Why was the Spirit Bomb so powerful?

[GodVegetto91]

Normally, a Spirit Bomb is formed on a huge planet called earth, with at least 7 billion lifeforms, even WAY more, if we count the life force of all the animals, plants, trees, the air, etc. Not to mention all of that in combination with a small group of super warriors capable of possessing enormous power, especially in the Buu arc, against Kid Buu.

However, this time it was completely different. There was no atmosphere, air, trees, plants, etc, any of that stuff in the world of Void, it's empty by definition, the only life forms that were present there, were actual beings, and very powerful ones at that. However, only the U7 team gave Goku their energy, with the exception of Vegeta, which takes us to 9 fighters total (including Goku). Not even Beerus or Whis donated any of their energy. So how is it that this Spirit Bomb was considered so powerful?

The Spirit Bomb was considered a way bigger deal than SSJ Blue Goku fighting in Kaioken x20. Even Vermoud was worried about it, including Marcarita, implying it may be God of Destruction level?? And all the other Gods were impressed aswell (if you have watched the episode you'd have witnessed it).

Even Goku didn't feel the need to turn Super Saiyan at all when first firing the Genki-Dama towards Jiren. He was in Base form.

So Base form Goku throwing a Genki-Dama>SSJ Blue Kaioken x20 fighting.

So what are your thoughts about it guys?

Why was it so powerful?

[fadeddreams5]

Because of bad writing.


In-universe, Frieza alone is miles beyond Kid Buu and every single living being that donated during the Buu saga combined. Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan are also just slightly below god level now too.

[TekTheNinja]

I'm not entirely sure what kind of correlation Genki has with power, so it could be chalked up by just saying that everyone is a lot stronger than they were before, but honestly it's probably just bad writing. (Also notably, no plants or animals to draw power from are in sight either)

It would be less of an issue if many of the people from apposing universes, after seeing how strong Jiren is, decided to help lend energy because of seeing it as an easy way to get Jiren ringed out or something like that.

On a somewhat related note, it still annoys me that Vegeta refused to lend energy, especially since even Frieza of all people was willing to lend a hand.

[GodVegetto91]

If i remember correctly, Future Trunks also gained a tremendous amount of Power from just a few people, to the point where he could literally destroy Merged Zamasu's physical body, something SSJ Blue Vegetto failed to do, even with his Final Kamehameha. (That's Super for you).

[TekTheNinja]

If i remember correctly, Future Trunks also gained a tremendous amount of Power from just a few people, to the point where he could literally destroy Merged Zamasu's physical body, something SSJ Blue Vegetto failed to do, even with his Final Kamehameha. (That's Super for you).

True, and that was mostly energy from a few normal humans and utilized a technique Trunks had literally never heard of before he used it because... reasons. After something as egregiously ridiculous as that, this current spirit bomb plot point really doesn't bother me all that much in comparison. It's similar to how at first I found the Ressurection F movie to be only decent at best, but after the arc version aired, I began to like the movie more since I had the godawful arc to compare it to.

[Nero<>Akira]

Normally, a Spirit Bomb is formed on a huge planet called earth, with at least 7 billion lifeforms, even WAY more, if we count the life force of all the animals, plants, trees, the air, etc. Not to mention all of that in combination with a small group of super warriors capable of possessing enormous power, especially in the Buu arc, against Kid Buu.

However, this time it was completely different. There was no atmosphere, air, trees, plants, etc, any of that stuff in the world of Void, it's empty by definition, the only life forms that were present there, were actual beings, and very powerful ones at that. However, only the U7 team gave Goku their energy, with the exception of Vegeta, which takes us to 9 fighters total (including Goku). Not even Beerus or Whis donated any of their energy. So how is it that this Spirit Bomb was considered so powerful?

The Spirit Bomb was considered a way bigger deal than SSJ Blue Goku fighting in Kaioken x20. Even Vermoud was worried about it, including Marcarita, implying it may be God of Destruction level?? And all the other Gods were impressed aswell (if you have watched the episode you'd have witnessed it).

Even Goku didn't feel the need to turn Super Saiyan at all when first firing the Genki-Dama towards Jiren. He was in Base form.

So Base form Goku throwing a Genki-Dama>SSJ Blue Kaioken x20 fighting.

So what are your thoughts about it guys?

Why was it so powerful?

It was powerful because it had the life energy of 2 god level+ fighters: Gohan & Freeza plus fighters in U7 much stronger than they were in the Boo arc. Let's not forget 17 who is stronger than a SSJ3 Goku post Whis & Time Chamber training. Strongest spirit bomb to date.

[omaro34]

I'm not entirely sure what kind of correlation Genki has with power, so it could be chalked up by just saying that everyone is a lot stronger than they were before, but honestly it's probably just bad writing. (Also notably, no plants or animals to draw power from are in sight either)

It would be less of an issue if many of the people from apposing universes, after seeing how strong Jiren is, decided to help lend energy because of seeing it as an easy way to get Jiren ringed out or something like that.

On a somewhat related note, it still annoys me that Vegeta refused to lend energy, especially since even Frieza of all people was willing to lend a hand.

Annoyed me too. But Vegeta has a history of this. Especially in the DBZ movies where he cowered away from Broly then initially refused to give his energy out after he was taken out of the fight with ease.

Where was the Vegeta that was incredibly honorable in the Buu arc? Where was the Vegeta that died trying to protect the lives of those he really cared about? Keep in mind Vegeta was the one who orchestrated the whole Spirit Bomb idea to Goku when they fought Kid Buu. He tried to convince the humans on Earth to lend a helping hand and give their energy.

Now we fast forward to this, Freeza helping Goku but not Vegeta just means his character still has maturing to do; it's a regression in his character. Or bad writing.

[TheMikado]

I'm not entirely sure what kind of correlation Genki has with power, so it could be chalked up by just saying that everyone is a lot stronger than they were before, but honestly it's probably just bad writing. (Also notably, no plants or animals to draw power from are in sight either)

It would be less of an issue if many of the people from apposing universes, after seeing how strong Jiren is, decided to help lend energy because of seeing it as an easy way to get Jiren ringed out or something like that.

On a somewhat related note, it still annoys me that Vegeta refused to lend energy, especially since even Frieza of all people was willing to lend a hand.

Annoyed me too. But Vegeta has a history of this. Especially in the DBZ movies where he cowered away from Broly then initially refused to give his energy out after he was taken out of the fight with ease.

Where was the Vegeta that was incredibly honorable in the Buu arc? Where was the Vegeta that died trying to protect the lives of those he really cared about? Keep in mind Vegeta was the one who orchestrated the whole Spirit Bomb idea to Goku when they fought Kid Buu. He tried to convince the humans on Earth to lend a helping hand and give their energy.

Now we fast forward to this, Freeza helping Goku but not Vegeta just means his character still has maturing to do; it's a regression in his character. Or bad writing.

Broly was pre-Cell, post Namek arc. It shows the writers understood Vegeta's character even then. He wasn't fully on board with Goku yet but was willing to reach out when absolutely desperate like in the Frieza arc. This current Vegeta really has no reason to not contribute unless he thought was a dumb idea that wouldn't work because it wouldn't be powerful enough and it would drain his stamina in a fight that's only half over. Both are plausible reasons, but if Vegeta knew that then Goku should have known even moreso.

[omaro34]

I'm not entirely sure what kind of correlation Genki has with power, so it could be chalked up by just saying that everyone is a lot stronger than they were before, but honestly it's probably just bad writing. (Also notably, no plants or animals to draw power from are in sight either)

It would be less of an issue if many of the people from apposing universes, after seeing how strong Jiren is, decided to help lend energy because of seeing it as an easy way to get Jiren ringed out or something like that.

On a somewhat related note, it still annoys me that Vegeta refused to lend energy, especially since even Frieza of all people was willing to lend a hand.

Annoyed me too. But Vegeta has a history of this. Especially in the DBZ movies where he cowered away from Broly then initially refused to give his energy out after he was taken out of the fight with ease.

Where was the Vegeta that was incredibly honorable in the Buu arc? Where was the Vegeta that died trying to protect the lives of those he really cared about? Keep in mind Vegeta was the one who orchestrated the whole Spirit Bomb idea to Goku when they fought Kid Buu. He tried to convince the humans on Earth to lend a helping hand and give their energy.

Now we fast forward to this, Freeza helping Goku but not Vegeta just means his character still has maturing to do; it's a regression in his character. Or bad writing.

Broly was pre-Cell, post Namek arc. It shows the writers understood Vegeta's character even then. He wasn't fully on board with Goku yet but was willing to reach out when absolutely desperate like in the Frieza arc. This current Vegeta really has no reason to not contribute unless he thought was a dumb idea that wouldn't work because it wouldn't be powerful enough and it would drain his stamina in a fight that's only half over. Both are plausible reasons, but if Vegeta knew that then Goku should have known even moreso.

I understand. And in the Buu arc when Vegeta orchestrated the Spirit Bomb idea it was a last ditch effort. However, he felt Jiren's power like everyone else did. He saw Goku get tossed aside like a rag doll. The Spirit Bomb potentially could have worked if Vegeta assisted because it felt as it was that Jiren had to use more energy than they were accustomed to seeing him using. Then again that's just speculation and can't be proven.

But seeing Vegeta mature in the Buu arc and not help when Freeza of all people did just paints a strange picture that has the audience asking questions. However, Freeza is a snake and probably helped to convince everyone on U7 he was on their side when all of a sudden he takes advantage of Goku in a weakened state in the cliffhanger we just saw. Freeza's motives are currently unclear and that's what makes him interesting.

[TheMikado]

Annoyed me too. But Vegeta has a history of this. Especially in the DBZ movies where he cowered away from Broly then initially refused to give his energy out after he was taken out of the fight with ease.

Where was the Vegeta that was incredibly honorable in the Buu arc? Where was the Vegeta that died trying to protect the lives of those he really cared about? Keep in mind Vegeta was the one who orchestrated the whole Spirit Bomb idea to Goku when they fought Kid Buu. He tried to convince the humans on Earth to lend a helping hand and give their energy.

Now we fast forward to this, Freeza helping Goku but not Vegeta just means his character still has maturing to do; it's a regression in his character. Or bad writing.

Broly was pre-Cell, post Namek arc. It shows the writers understood Vegeta's character even then. He wasn't fully on board with Goku yet but was willing to reach out when absolutely desperate like in the Frieza arc. This current Vegeta really has no reason to not contribute unless he thought was a dumb idea that wouldn't work because it wouldn't be powerful enough and it would drain his stamina in a fight that's only half over. Both are plausible reasons, but if Vegeta knew that then Goku should have known even moreso.

I understand. And in the Buu arc when Vegeta orchestrated the Spirit Bomb idea it was a last ditch effort. However, he felt Jiren's power like everyone else did. He saw Goku get tossed aside like a rag doll. The Spirit Bomb potentially could have worked if Vegeta assisted because it felt as it was that Jiren had to use more energy than they were accustomed to seeing him using. Then again that's just speculation and can't be proven.

But seeing Vegeta mature in the Buu arc and not help when Freeza of all people did just paints a strange picture that has the audience asking questions. However, Freeza is a snake and probably helped to convince everyone on U7 he was on their side when all of a sudden he takes advantage of Goku in a weakened state in the cliffhanger we just saw. Freeza's motives are currently unclear and that's what makes him interesting.

Frieza is the least concerning thing about this. It's really why Vegeta of all people has no interest. He's been hit by it and helped form it. He knows what it's capable of first hand and what it can do. Frieza should be less interested because Goku tried and failed on him and it wasn't powerful enough. Frieza knowing he has to give up energy on something that didn't even work on him back on Namek would make sense. I would like to see the character's internal reasoning.

[TheOne]

Lack of creativity, plot and common sense

But most of the fans here justify why it was so powerful by coming up with all kinds of theories and reasons behind it. Essentially saying that the writers are incapable of lacking consistency and making mistakes.

If you have to dig through all kinds of reasons to justify something happening in a kids show, then you're probably wrong.

[KuririnNoKotoKa]

There is nothing in the show that implies the Genki Dama was actually powerful? If anything, it's the opposite, we have direct statements that it isn't powerful enough and Goku is certainly aware of that.

It is, however, certainly powerful enough to harm a SSB Goku that's out of energy which isn't a particularly huge feat considering who gave genki to it.

[Lord Beerus]

It was powerful because it had the life energy of 2 god level+ fighters: Gohan & Freeza plus fighters in U7 much stronger than they were in the Boo arc. Let's not forget 17 who is stronger than a SSJ3 Goku post Whis & Time Chamber training. Strongest spirit bomb to date.

That's what I figure to be the case as well.

Because everyone in the main cast, Gohan, Freeza and Android 17 in particular, have gotten much stronger since the end of the Majin Boo arc, the energy given to Goku's Genki Dama is much more potent. I mean, I'm certain that if just Gohan, Freeza and Android 17 pooled their power together, they could create an energy sphere of great devastation given they are at least as strong as SSJB Goku. Also, given that Android 17 and 18 have a limitless energy supply, they can realistically give as much energy as they please.

[TheMikado]

Lack of creativity, plot and common sense

But most of the fans here justify why it was so powerful by coming up with all kinds of theories and reasons behind it. Essentially saying that the writers are incapable of lacking consistency and making mistakes.

If you have to dig through all kinds of reasons to justify something happening in a kids show, then you're probably wrong.

That's the point. We shouldn't have to guess. In the past we were given explicit explanations on why the one on King Kai's planet was not very powerful versus the one on Earth and even how the one on Earth lost some of its potency and how Krillin and Gohan were able to interact with it. Further we were told on Namek why it wasn't effective against Frieza, and then in the Buu saga the entire climax surrounding pulling off a Spirit Bomb with all the people of Earth.

[Hit-Man]

Why is it so powerful? The answer is simple: Tien donated. If it wasn't for his amazing energy Goku wouldn't be the man he is today.

(Ultra Instinct)

[Big Black Sayian]

There is nothing in the show that implies the Genki Dama was actually powerful? If anything, it's the opposite, we have direct statements that it isn't powerful enough and Goku is certainly aware of that.

It is, however, certainly powerful enough to harm a SSB Goku that's out of energy which isn't a particularly huge feat considering who gave genki to it.

Uh it was really big? :p

[Ranmaru Rei]

Don't forget, the Grand Priest covered Zen-ohs from it.
Also, Vegeta helped Goku in another way. He protected Goku form interferences. Do you remember, what Ribrianne tried to do?

[TheOne]

Don't forget, the Grand Priest covered Zen-ohs from it.
Also, Vegeta helped Goku in another way. He protected Goku form interferences. Do you remember, what Ribrianne tried to do?

That was when I REALLY got tired of her and her antics.

[jplaya2023]

Because of bad writing.


In-universe, Frieza alone is miles beyond Kid Buu and every single living being that donated during the Buu saga combined. Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan are also just slightly below god level now too.

they donated their genki not their ki/energy so it's not the same as all their power combining into a spirit bomb

[GodVegetto91]

Because of bad writing.


In-universe, Frieza alone is miles beyond Kid Buu and every single living being that donated during the Buu saga combined. Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan are also just slightly below god level now too.

Your post actually agrees with the Spirit Bomb being so powerful around this time, rather than disagree. You said it yourself, Freeza alone is much more powerful than Kid Buu, so if there are 9 fighters, 4 of which are God level, then by definition, this spirit bomb would be very powerful, hence i don't see how you can call that bad writing.