How Vegeta could attain this new form

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TheOne
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How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:10 am

Basically I think it comes down to two things.

1) The episode title for 114. "Ghastly Explosive Burst of A New Super Warrior!" Assuming that this isn't going to be another Kale/Caulifla/Cabba transformation, it could be possible that fusion will come into play. I know not everyone is fond of fusion, especially since the fusion dance isn't canon. They could go Vegetto or Gogeta route. Going by the standard of Super, it's not far fetched that they'll just say that Vegeta has either seen or remember the dance. Anyways, bare with me. This fusion could help Goku and Vegeta rival Jiren ish. Not sure how it'll work with Goku being so depleted of energy, but it's still a thought.

2) They could take the same approach they did in the manga where Vegeta learned about Goku completely controlling SSB. Naturally, I believe they're going to build off of this temporary power Goku received in future arcs. He's going to figure this out at some point. Vegeta, being merged with goku, would gain the memories and experience Goku had during that time frame. So he wouldn't necessarily need a Spirit Bomb thrown at him. Vegeta doing some training could definitely help him acquire this form.

I'm sure some of you will tear this apart. It's fine. It's just some last minute thoughts before bed and wanted to see what everyone else thinks.
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by darzap » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:32 am

What do you mean by "isn't canon"? The fusion dance was done in canon by Trunks and Goten.

I could see multiple ways of Vegeta obtaining the form. Gokus traditional way of showcasing a new power is "there is this new enemy and this new power-up is necessary" and Vegetas is "Goku did it, so now I'm motivated to do it to catch up", so they'd be following an established pattern.

Some other thoughts about Vegeta attaining the form:
- I think Vegeta trained with Whis for a longer time than Goku, so they could use that to justify "Vegeta was on the way of obtaining Ultra Instinct through training, so here is an unfinished form of it to take on a severely weakened Jiren"
- There was a scene where Vegeta instinctively dodged Ribrianne and being surprised about that afterwards, which could be interpreted as a hint in the direction of thinking without moving
- Vegeta didn't donate Genki during the spirit bomb which was widely regarded as stupid writing. Maybe this is a setup for him using his Genki on his own later
- maybe there is a distinction between "Ultra Instinct"-capable and "Grey-eyed, past-his-limit, heat-emanating" Goku and Ultra Instinct can be used without the form and the form will not be a regular transformation in the future.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:07 am

darzap wrote:What do you mean by "isn't canon"? The fusion dance was done in canon by Trunks and Goten.

I could see multiple ways of Vegeta obtaining the form. Gokus traditional way of showcasing a new power is "there is this new enemy and this new power-up is necessary" and Vegetas is "Goku did it, so now I'm motivated to do it to catch up", so they'd be following an established pattern.

Some other thoughts about Vegeta attaining the form:
- I think Vegeta trained with Whis for a longer time than Goku, so they could use that to justify "Vegeta was on the way of obtaining Ultra Instinct through training, so here is an unfinished form of it to take on a severely weakened Jiren"
- There was a scene where Vegeta instinctively dodged Ribrianne and being surprised about that afterwards, which could be interpreted as a hint in the direction of thinking without moving
- Vegeta didn't donate Genki during the spirit bomb which was widely regarded as stupid writing. Maybe this is a setup for him using his Genki on his own later
- maybe there is a distinction between "Ultra Instinct"-capable and "Grey-eyed, past-his-limit, heat-emanating" Goku and Ultra Instinct can be used without the form and the form will not be a regular transformation in the future.
I feel like I shouldn't have to spell things out because it's so obvious, but Vegeta and Goku doing the fusion dance isn't canon. Only in the movie.
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:19 am

I don't want him to have this form, I want him to become as powerful as Goku but in another way. It's getting old seeing Vegeta constantly trailing behind Goku struggling to achieve whatever new form Goku has and then not quite making it to the same level as him.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by gohan_black » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:36 am

this is not even a form. its temporarly state

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by TBMx » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:59 pm

I'll tell you how.

Get off the sidelines, nut up and actually fight someone who isn't a chump.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:12 pm

He'll try to blow himself up with the final flash.
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:01 pm

Vegeta doesn't need this new form, and shouldn't get it. He should get something unique to himself. Ultra Instinct!! seems to be more a skill/technique enabled by various factors.

Maybe in his most recent round in the RoSaT, he trained himself to regenerate his dormant tail on command. During the ToP, he reveals this and does the old create an artificial moonlight trick. Vegeta is the only Saiyajin shown to display full control over his Oozaru transformation. While Oozaru, he becomes SSJB or whatever, and then this triggers an all new form/power-up exclusive to Vegeta. Taking him back to his original Saiyajin warrior roots, but spun together with current Vegeta's personality traits.

And he need not be concerned about going butt-naked. It was good on him to dress accordingly, assuming that what he's wearing is super-stretchy material.

... Or something like that. :/

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:44 pm

Super_Divine_Genki wrote:Vegeta doesn't need this new form, and shouldn't get it. He should get something unique to himself. Ultra Instinct!! seems to be more a skill/technique enabled by various factors.

Maybe in his most recent round in the RoSaT, he trained himself to regenerate his dormant tail on command. During the ToP, he reveals this and does the old create an artificial moonlight trick. Vegeta is the only Saiyajin shown to display full control over his Oozaru transformation. While Oozaru, he becomes SSJB or whatever, and then this triggers an all new form/power-up exclusive to Vegeta. Taking him back to his original Saiyajin warrior roots, but spun together with current Vegeta's personality traits.

And he need not be concerned about going butt-naked. It was good on him to dress accordingly, assuming that what he's wearing is super-stretchy material.

... Or something like that. :/
I couldn't possibly disagree more with you. Oozaru is useless, and has been ditched, as early as the Saiyan arc. It's gone now, gone.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, i don't think Vegeta should get something different/unique as opposed to Goku. Vegeta is a pure blooded Saiyan just like Goku, and they have always followed the same route, and they should definitely continue that. It's the only way Vegeta can keep up with Goku, because Goku always knows what the best route is.

That said, if anyone should follow his own unique route, it would be Gohan! Yes that's right. Gohan even mentioned to Goku that he was going in a different route than all these Super Saiyan Forms, and attain an Ultimate State that no one has ever seen before. And that's exactly what i want him to do!
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by sintzu » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:47 pm

This doesn't seem like a new form at all. It's just Goku being able to let his body move on its own. It's something even Beerus can potentially do so it can't be a Saiyan form. All Vegeta and Beerus have to do is train more and they'll eventually get it.
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Arugela » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:52 pm

Super_Divine_Genki wrote:Vegeta doesn't need this new form, and shouldn't get it. He should get something unique to himself. Ultra Instinct!! seems to be more a skill/technique enabled by various factors.

Maybe in his most recent round in the RoSaT, he trained himself to regenerate his dormant tail on command. During the ToP, he reveals this and does the old create an artificial moonlight trick. Vegeta is the only Saiyajin shown to display full control over his Oozaru transformation. While Oozaru, he becomes SSJB or whatever, and then this triggers an all new form/power-up exclusive to Vegeta. Taking him back to his original Saiyajin warrior roots, but spun together with current Vegeta's personality traits.

And he need not be concerned about going butt-naked. It was good on him to dress accordingly, assuming that what he's wearing is super-stretchy material.

... Or something like that. :/
Ah, but you forget the most important part. They have mysteriously left piccolo in the tournament with no real fighting. This may have revealed the reason!! :lol:

Can you imagine Vegeta in piccolo gear?! He'd look like an overgrown kid Gohan. The jokes would be flying everywhere! :crazy:

Vegeta: "Pulls out a phone and calls bulma after the laughing stops." Woman get me my pink shirt!!
Laughing restarts.
Gods: He's cheating. He's using at item!
.....
Piccolo: Don't worry, I didn't forget your pink shirt Vegeta!
Vegeta: "Looks under shirt" You prick!

[spoiler]Image
Image Which looks better. Piccolo clothes or the pink short. What about both?! I say only if they write badman on the cape! :mrgreen:
Image
Image[/spoiler]

Then again, It might look pretty good on him!

Maybe everyone should get piccolo gear!

This is the true reason piccolo exists. It's always been about the clothes beam! :shh:

.... You know, about now would be the perfect time for vegeta to reveal he's unlocked the secrets to SSRose. :think:

Of course he would have to rename it SSBadman!

Vegeta: Check this out Kakarot. I got a new transformation!
Laughter starts up again!
Vegeta: "Rips open current shirt to show off pink shirt!""Does superman pose!"

Just found this! :lol:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

I will absolutely love it if vegeta is relegated to learning and using SSRose for a long time! :thumbup:
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:30 pm

He won't attain it. And to be frankly honest, he doesn't need it either. I really want this to be just a thing for Goku.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by precita » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:13 pm

Does Vegeta really have to get every single new form Goku does? Thank god he never got SSJ3, etc.

Super Saiyan Blue is fine but leave it at that.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by larzooma » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:31 pm

Goku's new form didn't necessarily represent the next evolution along the SSJ line, and it's possible he's achieved something entirely independent. Vegeta may have discovered a new grade of SSJB, increasing his power and speed, but the change falls short of representing a new form. It's even possible he's reached something beyond SSJB, and learned to increase it to a level we would consider SSJB 2 or something along those lines. He did undergo intense training in the RoSaT. Who know's what he learned during that time.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by KidGoku>3 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:He won't attain it. And to be frankly honest, he doesn't need it either. I really want this to be just a thing for Goku.
Couldn't agree more with you Lord Beerus.

For once they followed a different path with the transformation (and yes IT IS a transformation. Ultra Instinct IS NOT. It's an ability on top of a transformation).
Before with SSJ1, 2, 3,4, SSB it was always the same. Rage brought the transformation, the need to get angry etc. For the first time they created a transformation that is incredibly calculated and zen like. So different from all the other transformations. This makes so much more sense.

Gohan should follow his own path. Vegeta too. Seeing them all in the same forms makes the form lose its value for me. It becomes insignificant.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by irreality » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:22 am

I don't see why Vegeta wouldn't get this form eventually. It is not like the Kaioken, something Goku learned alone. Both Vegeta and Goku got the same training from Whis and Whis hinted that they could reach their potential in different ways. Vegeta will just have a very different catalyst moment than Goku. It wasn't a matter of raw power level but a new step in their martial arts development.

Gohan ... I know fans of his love to point out his potential for raw strength. And I don't deny that. But he isn't a martial artist at heart the way Goku and Vegeta are. I don't think he deserves to get a God-level skillset when he doesn't have the mental dedication of a martial artist of that caliber.

I don't think this transformation/power up/skill is about raw power, but about a form of mental concentration that allows for inhuman reaction times/fighting.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Mercenary » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:08 am

I don't get you guys. Moving body on its own is what Vegeta wants to achieve so badly. It's the whole point of training with Whis since the very beginning.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Kinokima » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:08 am

Mercenary wrote:I don't get you guys. Moving body on its own is what Vegeta wants to achieve so badly. It's the whole point of training with Whis since the very beginning.

I was thinking this too. It was actually mentioned to Vegeta before Goku from what I recall and yet Goku still attains the form. So I don't think it is completely out of the question that Vegeta should be able to do this. Though it would be cool if he got a cool new form all on his own.

At the very least if Vegeta gets this or another form too that means more merchandise so it's only to their benefit to eventually give Vegeta some new form (that would hopefully look good as a figure). Though of course I am biased and want more Vegeta merchandise.

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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Arugela » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:49 pm

I'm hoping his new form is related to oozaru now. What if they have yamcha wish back all the sayians their tales back including the U6 ones. then have them all turn into oozaru for part of the tounament fight. They could all get new forms with update oozaru forms until their tales get cut off. Then we get the use of two old abilities. False moon from vegeta and clothes beam for all the sayians from piccolo afterwords! >< It would be cool if they can half use them.

Or if they wish back the tales and it gives the U6 the tales also because yamcha doesn't know there are other sayians and you get U6vsU7 oozarus for a bit with the U7 controlling their oozaru for the most part and the U6's bieng out of control because vegeta and friends don't realize the U6 also have tails when the moon goes up. That could be the something terrible happening. Assuming that wasn't ep 109 or 110 with goku and the spirit bomb.
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Re: How Vegeta could attain this new form

Post by Olympian » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:30 pm

If this is a state adquired from a certain level of consciousness, then Vegeta might not be able to. He isn`t as hothead as he used to be but he doesn`t flow in battle the way Goku does.
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