What happened to having henchmen?

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Hellspawn28
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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:44 am

I felt like Henchmen are over done in the series. I like having a villain that does not need other people to help them out.
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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:37 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
Ilikepictures-meh wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote: If that happens when Goku and Vegeta are around, which they are all the time nowadays, then aren't the weaker characters acting as their henchmen, ain't nobody wants to see a fight between lackeys when the main dudes stand around staring each other..
Goku/Vegeta could easily be facing off against the main guy, while the others are facing off the henchmen. With them showing both battle perspectives till Goku "henchmen" beats the big bads henchmen and we focus on the more legitimate and serious parts of the arcs big fight. It's not that complicated
It kinda is, Because there is no reason for goku's henchmen to be facing other henchmen when goku gives no shits about who he is fighting, if there are warriors who want to fight, he will clean house himself if he has got the chance..
It's not like outside the tournament Goku doesn't have access to senzu either so stamina isn't a problem..

Most of the times others doing something in these situations will feel forced..
What feels forced is him constantly having cheer leaders doing nothing. Besides no matter how strong Goku is, he can always get caught off guard by strange abilities.
Just have a big bad who's not only powerful, but has strange abilites that prevent Goku from attacking his men, or Goku goes to attack his men and the big bad knocks Goku back and they start their fight. Hell make the henchmen strong enough to not get one shorted by Goku, but weaker than him and have the rest of the crew defeat these henchmen using numbers, the environment, strategy, and some luck. Again it's not that complicated. It's one of the reasons the Saiyan arc is well received, it took a combined effort by the heroes to win. Which is always more exciting than Goku just winning alone or pulling out another transformation imo.
Even though Krillin, Piccolo, and the others should have killed Nappa imo, but that's another discussion entirely.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:19 pm

Honestly, I've always felt the inclusion of henchman just unnecessarily pad out the plot by giving the cast and artificial hurdle to overcome. I'd just rather have a central protagonist so the plot will be more focused and less scattered. Besides, Dragon Ball is really bad when it comes to handling henchman. The only henchman that really left an impression was Nappa. The Red Ribbon Army got singlehandedly decimated by Goku, the Ginyu Force were fodder for Goku and Vegeta, the Cell Jrs solely existed to be killed Gohan, and Babidi's minions were forced stakes and tension incarnate.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:59 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Honestly, I've always felt the inclusion of henchman just unnecessarily pad out the plot by giving the cast and artificial hurdle to overcome. I'd just rather have a central protagonist so the plot will be more focused and less scattered. Besides, Dragon Ball is really bad when it comes to handling henchman. The only henchman that really left an impression was Nappa. The Red Ribbon Army got singlehandedly decimated by Goku, the Ginyu Force were fodder for Goku and Vegeta, the Cell Jrs solely existed to be killed Gohan, and Babidi's minions were forced stakes and tension incarnate.
Zarbon on Namek nearly killed Vegeta and the Ginyu Force when have murdered everyone if Goku didn’t save thier asses. Ginyu stealing Goku’s body is the primary reason Goku’s Power Level was 3 million when he faced Freeza. Freeza’s henchmen was also the reason the Namekians were on verge of death. So not sure why the Ginyu Force is fodder when Nappa did the same.

And how can you forget Tamborine from Dragon Ball who murdered Krillin and kicked started the arc?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:45 pm

HeroR wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Honestly, I've always felt the inclusion of henchman just unnecessarily pad out the plot by giving the cast and artificial hurdle to overcome. I'd just rather have a central protagonist so the plot will be more focused and less scattered. Besides, Dragon Ball is really bad when it comes to handling henchman. The only henchman that really left an impression was Nappa. The Red Ribbon Army got singlehandedly decimated by Goku, the Ginyu Force were fodder for Goku and Vegeta, the Cell Jrs solely existed to be killed Gohan, and Babidi's minions were forced stakes and tension incarnate.
Zarbon on Namek nearly killed Vegeta and the Ginyu Force when have murdered everyone if Goku didn’t save thier asses. Ginyu stealing Goku’s body is the primary reason Goku’s Power Level was 3 million when he faced Freeza. Freeza’s henchmen was also the reason the Namekians were on verge of death. So not sure why the Ginyu Force is fodder when Nappa did the same.

And how can you forget Tamborine from Dragon Ball who murdered Krillin and kicked started the arc?
The fact I forget about Tambourine killing Krillin kinda shows much of a lack of an impression he made. Not mention the only reason Goku loses to Tambourine in the their first encounter is because Goku used up all his energy in the 22nd WMAT. Come the second time they fight, Goku curbstomps him. It's the same deal with Zarbon. He beat ups Vegeta (who was an inconsequential character at the time that skirmish happened) after he transforms, then Vegeta just comes back and easily kills him after getting a BS powerup.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:48 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Honestly, I've always felt the inclusion of henchman just unnecessarily pad out the plot by giving the cast and artificial hurdle to overcome. I'd just rather have a central protagonist so the plot will be more focused and less scattered. Besides, Dragon Ball is really bad when it comes to handling henchman. The only henchman that really left an impression was Nappa. The Red Ribbon Army got singlehandedly decimated by Goku, the Ginyu Force were fodder for Goku and Vegeta, the Cell Jrs solely existed to be killed Gohan, and Babidi's minions were forced stakes and tension incarnate.
Zarbon on Namek nearly killed Vegeta and the Ginyu Force when have murdered everyone if Goku didn’t save thier asses. Ginyu stealing Goku’s body is the primary reason Goku’s Power Level was 3 million when he faced Freeza. Freeza’s henchmen was also the reason the Namekians were on verge of death. So not sure why the Ginyu Force is fodder when Nappa did the same.

And how can you forget Tamborine from Dragon Ball who murdered Krillin and kicked started the arc?
The fact I forget about Tambourine killing Krillin kinda shows much of a lack of an impression he made. Not mention the only reason Goku loses to Tambourine in the their first encounter is because Goku used up all his energy in the 22nd WMAT. Come the second time they fight, Goku curbstomps him. It's the same deal with Zarbon. He beat ups Vegeta (who was an inconsequential character at the time that skirmish happened) after he transforms, then Vegeta just comes back and easily kills him after getting a BS powerup.
And? Goku made Nappa fodder too, so why is he special?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:09 pm

Personally, Recoome was always my favorite henchman. Always loved how flamboyant the dude was.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:35 pm

Jigurashi wrote:Personally, Recoome was always my favorite henchman. Always loved how flamboyant the dude was.
It’s Zarbon for me. He was professional and didn’t come off as an ax-crazy, sadistic like his boss. And I will always love him for beating the shit out of Vegeta after he murdered that village.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:54 pm

HeroR wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Zarbon on Namek nearly killed Vegeta and the Ginyu Force when have murdered everyone if Goku didn’t save thier asses. Ginyu stealing Goku’s body is the primary reason Goku’s Power Level was 3 million when he faced Freeza. Freeza’s henchmen was also the reason the Namekians were on verge of death. So not sure why the Ginyu Force is fodder when Nappa did the same.

And how can you forget Tamborine from Dragon Ball who murdered Krillin and kicked started the arc?
The fact I forget about Tambourine killing Krillin kinda shows much of a lack of an impression he made. Not mention the only reason Goku loses to Tambourine in the their first encounter is because Goku used up all his energy in the 22nd WMAT. Come the second time they fight, Goku curbstomps him. It's the same deal with Zarbon. He beat ups Vegeta (who was an inconsequential character at the time that skirmish happened) after he transforms, then Vegeta just comes back and easily kills him after getting a BS powerup.
And? Goku made Nappa fodder too, so why is he special?
Nappa carried a much bigger presence and propelled the plot further with his screen. He killed Piccolo, which resulted in Earth Dragon Ball being gone and kicking starting the next arc, and drove Tien and Chiaotzu to suicide. None of the Z-Fighters, before Goku arrived, could handle him. And it lead to Goku having to hurry back into battle quicker than initially expected.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:01 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Nappa carried a much bigger presence and propelled the plot further with his screen. He killed Piccolo, which resulted in Earth Dragon Ball being gone and kicking starting the next arc, and drove Tien and Chiaotzu to suicide. None of the Z-Fighters, before Goku arrived, could handle him. And it lead to Goku having to hurry back into battle quicker than initially expected.
Tambourine in Dragon Ball did almost the same thing since him killing Krillin started the entire plot and forever changed the tone of Dragon Ball. And the Ginyu Force coming to Namek is the reason Vegeta became an ally, which had the biggest impact in the series. That and Ginyu indirectly getting Goku wounded before the battle with Freeza.

Heck, Raditz was a henchman and we know what his arrival did.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:54 pm

HeroR wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Nappa carried a much bigger presence and propelled the plot further with his screen. He killed Piccolo, which resulted in Earth Dragon Ball being gone and kicking starting the next arc, and drove Tien and Chiaotzu to suicide. None of the Z-Fighters, before Goku arrived, could handle him. And it lead to Goku having to hurry back into battle quicker than initially expected.
Tambourine in Dragon Ball did almost the same thing since him killing Krillin started the entire plot and forever changed the tone of Dragon Ball. And the Ginyu Force coming to Namek is the reason Vegeta became an ally, which had the biggest impact in the series. That and Ginyu indirectly getting Goku wounded before the battle with Freeza.

Heck, Raditz was a henchman and we know what his arrival did.
The tone of Dragon Ball changed before Tambourine's arrival. Mercenary Tao was the first antagonist in Dragon Ball to actually kill a character and beat Goku clean in a battle. That really set a much darker undertone for Dragon Ball. And Goku confronting Mercenary Tao lead to him taking on the Red Ribbon Army. And Goku defeating the Red Ribbon Army created the events of the Android and Cell arc.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: The tone of Dragon Ball changed before Tambourine's arrival. Mercenary Tao was the first antagonist in Dragon Ball to actually kill a character and beat Goku clean in a battle. That really set a much darker undertone for Dragon Ball. And Goku confronting Mercenary Tao lead to him taking on the Red Ribbon Army. And Goku defeating the Red Ribbon Army created the events of the Android and Cell arc.
Tao killed a character we barely knew, compared to Krillin who was a developed character we got to know for years. And Roshi, aka Jackie Chun, beat Goku in a clean battle.

And the ties for the Red Ribbon Army and the Android/Cell Saga is so paper thin that the plot point was all but dropped in that saga since none of the androids outside of Androids 19 and 20 cared about the Red Ribbon Army.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by precita » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:34 pm

I like henchmen. Granted Babidi's henchmen were the most forgettable beyond Dabura.

Spopovich I guess get props due to his action-porn rampage against Videl though.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:06 pm

precita wrote:I like henchmen. Granted Babidi's henchmen were the most forgettable beyond Dabura.

Spopovich I guess get props due to his action-porn rampage against Videl though.
Babibi's henchmen were memorable for being laughably outclass.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Meshack » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:09 am

Ziegander wrote:Jiren has Toppo and Dyspo.
Toppo and Dyspo are not subjects to Jiren. Toppo is the leader of the Pride Troopers. Jiren is just another member like Tupper. Dyspo is actually the raiding commanding officer.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by Meshack » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:13 am

Henchmen would be nice for the future arcs. But having henchmen would kinda be a waste of time unless they’re in the more developed universes with high human levels. I think Dragon Ball is better when there is only one villain.

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Re: What happened to having henchmen?

Post by gofishus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:05 pm

Yeah, Bojack was one of my favorite movie villains. I think if there was a list of movie villains that I would like to be canon, Cooler, Broly, Janemba and Bojack would top that list, and maybe Garlic Jr.

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