire arc dedicated to figuring out what SSJ is, how it works, how to master it, and how to push it beyond that. That was literally the entire skill based aspect of the Cell arc.

I am rewatching the Cell arc now definitely not seeing all these thorough explanations you are speaking of

[Zagacious]

We didn't get explanations for Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3. At least here we'll be getting Gokuu having a Genki-dama slammed into him, so that will be something.

I wish this myth would die already. We had an entire arc dedicated to figuring out what SSJ is, how it works, how to master it, and how to push it beyond that. That was literally the entire skill based aspect of the Cell arc.

I am rewatching the Cell arc now definitely not seeing all these thorough explanations you are speaking of

Make sure you're not watching Kai or just random clips from YouTube, because the explanations and buildups are most definitely there.

[Lord Beerus]

According to Whis, the Genki Dama exploding aided in triggering Goku's new form, Mastery of Self-Movement/Secret of Selfishness. Goku didn't quite absorb all of the energy of the Genki Dama to attain the form, but partially doing that also helped. It's still a little vague as of now, so the jury is out.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

According to Whis, the Genki Dama exploding aided in triggering Goku's new form, Mastery of Self-Movement/Secret of Selfishness. Goku didn't quite absorb all of the energy of the Genki Dama to attain the form, but partially doing that also helped. It's still a little vague as of now, so the jury is out.

Well at least it's more of an explanation than what SS Rage and SS Berserk got.

[Lord Beerus]

According to Whis, the Genki Dama exploding aided in triggering Goku's new form, Mastery of Self-Movement/Secret of Selfishness. Goku didn't quite absorb all of the energy of the Genki Dama to attain the form, but partially doing that also helped. It's still a little vague as of now, so the jury is out.

Well at least it's more of an explanation than what SS Rage and SS Berserk got.

In think a Dragon Ball Super guidebook with inevitably cover that in the future. Just chalk those two up as example 66 and 67 of "Saiyan(s) getting angry and doing weirdly powerful shit".