Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Kinokima » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:37 am

I don’t think Kale & Caulifla are meant to be in a relationship but I also don’t see anything weird about people shipping them. While I don’t think that is what Toei is going for I can totally see why fans would see more into it.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:48 am

Let's be honest, they are basically made to be shipped. The meek insecure one paired with the outgoing older sister type who treats her better than anyone else. As I said, it's all very tropey.

Maybe it just feels like a big deal because classic Dragon Ball is so aromantic. By Toriyama's own admission he wasn't good at writing romance, and the relationships have this kind of 50s conservative quality to them. A man and a woman make eyes at each other for a bit, hint that they're falling in love (but no kissing, that's icky) and come the next time skip, the wife has settled down into the stern mother/home-maker role and they've got a house, a baby and a white picket fence.

God, imagine that happening with Kale and Caulifla? Like, the next time they show up after the tournament they're just married and have a baby. Kale is wearing a gingham sundress and demanding Caulifla stop spending all her time training and look for a job. And we laugh.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by pacz360 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:59 am

Kinokima wrote:I don’t think Kale & Caulifla are meant to be in a relationship but I also don’t see anything weird about people shipping them. While I don’t think that is what Toei is going for I can totally see why fans would see more into it.
Kataphrut wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:
It's never going to be shown as more than subtext because kids show. And because Japan. But come on. It's there. They spent half the episode fighting while holding hands, it could not be more blatant.
Holding hands equals gay!
Jesus are you serious?
Well, they're not going to start making out in the middle of the battle, that would be inefficient! They're still Saiyans after all :lol:
You're the second person to jump on my "holding hands" remark as if that was the shatterpoint upon which my entire insinuation hinged. It's just an example, there's plenty of others like it in the twenty-something episodes these characters have been around.

And I know the stuff I'm calling evidence of gay subtext is tropey as hell, but if people want to take that reading away from it, then why deny them?

This thread is about the popularity of Kale and Caulifla, but everyone has been kind of tiptoeing around the fact that having female Super Saiyans in a prominent role is good representation and a lot of female fans are finally getting it after all these years. We like to think we're above that, that talking about diversity and representation is for the Tumblr crowd. But looking over this thread, are any of the discussions about power scaling and relative screentime any less fatuous? And you know just maybe...just maybe, if we accept that having female representation is a good enough reason for a character's popularity, perhaps we can also accept that gay fans might appreciate the same courtesy?
Hey people can ship it but don't trying to be pulling the oh there gay's cause of this scene or whatever where it isn't
I can understand why people ship it but I don't see it there m8

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:41 am

I mean...

Image

How could you not love Caulifla? She's awesome. In my opinion. :P

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by gofishus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:I mean...

Image

How could you not love Caulifla? She's awesome. In my opinion. :P
Ohh I so want to play with her in the Dragonball FighterZ game thats coming out. They better be in it.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:26 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:
It's never going to be shown as more than subtext because kids show. And because Japan. But come on. It's there. They spent half the episode fighting while holding hands, it could not be more blatant.
Holding hands equals gay!
Jesus are you serious?
Well, they're not going to start making out in the middle of the battle, that would be inefficient! They're still Saiyans after all :lol:
You're the second person to jump on my "holding hands" remark as if that was the shatterpoint upon which my entire insinuation hinged. It's just an example, there's plenty of others like it in the twenty-something episodes these characters have been around.

And I know the stuff I'm calling evidence of gay subtext is tropey as hell, but if people want to take that reading away from it, then why deny them?

This thread is about the popularity of Kale and Caulifla, but everyone has been kind of tiptoeing around the fact that having female Super Saiyans in a prominent role is good representation and a lot of female fans are finally getting it after all these years. We like to think we're above that, that talking about diversity and representation is for the Tumblr crowd. But looking over this thread, are any of the discussions about power scaling and relative screentime any less fatuous? And you know just maybe...just maybe, if we accept that having female representation is a good enough reason for a character's popularity, perhaps we can also accept that gay fans might appreciate the same courtesy?
What I'm getting from your comment is because there are gay people out there who want them to be gay, then that automatically deems it so.

Again, about as legit as a tumblr fan ship. Just saying that it would do gay people a service to make them gay doesn't legitimately make them gay.

Goku and Vegeta were so deep inside each other that they became the same person. It's quite possibly gayer than anything Caulifla and Kale have ever done :lol:

But if someone likes Caulifla and Kale and thinks they're popular because they're gay, then that's a problem. You're going to like a character solely for their sexual orientation? That's just like liking them just because they're females. This is the exact problem with the "diversity" crowd. Too much focus on gender, race, and sexual orientation and not enough focus on actual character. I'm not saying every person who thinks they're gay is like this, but from what you said you're implying there are people out there who think like this.

You're free to make up your own facfiction ships in your head, just don't expect other people to believe it as truth.
Lord Beerus wrote:I mean...

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

How could you not love Caulifla? She's awesome. In my opinion. :P
I want to make this into one of those big long avatars some people have that are somehow way bigger than 100x100 but I don't know how. :(

EDIT: Nevermind. Voila!

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:36 pm

Asura wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I mean...

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

How could you not love Caulifla? She's awesome. In my opinion. :P
I want to make this into one of those big long avatars some people have that are somehow way bigger than 100x100 but I don't know how. :(

EDIT: Nevermind. Voila!
I see you've join the Caulifla camp. Welcome to the club. :thumbup:

Along with your new avatar, here's your new badge and gun. Use them wisely. :P
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:54 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Asura wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I mean...

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

How could you not love Caulifla? She's awesome. In my opinion. :P
I want to make this into one of those big long avatars some people have that are somehow way bigger than 100x100 but I don't know how. :(

EDIT: Nevermind. Voila!
I see you've join the Caulifla camp. Welcome to the club. :thumbup:

Along with you new avatar, here's your new badge and gun. Use them wisely. :P
Psshhh, I'm one of the founding members!

I wonder if Kefla (Kefla? Kafla? Which is it?) will have an impact on people's individual opinions of Caulifla and Kale. Any fusions in general are likely to increase popularity, too.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:20 pm

Asura wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Asura wrote:
I want to make this into one of those big long avatars some people have that are somehow way bigger than 100x100 but I don't know how. :(

EDIT: Nevermind. Voila!
I see you've join the Caulifla camp. Welcome to the club. :thumbup:

Along with your new avatar, here's your new badge and gun. Use them wisely. :P
Psshhh, I'm one of the founding members!

I wonder if Kefla (Kefla? Kafla? Which is it?) will have an impact on people's individual opinions of Caulifla and Kale. Any fusions in general are likely to increase popularity, too.
I don't know about Japan, but most Western fans, as least from what I've seen, really dig characters like Vegetto and Gogeta. If they handle Kafla (I refuse to call her "Kefla" because it's dumb) reasonably well in the character department, she could become an instant fan favorite. My ideal scenario would be that if after SSJB Goku defeats, she goes for broke, cranks out SSJ3, goes out in blaze of glory trying to take on SSJB Kaioken Goku and Goku just easily defeats her, while telling her, "You did well very. You pushed yourself far beyond your limit. But I'm afraid the training ends here." They got knocked out and defuse while on the sidelines.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Melab » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:26 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:…I refuse to call her "Kefla" because it's dumb…
It sounds like "teflon".

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Cetra » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Whenever I see someone write Kefla, I have to think of FFVI's Kefka. It is so weird.

Oh, and to the one who wants Kale and Caulifla to be a thing: Please stop with this overused cliché of saying "you know its true otherwise you wouldn't feel so offended by it, would you? come on, you know it. taking it a bit too personal, huh? come on, you know it." Cliché formulas to not work against everyone. And no, not everyone is "offended" because they are homophobic. Some people just do not like it when fans read some pseudo-meaning out of something and treat it as a fact. And I am no different here. If Kale and Caulifla were gay, they were gay. But as things are this is just people claiming they are and that it is "an undeniable fact" just like everything Dragon Ball a fan says for some reason is an undeniable fact. The only thing missing here is "They are gay, Toriyama said so. Btw. GT ain't cannnnon" for it to be on the same level of all those other comments. If you think of them as gay, feel free but don't try selling people something that is no factual sign reflecting the intention of showing them as lesbians.
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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Asura wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:The subtext itself is a part of the fetish, too. It gives Otaku more room to posses these characters by further fictionalizing them in side stories.
Oh of course, now it's the subtext lol. Just sounds like more layers of bullshit to me. You peel back one layer and lo and behold there's another one underneath trying to rationalize how it's totally true guys, lesbians in dragon ball!!!

You might as well open your sentences with "Okay, I know that nothing ever happened and nothing is ever shown at happening and there's proof that nothing ever will happen, but let me tell you why it's happening."

Until it's actually proven or confirmed in the show, it's about as valid as a tumblr fanship.
I didn't say that. I said even when it's not clearly defined whether or not the girls are gay Otaku are capable of fetishizing that. Ultimately it doesn't really matter so long as things are kept ambiguous.
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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by RedHeat » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:47 pm

I'm pretty sure the writters fully intend for them to be homosexual but they can't bring it fully into fruition because the show is aimed at kids and all. (Not to say there's anything overly sexual about them being in a relationship, but that moment with the cat and bird girl from U2 is the closest we'll ever get.)
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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:48 pm

RedHeat wrote:I'm pretty sure the writters fully intend for them to be homosexual but they can't bring it fully into fruition because the show is aimed at kids and all. (Not to say there's anything overly sexual about them being in a relationship, but that moment with the cat and bird girl from U2 is the closest we'll ever get.)
There are two blatantly homosexual characters in the series. The writers just intend them to be friends.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by YonedgeHP » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:50 pm

Doctor. wrote:
RedHeat wrote:I'm pretty sure the writters fully intend for them to be homosexual but they can't bring it fully into fruition because the show is aimed at kids and all. (Not to say there's anything overly sexual about them being in a relationship, but that moment with the cat and bird girl from U2 is the closest we'll ever get.)
There are two blatantly homosexual characters in the series. The writers just intend them to be friends.
One of them is if I am not mistaken pedophile, so...
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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:51 pm

YonedgeHP wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
RedHeat wrote:I'm pretty sure the writters fully intend for them to be homosexual but they can't bring it fully into fruition because the show is aimed at kids and all. (Not to say there's anything overly sexual about them being in a relationship, but that moment with the cat and bird girl from U2 is the closest we'll ever get.)
There are two blatantly homosexual characters in the series. The writers just intend them to be friends.
One of them is if I am not mistaken pedophile, so...
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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by precita » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:17 pm

I fully expect Caulifa to show interest in Kale after the tournament ends and returns her feelings. In the recent episode you can see how Caulifa was getting more and more turned on by Kale learning to fight side by side with her against Goku. It's only a matter of time now, they'll probably be the first lesbian couple in Dragonball.

Makes sense to introduce new characters as lesbians, rather than say do it with an older Pan or something. That way people have no expectations.

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Nekis13 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:21 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
I wonder if Kefla (Kefla? Kafla? Which is it?) will have an impact on people's individual opinions of Caulifla and Kale. Any fusions in general are likely to increase popularity, too.
I don't know about Japan, but most Western fans, as least from what I've seen, really dig characters like Vegetto and Gogeta. If they handle Kafla (I refuse to call her "Kefla" because it's dumb) reasonably well in the character department, she could become an instant fan favorite. My ideal scenario would be that if after SSJB Goku defeats, she goes for broke, cranks out SSJ3, goes out in blaze of glory trying to take on SSJB Kaioken Goku and Goku just easily defeats her, while telling her, "You did well very. You pushed yourself far beyond your limit. But I'm afraid the training ends here." They got knocked out and defuse while on the sidelines.[/quote]

Sadly with how mad the (I assume is vocal minority, cuz that's what Youtube comments are) fanbase is at the two for "back tingles" or whatever, there's no way they'll ever become fan favorites, at least in the western fandom. I'd like to be proved wrong though.
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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:22 pm

precita wrote:In the recent episode you can see how Caulifa was getting more and more turned on by Kale learning to fight side by side with her against Goku. It's only a matter of time now, they'll probably be the first lesbian couple in Dragonball.
I can't tell if this (or some of your other posts) is meant to be satire or if you actually think Caulifla was getting turned on by Kale fighting with her. Especially right after she just called her a friend.
Cetra wrote:Whenever I see someone write Kefla, I have to think of FFVI's Kefka. It is so weird.
I think of the same thing which is why it feels weird to write it as Kefla, but apparently that's the more accurate term? All these vegetables and their combinations are getting confusing. :crazy:

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Re: Are Caulifa and Kale popular characters? What is the general consensus?

Post by Cetra » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:26 pm

Asura wrote: I think of the same thing which is why it feels weird to write it as Kefla, but apparently that's the more accurate term? All these vegetables and their combinations are getting confusing. :crazy:
It is not really more accurate. There is no chouon in Kafla's name other than in Kale's but I have given the full post about this as a reply in your other thread. I can see why people write Kefla but it is just that Kefura can easily become Kafla as well simply because "Ke" is easily pronouncable as a short English "a" sound, depending on the person. And taking the whole "Kale, Caulifla" thing into consideration there is twice the reason to call her Kafla.
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