At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

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At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by coola » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:05 pm

For Goku and Vegeta, just say that after they achived SSJ Blue, they dont need to transform to gain SSJ1-SSJ3 power level.
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Grimlock » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:08 pm

Please provide more elaboration into your commentary. Why do you think that?
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by BWri » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:10 pm

coola wrote:For Goku and Vegeta, just say that after they achived SSJ Blue, they dont need to transform to gain SSJ1-SSJ3 power level.
I thought they would do this after Resurrection F. The idea was that with Blue they could control their ki much better, but it added more confusion to the GoD tourney arc when they added the golden SSJ forms back into it. Its too late to change it at this point since they've used it so often now.
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Asura » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:50 pm

No way! Seeing them only go SSB would be really boring, and the Super Saiyan forms are like tiers of power.

Plus the golden hair is kind of iconic to the franchise, like really iconic. People wouldn't like that being permanently replaced with a (most of the time) ugly shade of blue. I mean don't get me wrong, Super Saiyan Blue can look AWESOME with the right colors and shading, like these for example [spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

But most of the time it's just ugly and bland, like it doesn't have the shine that SSJ does.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Cabba » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:51 pm

Akira should have followed his own advice and kept only SSJ as the default SS post BoG events, SSG and SSB as the god forms

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:34 am

Asura wrote:No way! Seeing them only go SSB would be really boring, and the Super Saiyan forms are like tiers of power.

Plus the golden hair is kind of iconic to the franchise, like really iconic. People wouldn't like that being permanently replaced with a (most of the time) ugly shade of blue. I mean don't get me wrong, Super Saiyan Blue can look AWESOME with the right colors and shading, like these for example [spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

But most of the time it's just ugly and bland, like it doesn't have the shine that SSJ does.
In DBS Blue, Red and Pink completely shit on SS in terms of colours, SS forms aren't golden in DBS they're a disgusting vomit yellow colour, it is horrible look at:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Now compared to something like the Ultimate Blast OP...
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]
There is no "shine" to SS in DBS at all. For that reason I wish they would stop using those forms.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Asura » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:56 am

There's a lot of oversaturation in that Ultimate Blast picture, and I still see a lot of glow and shine in that Super picture so I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say it has no shine. There's a lot of white highlights, whereas Blue usually has darker highlights/not much highlights at all like this:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by precita » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:45 am

The sad thing is the new forms don't make battles look different. Look at the way Krillin was impressed by the power of two SSJ2's fighting....but...what? He literally just saw some Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku before...so what the hell is Super Saiyan 2 at this point?

There's literally no difference between the Saiyan form powers in a fight anymore. If Goku is SSJ or Blue...the fights look exactly the same. The characters all react to it the same way too...it's like it's meaningless. Goku brings up SSJ3...what is this form even supposed to mean at this point? He might as well go God again with the red hair.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:52 am

precita wrote:The sad thing is the new forms don't make battles look different. Look at the way Krillin was impressed by the power of two SSJ2's fighting....but...what? He literally just saw some Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku before...so what the hell is Super Saiyan 2 at this point?

There's literally no difference between the Saiyan form powers in a fight anymore. If Goku is SSJ or Blue...the fights look exactly the same. The characters all react to it the same way too...it's like it's meaningless. Goku brings up SSJ3...what is this form even supposed to mean at this point? He might as well go God again with the red hair.
TBH, the problem of "all the fights look the same" has been around since the Freeza arc and arguably even before.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by sintzu » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:03 am

That's what Toriyama might've been planning as he said he didn't think Goku would use anything other than his base and Ssj1 forms which was set up in BOG but less than a year later and not only did he go back to 2 & 3 but we also got a new form in Blue and SsjG coming back. DB's biggest $$$ maker is the Ssj forms so the chances of them going away or new ones not being made are slim to none.

We've already got 11 forms; Ssj1 (Assj & Ussj weren't forms in the manga or anime but are treated as such in games and merchandise), Ssj2, Ssj3, Ssj4, SsjG, SsjB, SsjR, Lssj & Ssj Rage. We went from 3 in the original manga to now 11 and still counting as there's no way we won't get more.

I think within the next 10 years we'll get 5 more at least if the franchise is still going.
JazzMazz wrote:TBH, the problem of "all the fights look the same" has been around since the Freeza arc and arguably even before.
Toriyama said that once the Freeza fight was over, he didn't think he could do anything bigger which is understandable as he used every card in that fight. With that said, I do think he and Toei did a great job with the fights afterwards till the end of Buu as continuing the story as long as they did after Freeza's fight must've been a hard thing to do due to how big and climactic it was.
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:11 am

sintzu wrote:That's what Toriyama might've been planning as he said he didn't think Goku would use anything other than his base and Ssj1 forms which was set up in BOG but less than a year later and not only did he go back to 2 & 3 but we also got a new form in Blue and SsjG coming back. DB's biggest $$$ maker is the Ssj forms so the chances of them going away or new ones not being made are slim to none.

We've already got 11 forms; Ssj1 (Assj & Ussj weren't forms in the manga or anime but are treated as such in games and merchandise), Ssj2, Ssj3, Ssj4, SsjG, SsjB, SsjR, Lssj & Ssj Rage. We went from 3 in the original manga to now 11 and still counting as there's no way we won't get more.

I think within the next 10 years we'll get 5 more at least if the franchise is still going.
JazzMazz wrote:TBH, the problem of "all the fights look the same" has been around since the Freeza arc and arguably even before.
Toriyama said that once the Freeza fight was over, he didn't think he could do anything bigger which is understandable as he used every card in that fight. With that said, I do think he and Toei did a great job with the fights afterwards till the end of Buu as continuing the story as long as they did after Freeza's fight must've been a hard thing to do due to how big and climactic it was.
I kind of meant it in the sense that the actually fighting and feats didn't visually change much. It just kind of remained the same, because it had to remain the same.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by coola » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:19 am

JazzMazz wrote:
sintzu wrote:That's what Toriyama might've been planning as he said he didn't think Goku would use anything other than his base and Ssj1 forms which was set up in BOG but less than a year later and not only did he go back to 2 & 3 but we also got a new form in Blue and SsjG coming back. DB's biggest $$$ maker is the Ssj forms so the chances of them going away or new ones not being made are slim to none.

We've already got 11 forms; Ssj1 (Assj & Ussj weren't forms in the manga or anime but are treated as such in games and merchandise), Ssj2, Ssj3, Ssj4, SsjG, SsjB, SsjR, Lssj & Ssj Rage. We went from 3 in the original manga to now 11 and still counting as there's no way we won't get more.

I think within the next 10 years we'll get 5 more at least if the franchise is still going.
JazzMazz wrote:TBH, the problem of "all the fights look the same" has been around since the Freeza arc and arguably even before.
Toriyama said that once the Freeza fight was over, he didn't think he could do anything bigger which is understandable as he used every card in that fight. With that said, I do think he and Toei did a great job with the fights afterwards till the end of Buu as continuing the story as long as they did after Freeza's fight must've been a hard thing to do due to how big and climactic it was.
I kind of meant it in the sense that the actually fighting and feats didn't visually change much. It just kind of remained the same, because it had to remain the same.
I think Beerus vs Champa was most accurate fight, considering their power levels, its no wonder they destroyed planets during their brawl.
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by BWri » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:41 am

Asura wrote:No way! Seeing them only go SSB would be really boring, and the Super Saiyan forms are like tiers of power.

Plus the golden hair is kind of iconic to the franchise, like really iconic. People wouldn't like that being permanently replaced with a (most of the time) ugly shade of blue. I mean don't get me wrong, Super Saiyan Blue can look AWESOME with the right colors and shading, like these for example [spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]

But most of the time it's just ugly and bland, like it doesn't have the shine that SSJ does.
I say this on my blog too, lol. I only like Blue with the aura applied, otherwise it looks like plastic taffy. (http://belartscorner.blogspot.com/2016/ ... iyama.html)
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Kastex » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:57 am

coola wrote:For Goku and Vegeta, just say that after they achived SSJ Blue, they dont need to transform to gain SSJ1-SSJ3 power level.
the ssb and ssr forms are different than the ss forms. it doesn't make sense to drop them.
they do need to transform to gain that power since there are multipliers. only gohan seems to have a state which transcends the power of his ss forms without transforming, but his hair changes a bit so perhaps it could be considered a transformation....

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by TheOne » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:13 am

precita wrote:The sad thing is the new forms don't make battles look different. Look at the way Krillin was impressed by the power of two SSJ2's fighting....but...what? He literally just saw some Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku before...so what the hell is Super Saiyan 2 at this point?

There's literally no difference between the Saiyan form powers in a fight anymore. If Goku is SSJ or Blue...the fights look exactly the same. The characters all react to it the same way too...it's like it's meaningless. Goku brings up SSJ3...what is this form even supposed to mean at this point? He might as well go God again with the red hair.
This moment literally made me cringe and roll my eyes.

I can understand them using the SSJ forms for teaching new Saiyans about it. But overall their use of SSG and SSB have been ridiculous since it premiered. If Goku trips on a fly, he turns SSB. Vegeta turned SSB when he was getting angry with the stuff going on with Bulla, even though anger is the one that triggers SSJ?

The way Super handles transformations is just terrible.
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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:49 am

Blue really wore out it's welcome through overuse. Especially in the first half of the Tournament of Power, it felt like they were bringing it out every episode despite Whis saying they were trying to limit his use of it. It's been refreshing to see Goku powered down these last couple of episodes, to the point where Super Saiyan 2 and 3 transformations actually feel like a big deal again. Speaking of, are they still going with the idea that God ki forms can't be sensed? It feels like that got quietly dropped at some point, but at the same time it's the only excuse for why Caulifla and Kale would be so blown away by 3 when they've seen in him fight in stronger forms.

The issue of transformations not changing the way fights look is why Ultra Instinct is so good. It changes the way battles look. Beforehand, the closest they'd ever got I'd say was with God in the movie where Goku and Beerus were hitting each other with very precise, impactful blows. There was a kind of grace to it, best emphasised by the way they fought through West City without causing any collateral damage. Of course both God and UI debuted in high-budget productions designed to show them off to the fullest. There's always a risk if UI ever becomes a regular thing that it will start being used in cookie cutter fights like a regular Super Saiyan form.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Duo » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:00 am

I certainly didn't expect to see Ssj 2 & Ssj3 return in the manga, so it has been a surprise both when he sparred Trunks and also when he fought Toppo. Surprisingly, this hasn't really bothered me much at all in either version. It's not like Super Saiyan 3 is winning any records for overall screen time when put against almost every other Saiyan transformation.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Meshack » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:00 am

Not having Super Saiyan would make no sense considering the insane power drawn from the form. It was established before Super, Resurrection F that the more powerful the form, the more the stamina drain is. Having Blue as the “default” Super Saiyan form wouldn’t make sense. Super Saiyan 3 was horrible to use because of the power it draws so why would you create a form on a different level than 3 have a less stamina drain.

I swear if given the chance, most fans would break the series themselves even though they complain about the work that’s already given.

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by gofishus » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:51 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
precita wrote:The sad thing is the new forms don't make battles look different. Look at the way Krillin was impressed by the power of two SSJ2's fighting....but...what? He literally just saw some Ultra Instinct Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Goku before...so what the hell is Super Saiyan 2 at this point?

There's literally no difference between the Saiyan form powers in a fight anymore. If Goku is SSJ or Blue...the fights look exactly the same. The characters all react to it the same way too...it's like it's meaningless. Goku brings up SSJ3...what is this form even supposed to mean at this point? He might as well go God again with the red hair.
TBH, the problem of "all the fights look the same" has been around since the Freeza arc and arguably even before.
Actually, Freeza vs Goku, Cell vs Goku and Kid Buu vs Goku are all three very distinct fights and there's nothing that similar between them... the techniques, choreography, etc are all different

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Re: At this point, i really would prefer if they dropped SSJ...

Post by Acetona » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:57 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Toyotaro or Toei shafted Toriyama's original intention of dropping them in favor of fan service. You know, nostalgia.
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