Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

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Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by precita » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:32 pm

Where its gotten to the point where it now feels like its being dragged out longer than it should be for no reason? Granted it's not as bad as Goku/Freeza's fight padding could be, especially since we're shifting through multiple characters here instead of just 2 characters, but it's starting to feel that way.

The mere fact that the TOP is the longest arc in Super, and might always be the longest arc, is saying a lot. We're still only halfway through it and there's bound to be 20 eps more at the rate its going due to the sheer mass of characters left.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Chuquita » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:38 pm

It's already Gokû and Freeza on Namek for me, but I've reached the acceptance phase where I'll just enjoy the parts I enjoy and endure the boring parts while waiting and hoping the next arc is announced at Jump Festa.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:59 pm

They are definitely dragging this out. They are spending too much time on the U6 saiyans imo.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:05 pm

If the second half lasts the same as the second then the last episode of the tournament should be episode 126 with another 2 episodes for the wish and Frieza.

That means we will have 13 episodes left which could be

Zirloin, Rabanra and Zarbuto ( 1 episode )
Ribrianne and Rozie ( 1 episode )
Universe 3 Robots ( 1 episode )
Dyspo ( 1 episode )
Toppo ( 1 episode )
Damom, Gamisaras and Shantsa ( 2 episodes )
Kale and Caulifla ( 2 episodes )
Saonel and Pilina ( 2 epiosdes )
Jiren ( 2 episodes )

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by snpaa » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:12 pm

yes , it's being dragged on passed the point of caring. I love how super loves to include all the elements that were bad from dragon ball z and not try revise it with modern sensibility of proper pacing and story structure but instead amplify it as if it was something that was revered .

Seriously I feel as if the arc could of been salvaged if they cut some of these episodes down and merged a few.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Bullza » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:56 pm

Not even close. Goku vs Frieza was 20 episodes of a single tedious fight which has literally became a meme for ridiculous it was.

This Tournament at least warrant it's length considering it has 80 characters involved.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Doctor. » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:57 pm

Dragged out? It's been rushed. It just doesn't feel that way because they don't allocate their screen-time well and focus too much on the same characters.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Torturephile » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:34 am

It's just a shitstorm of fights with some being neglected in favor of others. Had all fights been interesting and received an equal amount of focus, it wouldn't feel dragging.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:53 am

I for one never had any trouble with Goku vs Freeza on Namek so no problem here in terms of length for me, as I already mentioned what doesn't work here (imo) is TOP keeps on giving the spotlight to characters we don't care about, and many of the ones we care or might care about are so monolithic it's painful, also that we can't REALLY feel the stakes of universes getting erased because they have put too much stupid jokes/light parts at times.

TOP lacks the drama FTrunks arc had.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by BWri » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:14 am

precita wrote:Where its gotten to the point where it now feels like its being dragged out longer than it should be for no reason? Granted it's not as bad as Goku/Freeza's fight padding could be, especially since we're shifting through multiple characters here instead of just 2 characters, but it's starting to feel that way.

The mere fact that the TOP is the longest arc in Super, and might always be the longest arc, is saying a lot. We're still only halfway through it and there's bound to be 20 eps more at the rate its going due to the sheer mass of characters left.
It's fine. it should be long, though probably not as long. They're just not using their time right. Some stuff is being pointlessly dragged out and the emphasis is being put on the wrong characters at times. Did we really need 5 - 7 Kale and Caulifla episodes Toei? Other than that, for an 80 person battle royale with character drama, this is a good length. I think that maybe the first half should've strictly focused on the crazy explosions everywhere, group fights, and multiple fight chaos that started in episode 97 then once half the fighters were gone it should've started focusing more on characters, 1 on 1 fights, and grudges. That would've helped the pace a bit.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:15 am

I love lengthy fights and arcs. This one has been fairly short compared to some anime arcs. Things happen simultaneously that we only see after other events which gives off an impression of time not moving.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:50 am

No because these episodes are spread across multiple fights and plot points but if you mean is it dragging then yes, because most of the fighters are nobodies. Although some episodes get rid of multiple fighters at once, due to their boring nature it feels like we're not making much progress.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:10 am

sintzu wrote:No because these episodes are spread across multiple fights and plot points but if you mean is it dragging then yes, because most of the fighters are nobodies. Although some episodes get rid of multiple fighters at once, due to their boring nature it feels like we're not making much progress.
They are going extremly slow now and I think we should have the Universe 7 fighting Universe 2 and 3 while this Goku fight is happening. Toppo, Saonel and Pilina should be put on hold and 17 and 18 should be shown fighting. We know what Frieza is waiting for.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Zagacious » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:47 pm

It's being dragged on but not nearly the same way. Instead of an interesting drawn-out fight spanning multiple episodes we get a series of episodes with fodder getting eliminated for 90% of the tournament who don't show any interesting abilities or strengths but they're not eliminated immediately because holding back. Most of the characters are more insignificant than Guldo or even Jeice on Namek.. at least Ginyu, Piccolo+Nail were formidable enemies with unique attacks. Frieza was built-up showing his different transformations, while he didn't have that many unique abilities he's actually fighting and doing a lot more than Jiren was.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Torturephile » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:27 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:I for one never had any trouble with Goku vs Freeza on Namek so no problem here in terms of length for me, as I already mentioned what doesn't work here (imo) is TOP keeps on giving the spotlight to characters we don't care about, and many of the ones we care or might care about are so monolithic it's painful, also that we can't REALLY feel the stakes of universes getting erased because they have put too much stupid jokes/light parts at times.

TOP lacks the drama FTrunks arc had.
It's different for me. The future saga had too many mood whiplashes since it was dramatic at some points and comedic (generally Pilaf Gang scenes) at others within the same episode. The ToP hasn't been much of a source of comedy, specially as of late. All that it misses is characters taking the stakes more seriously and then it could be dramatic like the future saga.
From Super episode 113 thread:
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Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Acetona » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:45 pm

It was from the beginning. It started enjoyable and now is suffering, I can't stand it anymore...

EDIT: This arc is like the Thousand Years Blood War arc from BLEACH. A bunch of uninteresting fights with little to no plot that span across multiple episodes/chapters to the point it becomes unbearable.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Kinokima » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:10 pm

Well tournament arcs especially long tournament arcs like this just aren’t my thing.

I also think there are way too many characters. They can’t even keep all the Universe 7 characters active and that is a problem.

The best part of this arc for me was seeing characters team up we don’t usually see. Gohan w/ Freeza, The Androids w/ Goku, Vegeta w/ Roshi, etc. But we haven’t gotten any of that in recent episodes. And now we are getting 3 episodes of the same characters. I am not the biggest fan of that.

But as long as this arc ends by the winter I can have patience. I just hope it isn’t going to go longer than that. In the meantime I will just enjoy the moments I do. Because even though I am complaining there definitely are still plenty of moments to enjoy.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:20 pm

Acetona wrote:It was from the beginning. It started enjoyable and now is suffering, I can't stand it anymore...

EDIT: This arc is like the Thousand Years Blood War arc from BLEACH. A bunch of uninteresting fights with little to no plot that span across multiple episodes/chapters to the point it becomes unbearable.
I will say this though, TOP fights at least feel satisfying compared to the 2nd half of the Blood war. Those fights just weren't interesting and kind of fell off.
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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by Asura » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:31 pm

I swear, people's attention spans are deteriorating more and more due to the advent of technology that grants us things instantly. It makes me wonder how any of you even survived watching Dragon Ball in the past.

People wanted Super to be more like Z. Now that it's more like Z, people are complaining that it's too much like Z.

I for one am happy to have an arc with the pacing of Z again. Both the U6 arc and the FT arc felt way too rushed, especially the ending of the FT arc.

Consider the fact that some of you guys are complaining that the arc is dragging too long because you're watching it on a weekly basis and need your Dragon Ball fix as soon as possible and you want something amazing to happen every single episode and go as fast as possible so you can go onto the next arc or plot point as soon as you can. If these episodes were already released and you could binge watch them, I guarantee a large chunk of the people complaining wouldn't be complaining, but instead enjoying the fact that the arc is more fleshed out and better paced than previous ones, resulting in a more enjoyable and thought out product.

All of that being said, yes they're focusing on the wrong fights and a lot of the times the episodes don't really flow in a cohesive order. This has nothing to do with the amount of episodes though.

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Re: Is the TOP becoming like Goku Vs. Freeza on Namek?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:15 pm

I don't think it's being rushed, and although I've thoroughly enjoyed the arc thus far, I feel it lacks focus. We have all these plot points that have really gone nowhere:

-Universe 2 has both a Yardrat and a Tuffle (I don't know the exact Japanese name for the race) yet has done nothing with this information.
-Universe 3 has literally just been there, with two of their hyped up fighters getting tossed out early on
-The two bugs have yet to be introduced nor addressed.
-Toppo, a fighter who has been stated in his description and the manga to be in line for the next GoD, has done literally nothing. He's exchanged blows with Cabba then Vegeta for a bit.
-The U6 Namekians seemingly have nothing interesting about them (yet. This could change)
- #17, who was hyped up way before the tournament, got one cool fight, and has since been off on a coffee break with #18
- Frieza's up to something. But he hasn't gotten a lot of screen time since he's arguably the 3rd/debatably 2nd strongest character on the team (depends how you rank Vegeta)
-Kale, Caulifla, and Ribrianne have honestly been the stars. And while I think these characters are okay, they aren't nearly able to hold their own for a length of time. They have gotten so much development while other, far more interesting concepts are seemingly thrown to the wayside.
- Jiren. He's been built up hardcore, and while I enjoyed the special...I don't get where they're going with him. He's meditating because "no fighters left worth fighting him" are left...but he hasn't knocked out Goku, who's slowly recovering. That makes no sense.

But even with all those complaints, all the reasons I stated above are why I'm still glued to this arc. I would love a "Zeno Button" esque style where these things are addressed and come to fruition toward the end of the arc. I'm curious to what the point was of a lot of these plot devices, like bringing Frieza back, or Jameze being a Yardrat.

We have 22 minutes remaining. Who knows what will unfold.

I really just hope we don't have a repeat of the Trunks Arc, with a disappointing, unsatisfying, confusing ending.

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