For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

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For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by precita » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:27 pm

I know we can't judge the two Nameks yet, but from what we've seen, Hit is literally the only character on Super Saiyan Blue level or above.

Caulifa just recently unlocked Super Saiyan 2, and Kale's overall power is still too ambiguous to judge it properly. Cabba, Frost, Botamo, and Magetta all seem decently strong but compared to U7 they've been treated like pushovers most of the time. Dr. Rota of course was a gag character too.

It'd really odd that Universe 7 seems to run circles around its Universe 6 counterpart. If Vegeta never showed Cabba how to unlock Super Saiyan, the two Saiyan girls wouldn't have it either, and they'd be even more outclassed.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:58 pm

precita wrote:I know we can't judge the two Nameks yet, but from what we've seen, Hit is literally the only character on Super Saiyan Blue level or above.

Caulifa just recently unlocked Super Saiyan 2, and Kale's overall power is still too ambiguous to judge it properly. Cabba, Frost, Botamo, and Magetta all seem decently strong but compared to U7 they've been treated like pushovers most of the time. Dr. Rota of course was a gag character too.

It'd really odd that Universe 7 seems to run circles around its Universe 6 counterpart. If Vegeta never showed Cabba how to unlock Super Saiyan, the two Saiyan girls wouldn't have it either, and they'd be even more outclassed.
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Universe 6 is 3rd strongest overall or maybe even second on average.

You mention Hit is the only really strong one and we know there is a Super warrior coming and I think that warrio is Hit's replacement for team Universe 6. I therefore think it is something the Saiyans or Namekians do. I think it is the Namekians due to what you said about us knowing nothing about them.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Namz » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:59 pm

Well, it's not like universe 2 has a "Jiren".

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by MrBlackFox » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:20 pm

Universe 6 is less experienced than 7, except for Hit, but Kale, Cabba and Caulifla have a monstrous potential, it's like they are at a previous stage and need development ( who it's happening, like in Goku vs Caulifla or in the next episode with Vegeta and Cabba)

I'd not be surprised if they win at the end, looks like Cabba will have a rage boost next week and who knows how strong could be, especially if he'll get a Zenkai of some sort after a fight

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by MaskedRider » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:28 pm

I would say its the same reason why Future Trunks and Trunks are different (Pfft, of course they are lol what kind of a thing to say)

Different experiences.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by darzap » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:42 pm

The original timeline of U7 doesn't have many strong fighters either and most of the U7 strong fighters are anomalies, Buu is some evil as old as the universe (we do not know whether there is a Buu in U6, but if he exists there, he seems to be in hibernation), #17, #18 and Cell were artificial lifeforms and everything beyond SSJ1 pretty much developed as a response to those threats and the emergence of those threats can be traced back to Goku's story.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:44 pm

U7 wasn't supposed to be this powerful. To be completely honest, the only reason everyone is still around is because Trunks changed everything.

So U6 was at a slight disadvantage. Not to mention Goku and Vegeta had 3 days in the hyperbolic time chamber prior to the tournament. So they kinda cheated to get to this point
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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Big Black Sayian » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:46 pm

To be fair most fighters in the ToP aren't SSB level.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by precita » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:48 pm

Big Black Saiyan wrote:To be fair most fighters in the ToP aren't SSB level.
But U6 is a parallel universe. Frost is also nowhere on Freeza's level.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:52 pm

precita wrote:
Big Black Saiyan wrote:To be fair most fighters in the ToP aren't SSB level.
But U6 is a parallel universe. Frost is also nowhere on Freeza's level.
Frost should be stronger than Frieza since he is not the lazy one but everything is mainly in favour of Universe 7 for some reason.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Ziegander » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:56 pm

The problem, again, is power scaling.

It occurred to me today that Base Cabba seems to fight at a level pretty equivalent to Base Vegeta which should be equivalent to Base Goku, Base Goku who can fight evenly against Final Form Freeza, Freeza who utterly decimated Super Saiyan Gohan (severely weaker than he once was, but still a Super Saiyan). Super can't seem to decide if the base forms and the super saiyan forms continue to get immensely stronger as time goes on or if they are simply benchmarks of power for the saiyans. Goku uses them as though they are power bench marks against everyone from Caulifla to Jiren. But... Super seems to indicate very clearly that Goku's base form is WAAAAAAAAY stronger than his super saiyan form was on Namek.

This leads us to the interesting conclusion that, while Cabba could not have fended off Golden Freeza, he logically should have done just as well against final form Freeza as Goku or Vegeta, meaning his base form is phenomenally powerful, more powerful than every non-saiyan in U7, barring Freeza and maybe Buu, enough to trash foes potentially as strong as Dabura. Think about it, without transforming into a Super Saiyan, Cabba is strong enough to defeat Shin, so arguably he's probably strong enough to defeat U6's Supreme Kai as well. Aside from Hit, who seems to have no actual reason to exist let alone be as strong as he is, before teaching Caulifla the SSJ transformation, Cabba and Frost are the strongest characters in the universe, stronger, likely, than their own Supreme Kai. They didn't have a Buu-level threat to answer. Why Hit is so strong is a mystery. Cabba is already more than enough to handle any real threat to his universe without using the Super Saiyan transformation.

How is Cabba's base form that strong? Why is Cabba's base form that strong? Those are good questions that I don't have answers to, but, from my viewpoint, it's not that U6 doesn't have many strong fighters - they have a bunch, actually - the issue is that U7's fighters are hilariously, overwhelmingly stronger than they need to be.
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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:25 pm

The U6 saiyans never faced the dangers the U7 ones did. Hence, they never had the opportunity to grow. However, it's VERY clear their potential eclipses that of the U7 saiyans. In their natural, untrained forms, they're equal to Goku and Vegeta at base, despite all their training throughout the years. Secondly, the U6 saiyan race evolved passed tails for who knows how long. U7 saiyans just recently stopped growing them. Lastly, they're actually pure-hearted by nature, giving them easy access to SSJG.

Imagine if Goku never hit his head. The entire saiyan race, assuming it'd be alive, would be different and far, far weaker than the U6 ones. Circumstances allowed Goku and Co to reach their bizarre levels.

And yes, then there's Hit, who rivals gods.

I'd say U6 and U7 are pretty on par. The former have had too much peace to allow them to grow though. That said, in the brief moments the saiyans there have corresponded with the U7 saiyans, they've skipped levels that took Goku years to reach.
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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by The_Destroyer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:12 am

I wouldn't call Magetta weak. He's either their 3rd or 4th strongest. The only way Vegeta has beaten him is by insulting him.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Bullza » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:32 am

precita wrote:
Big Black Saiyan wrote:To be fair most fighters in the ToP aren't SSB level.
But U6 is a parallel universe. Frost is also nowhere on Freeza's level.
Frieza trained to unlock his latent potential, Frost seemingly didn't.

It all comes down to a different history. The way Frieza was and the way he treated the Saiyans led to the eventual run in with Goku, he ended up dying, came back and trained hard just to get revenge.

Meanwhile over in Universe 6, everyone thinks that Frost is a great guy. He wouldn't be getting into any serious battles, especially with Saiyans, Cabba thought he was hero. So if he'd never been savagely beaten in the same way then he wouldn't have felt the need to train in the same way either.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:05 am

I disagree, I'd say Universe 6 has a pretty significant leg up on Universe 7, with Universe 7's advantage mainly coming down to the power gap between Goku and Vegeta versus the others. Goku and Vegeta trained with gods, and Hit still has their number. Cabba and Caulifla learned Super Saiyan late, but developed far quicker than the U7 Saiyans who had the power for years. Kale is just a horrifying mutant who can tank attacks from Super Saiyan Blue, something that can't be said for her (admittedly non-canon) male counterpart.

Even Botamo and Magetta are pretty potent. Imagine fighting them outside a tournament situation. Though they seem like gag characters, neither of them have ever been defeated from taking damage. Insult Magetta as much as you like, but in a real-world battle, once he sets his sights on you there's little you can do but run. Insult him as much you like, all it will do is buy you time.

Frost is definitely weaker than Freeza, but he just went about things a different way. We'll have to wait and see from the Namekians but if they turn out to be weaker than Piccolo it won't mean much. Remember, at this point Piccolo is technically a hybrid of a reincarnated demon king, a planetary guardian and the most powerful warrior on Namek.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:25 am

Ziegander wrote:The problem, again, is power scaling.

It occurred to me today that Base Cabba seems to fight at a level pretty equivalent to Base Vegeta which should be equivalent to Base Goku, Base Goku who can fight evenly against Final Form Freeza, Freeza who utterly decimated Super Saiyan Gohan (severely weaker than he once was, but still a Super Saiyan). Super can't seem to decide if the base forms and the super saiyan forms continue to get immensely stronger as time goes on or if they are simply benchmarks of power for the saiyans. Goku uses them as though they are power bench marks against everyone from Caulifla to Jiren. But... Super seems to indicate very clearly that Goku's base form is WAAAAAAAAY stronger than his super saiyan form was on Namek.

This leads us to the interesting conclusion that, while Cabba could not have fended off Golden Freeza, he logically should have done just as well against final form Freeza as Goku or Vegeta, meaning his base form is phenomenally powerful, more powerful than every non-saiyan in U7, barring Freeza and maybe Buu, enough to trash foes potentially as strong as Dabura. Think about it, without transforming into a Super Saiyan, Cabba is strong enough to defeat Shin, so arguably he's probably strong enough to defeat U6's Supreme Kai as well. Aside from Hit, who seems to have no actual reason to exist let alone be as strong as he is, before teaching Caulifla the SSJ transformation, Cabba and Frost are the strongest characters in the universe, stronger, likely, than their own Supreme Kai. They didn't have a Buu-level threat to answer. Why Hit is so strong is a mystery. Cabba is already more than enough to handle any real threat to his universe without using the Super Saiyan transformation.

How is Cabba's base form that strong? Why is Cabba's base form that strong? Those are good questions that I don't have answers to, but, from my viewpoint, it's not that U6 doesn't have many strong fighters - they have a bunch, actually - the issue is that U7's fighters are hilariously, overwhelmingly stronger than they need to be.
Hit is that strong because he has been fighting and honing his abilities for 1000 years.
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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:12 pm

I've made point about this in the past so I'll just rephrase myself:

The context of how Universe 7 changed is so far from the the norm compare to other universes in the Tournament Of Power. And Universe 7 having the second lowest mortal rating out the entire multiverse actually brilliantly reflects that. Shit happened Universe 7 that really shouldn't have happened and had extensional effect on the growth of the main cast in terms of personality, but so much more so in the strength department. They've went through so many major conflicts and it's only through sheer good luck that the universe wasn't destroyed and they managed to get more powerful in the process. The Namek and Freeza arc were a big fucking fluke in the making. It was only through pure coincidence and good fortune that Freeza got the drop on Namek and the Namekian Dragon Balls. If Freeza never found about Namek, a lot shit doesn't happen.

And even before that, Vegeta living beyond the Saiyan arc was all down to just good fortune and having a hell of a lot of good graces on his side. Universe 7, but more specifically Goku and Vegeta, have had an incredible amount of luck and good favors bestowed upon them from people in high places to get them where they are right now. Just imagine if Krillin killed Vegeta in the Saiyan arc or if Freeza never heard of Namek. Could you imagine how different shit would have turned out? It's a a fucking miracle that the main cast are as strong as they are when you think about.

Scenarios in Universe 7 like Raditz finding Goku on Earth and Freeza and his army going to Namek were all freak accidents that had a major affect on the perspective of Universe 7. And then there are incidents like the Androids (16, 17 and 18) being activated and Majin Boo being resurrected, which were events that didn't need to happen but the main cast contributed in a significant way to them occurring. The main cast of Universe 7 had to constantly prepare themselves for the next upcoming threat, and because of this, were granted so many shortcuts in getting very strong (Training with Kami, training with King Kai, the ROSAT, the Gravity Machine, encountering Guru, training with Kaioshin and Elder Kai).

Goku, Vegeta and Gohan only got as strong as they have because of the big unconditional favors they get from the Gods of their universe. I mean, Goku wouldn't have gotten as strong as he did in the Saiyan arc or the Majin Boo arc if the literal God of Death himself didn't grant him the major favor of allowing to keep his body in death so he could train. And Vegeta would have become a SSJB if Whis didn't throw him a bone and train him just because he gave him some tasty food. And Gohan would haven't have become nowhere near as` strong as he did in the Majin Boo arc if not for the freak accident of breaking the Zeta Sword when training with Kaioshin and Kibito and Elder Kai unlocking his latent power with the promise of touching some breasts.

If you think about it, with how strong characters like Cabba, Caulilfa and Kale became in as quickly as the did, the Saiyans in Universe 6 have far more potential than any other Saiyan in Universe 7. If they had the same amount of goodwill and grace bestowed upon them like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and the rest of the cast were, Universe 6 would be far stronger than Universe 7. And that's not even taking into consideration Frost being able to replicate Freeza's 100% Bulked Form after just witnessing it once. Can you imagine how much of a monster in battle he would be in battle if he had something like the ROSAT at his disposal? And don't even get me started on Hit...

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:32 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:I've made point about this in the past so I'll just rephrase myself:

The context of how Universe 7 changed is so far from the the norm compare to other universes in the Tournament Of Power. And Universe 7 having the second lowest mortal rating out the entire multiverse actually brilliantly reflects that. Shit happened Universe 7 that really shouldn't have happened and had extensional effect on the growth of the main cast in terms of personality, but so much more so in the strength department. They've went through so many major conflicts and it's only through sheer good luck that the universe wasn't destroyed and they managed to get more powerful in the process. The Namek and Freeza arc were a big fucking fluke in the making. It was only through pure coincidence and good fortune that Freeza got the drop on Namek and the Namekian Dragon Balls. If Freeza never found about Namek, a lot shit doesn't happen.

And even before that, Vegeta living beyond the Saiyan arc was all down to just good fortune and having a hell of a lot of good graces on his side. Universe 7, but more specifically Goku and Vegeta, have had an incredible amount of luck and good favors bestowed upon them from people in high places to get them where they are right now. Just imagine if Krillin killed Vegeta in the Saiyan arc or if Freeza never heard of Namek. Could you imagine how different shit would have turned out? It's a a fucking miracle that the main cast are as strong as they are when you think about.

Scenarios in Universe 7 like Raditz finding Goku on Earth and Freeza and his army going to Namek were all freak accidents that had a major affect on the perspective of Universe 7. And then there are incidents like the Androids (16, 17 and 18) being activated and Majin Boo being resurrected, which were events that didn't need to happen but the main cast contributed in a significant way to them occurring. The main cast of Universe 7 had to constantly prepare themselves for the next upcoming threat, and because of this, were granted so many shortcuts in getting very strong (Training with Kami, training with King Kai, the ROSAT, the Gravity Machine, encountering Guru, training with Kaioshin and Elder Kai).

Goku, Vegeta and Gohan only got as strong as they have because of the big unconditional favors they get from the Gods of their universe. I mean, Goku wouldn't have gotten as strong as he did in the Saiyan arc or the Majin Boo arc if the literal God of Death himself didn't grant him the major favor of allowing to keep his body in death so he could train. And Vegeta would have become a SSJB if Whis didn't throw him a bone and train him just because he gave him some tasty food. And Gohan would haven't have become nowhere near as` strong as he did in the Majin Boo arc if not for the freak accident of breaking the Zeta Sword when training with Kaioshin and Kibito and Elder Kai unlocking his latent power with the promise of touching some breasts.

If you think about it, with how strong characters like Cabba, Caulilfa and Kale became in as quickly as the did, the Saiyans in Universe 6 have far more potential than any other Saiyan in Universe 7. If they had the same amount of goodwill and grace bestowed upon them like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and the rest of the cast were, Universe 6 would be far stronger than Universe 7. And that's not even taking into consideration Frost being able to replicate Freeza's 100% Bulked Form after just witnessing it once. Can you imagine how much of a monster in battle he would be in battle if he had something like the ROSAT at his disposal? And don't even get me started on Hit...
Just imagine if Frieza had shot Goku instead of Krillin or Piccolo on Namek. That would have changed everything.

But you're right, a lot of the gains Goku and co made after King Piccolo were under the patronage of a god. Even the Hyperbolic Time Chamber counts since that's not something they'd normally have access to without Kami or Dende. Up until Whis showed up, it sounded like Goku regularly popped over to King Kai's place for further training.

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by gofishus » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:52 pm

They do. Hit, Kale, Caulifla, Cabba are roughly equivalent to Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, Gohan (sorry Android 17). Meanwhile Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Roshi doesn't really match up to Botamo or Magetta

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Re: For being a parallel to U7, Universe 6 doesn't really have many strong fighters

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:53 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I've made point about this in the past so I'll just rephrase myself:

The context of how Universe 7 changed is so far from the the norm compare to other universes in the Tournament Of Power. And Universe 7 having the second lowest mortal rating out the entire multiverse actually brilliantly reflects that. Shit happened Universe 7 that really shouldn't have happened and had extensional effect on the growth of the main cast in terms of personality, but so much more so in the strength department. They've went through so many major conflicts and it's only through sheer good luck that the universe wasn't destroyed and they managed to get more powerful in the process. The Namek and Freeza arc were a big fucking fluke in the making. It was only through pure coincidence and good fortune that Freeza got the drop on Namek and the Namekian Dragon Balls. If Freeza never found about Namek, a lot shit doesn't happen.

And even before that, Vegeta living beyond the Saiyan arc was all down to just good fortune and having a hell of a lot of good graces on his side. Universe 7, but more specifically Goku and Vegeta, have had an incredible amount of luck and good favors bestowed upon them from people in high places to get them where they are right now. Just imagine if Krillin killed Vegeta in the Saiyan arc or if Freeza never heard of Namek. Could you imagine how different shit would have turned out? It's a fucking miracle that the main cast are as strong as they are when you think about.

Scenarios in Universe 7 like Raditz finding Goku on Earth and Freeza and his army going to Namek were all freak accidents that had a major affect on the perspective of Universe 7. And then there are incidents like the Androids (16, 17 and 18) being activated and Majin Boo being resurrected, which were events that didn't need to happen but the main cast contributed in a significant way to them occurring. The main cast of Universe 7 had to constantly prepare themselves for the next upcoming threat, and because of this, were granted so many shortcuts in getting very strong (Training with Kami, training with King Kai, the ROSAT, the Gravity Machine, encountering Guru, training with Kaioshin and Elder Kai).

Goku, Vegeta and Gohan only got as strong as they have because of the big unconditional favors they get from the Gods of their universe. I mean, Goku wouldn't have gotten as strong as he did in the Saiyan arc or the Majin Boo arc if the literal God of Death himself didn't grant him the major favor of allowing to keep his body in death so he could train. And Vegeta would have become a SSJB if Whis didn't throw him a bone and train him just because he gave him some tasty food. And Gohan would haven't have become nowhere near as` strong as he did in the Majin Boo arc if not for the freak accident of breaking the Zeta Sword when training with Kaioshin and Kibito and Elder Kai unlocking his latent power with the promise of touching some breasts.

If you think about it, with how strong characters like Cabba, Caulilfa and Kale became in as quickly as the did, the Saiyans in Universe 6 have far more potential than any other Saiyan in Universe 7. If they had the same amount of goodwill and grace bestowed upon them like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and the rest of the cast were, Universe 6 would be far stronger than Universe 7. And that's not even taking into consideration Frost being able to replicate Freeza's 100% Bulked Form after just witnessing it once. Can you imagine how much of a monster in battle he would be in battle if he had something like the ROSAT at his disposal? And don't even get me started on Hit...
Just imagine if Frieza had shot Goku instead of Krillin or Piccolo on Namek. That would have changed everything.

But you're right, a lot of the gains Goku and co made after King Piccolo were under the patronage of a god. Even the Hyperbolic Time Chamber counts since that's not something they'd normally have access to without Kami or Dende. Up until Whis showed up, it sounded like Goku regularly popped over to King Kai's place for further training.
It's insane the amount of good fortune and favours that Universe 7 has received. All it would have taken is Vegeta dying on Earth or Goku dying on Namek and Universe 7 would have been erased without a thought.

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