Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

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Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, right?

But it seems TOEI subs are going with Kefla? Is there any official word on which it is? Kefla doesn't seem to make much sense, where does the 'e' come from?

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Asura wrote:Kefla doesn't seem to make much sense, where does the 'e' come from?
Kēru.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by YonedgeHP » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:39 pm

Asura wrote:Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, right?

But it seems TOEI subs are going with Kefla? Is there any official word on which it is? Kefla doesn't seem to make much sense, where does the 'e' come from?
Kale (ケール, Kēru) has an elongated vowel, while Kefla/Kefla (ケフラ, Kefura) does not. Besides the fusion is pronounced as Kefla, not "Kay" (like Kale does), and Toshio spelled it like that a week ago.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Asura wrote:Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, right?

But it seems TOEI subs are going with Kefla? Is there any official word on which it is? Kefla doesn't seem to make much sense, where does the 'e' come from?
Ke-chouon-ru, Ka-ri-fu-ra

Kefura

The "Ke" can be, depending on the person and pronounciation speed, pronounced like an English "Ka". (And no, I am not speeking about the kinda "Kay" sounding one that comes from the chouon). It then sounds very close to the same thing as when Germans pronounce "Kä" (so an "a" with an Umlaut). So even with "Kefura" it is very possible to pronounce "Kafla" close to "Kefura". And it would also fit Kale and Caulifla. It is just like Freeza is called "Frieza" because of "Fu-ri-chouon-za" even though Freeza reflects the pun, while "Frieza" is one of the many other ways to signalize "btw. there is a chouon in that word" (and Freeza already processes that as well as takes the intention of the pun itself into consideration which is why it is way more appropriate as it is one step ahead).
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:29 pm

Asura wrote:Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, right?

But it seems TOEI subs are going with Kefla? Is there any official word on which it is? Kefla doesn't seem to make much sense, where does the 'e' come from?
It doesn't make sense for us at all. It should be "Kafla", maybe it does kinda make sense due to Japanese pronouncement but like Herms said it's illogical.

For example, it's like spelling "Vegetto" as "Begetto" because it's pronounced "Bejitto" in Japanese so that's where the "B" in "Begetto" comes from. That's just silly isn't it? Exactly the same thing here should 100% be "Kafla".

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:18 pm

A short e sound doesn’t make the same sound as Kale (Keeru). I see no one (except the Dragon Universe Wikia) using Cauliflo. It’s the same thing. It was never stated the spellings have to be exactly the same as the fusees. Obviously not if in Japanese, they spell it as Kefura instead of Keefura. With the romanized spellings, it doesn’t seem that way either. Gokuh’s Saiyan name is officially romanized as Kacarrot, Kakarot, and Kakarrot. No one officially uses Kakarrotto or Kakarotto, not even Japanese merch, but everyone spells it as Vegetto or Vegito, not Veget or Vegett.

I like that Viz uses Cabbe over Cabba because the pronunciation is kept. When people see Cabba, they wanna say Cabbah but that’s not how to pronounce it. I believe the dub also does it that way but it’s not correct. They say Kyabe in the Japanese so it shoukd reflect that, which is Cabbe. Japanese merch use Cabbe and Viz uses Cabbe so I’m using Cabbe. We don’t call Bulma, Bulme or Bloome or whatever else.

It’s Kefla.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:34 pm

A short e sound doesn’t make the same sound as Kale (Keeru).
I hav clearly explained the difference. And yes, no matter how much people like it or not "Ke" very well can be recognized in a short English spoken "a". I have thoroughly explained that i am not talking about the "ay" that comes from the chouon and clearly differentiated both but you probably do not know the word "chouon". Anyway, even a "Ke" is easily able to reproduce an English "a" sound, depending on what we are talking about, the line between the sounds blurs. It is just not mimicing the "ay" sound of an e with a chouon followed This things happen with similiar sounds all the time and how they are imitated in Japanese. Just like a long Japanese "a" is used to imitate the "err" sound that is hidden in words like "Birth" and "Bird" and others. They have their own ways to reproduce the sounds and if people actually understand what sound is also hidden in a word when it is pronounced it is easy to understand what is why pronounced, how, etc.
They say Kyabe in the Japanese so it shoukd reflect that, which is Cabbe.
The "e" at the very end is easily recognizable as a short "a" sound instead of an unequivocal "e" of the "be", so "Cabba" for Kyabe is totally fine. That is just what the sound of words is like. Many sounds are often imitated with syllables that already contain letters that do not seem to make much sense at first glance. Even more tricky it becomes when we take into consideration that very often a sound is just like a short English "uh". Great, one more sound that somehow certainly pronounced contains other sounds like a very very short "e" or "a" in it. Beautiful. Japanese is my third language and I already speak two very different languages by speaking English and German so I know that the "hidden sounds" of letters in certain styles of pronunciation is often tricky to reflect with other syllables when recreating it in Japanese. I mean, we already pronounce words and letters differently in other languages. Trying to imitate the sounds then in something like Japanese is a very special thing then. For me though there is this feeling that makes me understand that way of how to think about it better. And now consider that this explanation alone is already tricky enough to understand because not everyone is able to understand what I try to phonetically make clear with just a few letters - then we see that there is a certain level of awareness necessary.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Grimlock » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:02 pm

Asura wrote:Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, right?
Precisely. I'm gonna call her the way a fused character is meant to be called, by the merge of the names of the fusees. Kafla, in this case.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:34 pm

Cetra wrote:
A short e sound doesn’t make the same sound as Kale (Keeru).
I hav clearly explained the difference. And yes, no matter how much people like it or not "Ke" very well can be recognized in a short English spoken "a". I have thoroughly explained that i am not talking about the "ay" that comes from the chouon and clearly differentiated both but you probably do not know the word "chouon". Anyway, even a "Ke" is easily able to reproduce an English "a" sound, depending on what we are talking about, the line between the sounds blurs. It is just not mimicing the "ay" sound of an e with a chouon followed This things happen with similiar sounds all the time and how they are imitated in Japanese. Just like a long Japanese "a" is used to imitate the "err" sound that is hidden in words like "Birth" and "Bird" and others. They have their own ways to reproduce the sounds and if people actually understand what sound is also hidden in a word when it is pronounced it is easy to understand what is why pronounced, how, etc.
They say Kyabe in the Japanese so it shoukd reflect that, which is Cabbe.
The "e" at the very end is easily recognizable as a short "a" sound instead of an unequivocal "e" of the "be", so "Cabba" for Kyabe is totally fine. That is just what the sound of words is like. Many sounds are often imitated with syllables that already contain letters that do not seem to make much sense at first glance. Even more tricky it becomes when we take into consideration that very often a sound is just like a short English "uh". Great, one more sound that somehow certainly pronounced contains other sounds like a very very short "e" or "a" in it. Beautiful. Japanese is my third language and I already speak two very different languages by speaking English and German so I know that the "hidden sounds" of letters in certain styles of pronunciation is often tricky to reflect with other syllables when recreating it in Japanese. I mean, we already pronounce words and letters differently in other languages. Trying to imitate the sounds then in something like Japanese is a very special thing then. For me though there is this feeling that makes me understand that way of how to think about it better. And now consider that this explanation alone is already tricky enough to understand because not everyone is able to understand what I try to phonetically make clear with just a few letters - then we see that there is a certain level of awareness necessary.
The main problem with Kafla and Cabba is that people would want to pronounce it as Kahfla instead of Kehfla and Cabbah instead of Cabbeh. Spellings need to reflect the pronunciation and vise versa. Kefla and Cabbe both retain the pronunciation

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:40 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Asura wrote:Kale + Caulifla = Kafla, right?

But it seems TOEI subs are going with Kefla? Is there any official word on which it is? Kefla doesn't seem to make much sense, where does the 'e' come from?
It doesn't make sense for us at all. It should be "Kafla", maybe it does kinda make sense due to Japanese pronouncement but like Herms said it's illogical.

For example, it's like spelling "Vegetto" as "Begetto" because it's pronounced "Bejitto" in Japanese so that's where the "B" in "Begetto" comes from. That's just silly isn't it? Exactly the same thing here should 100% be "Kafla".
It’s nothing like Vegetto and Begetto. Japanese can barely distinguish b’s and v’s but can distinguish short a’s long a’s short e’s and long e’s. Kale’s name is Keeru. Caulifla’s name is Karifura. Kefla’s name is Kefura. The spellings between Kale and Kefla is different and the spelling should reflect that and pronunciation.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:14 pm

Meshack wrote:A short e sound doesn’t make the same sound as Kale (Keeru). I see no one (except the Dragon Universe Wikia) using Cauliflo. It’s the same thing. It was never stated the spellings have to be exactly the same as the fusees. Obviously not if in Japanese, they spell it as Kefura instead of Keefura. With the romanized spellings, it doesn’t seem that way either. Gokuh’s Saiyan name is officially romanized as Kacarrot, Kakarot, and Kakarrot. No one officially uses Kakarrotto or Kakarotto, not even Japanese merch, but everyone spells it as Vegetto or Vegito, not Veget or Vegett.

I like that Viz uses Cabbe over Cabba because the pronunciation is kept. When people see Cabba, they wanna say Cabbah but that’s not how to pronounce it. I believe the dub also does it that way but it’s not correct. They say Kyabe in the Japanese so it shoukd reflect that, which is Cabbe. Japanese merch use Cabbe and Viz uses Cabbe so I’m using Cabbe. We don’t call Bulma, Bulme or Bloome or whatever else.

It’s Kefla.
I don't understand, it seems like you just spent two paragraphs describing why the way a name is pronounced isn't always how it's spelled, such as Kakarrot instead of Kakarotto, so how did you arrive at the conclusion being Kefla instead of Kafla?

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:40 pm

Asura wrote:
Meshack wrote:A short e sound doesn’t make the same sound as Kale (Keeru). I see no one (except the Dragon Universe Wikia) using Cauliflo. It’s the same thing. It was never stated the spellings have to be exactly the same as the fusees. Obviously not if in Japanese, they spell it as Kefura instead of Keefura. With the romanized spellings, it doesn’t seem that way either. Gokuh’s Saiyan name is officially romanized as Kacarrot, Kakarot, and Kakarrot. No one officially uses Kakarrotto or Kakarotto, not even Japanese merch, but everyone spells it as Vegetto or Vegito, not Veget or Vegett.

I like that Viz uses Cabbe over Cabba because the pronunciation is kept. When people see Cabba, they wanna say Cabbah but that’s not how to pronounce it. I believe the dub also does it that way but it’s not correct. They say Kyabe in the Japanese so it shoukd reflect that, which is Cabbe. Japanese merch use Cabbe and Viz uses Cabbe so I’m using Cabbe. We don’t call Bulma, Bulme or Bloome or whatever else.

It’s Kefla.
I don't understand, it seems like you just spent two paragraphs describing why the way a name is pronounced isn't always how it's spelled, such as Kakarrot instead of Kakarotto, so how did you arrive at the conclusion being Kefla instead of Kafla?
Pronunciation. When you look at Kafla, you wanna say Kah-fla and not Keh-fla. It’s the same thing between Cabbe/Cabba.

I wish peopke would use official spellings over coming up with their own like Kayfla, Kalefla, Kaefla, or anything else.

Btw, I don’t use Kakarrot but Kacarrot

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Meshack wrote:
Asura wrote:
Meshack wrote:A short e sound doesn’t make the same sound as Kale (Keeru). I see no one (except the Dragon Universe Wikia) using Cauliflo. It’s the same thing. It was never stated the spellings have to be exactly the same as the fusees. Obviously not if in Japanese, they spell it as Kefura instead of Keefura. With the romanized spellings, it doesn’t seem that way either. Gokuh’s Saiyan name is officially romanized as Kacarrot, Kakarot, and Kakarrot. No one officially uses Kakarrotto or Kakarotto, not even Japanese merch, but everyone spells it as Vegetto or Vegito, not Veget or Vegett.

I like that Viz uses Cabbe over Cabba because the pronunciation is kept. When people see Cabba, they wanna say Cabbah but that’s not how to pronounce it. I believe the dub also does it that way but it’s not correct. They say Kyabe in the Japanese so it shoukd reflect that, which is Cabbe. Japanese merch use Cabbe and Viz uses Cabbe so I’m using Cabbe. We don’t call Bulma, Bulme or Bloome or whatever else.

It’s Kefla.
I don't understand, it seems like you just spent two paragraphs describing why the way a name is pronounced isn't always how it's spelled, such as Kakarrot instead of Kakarotto, so how did you arrive at the conclusion being Kefla instead of Kafla?
Pronunciation. When you look at Kafla, you wanna say Kah-fla and not Keh-fla. It’s the same thing between Cabbe/Cabba.

I wish peopke would use official spellings over coming up with their own like Kayfla, Kalefla, Kaefla, or anything else.

Btw, I don’t use Kakarrot but Kacarrot
Oh, okay I see. I must have been tired since I thought I heard her pronounce it as "Kafla" but looking at it again she very clearly says "Kefla".

Cabba sounds much more ambiguous though, I can hear it as both Cabba and Cabbe, but more-so Cabba I feel like.

Kacarrot huh? Reminds me of Kakacarrotcakecarmenelectra.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:25 pm

It's a side-effect of the names not translating particularly well from Japense to English spelling. I'm guessing the dub will keep the Kefla spelling, but go with the pronunciation Kay-fla. Most people are pronouncing it like "keff-la," because that's what it reads like.

This would've been so much easier if they'd called her Caulifale. But that sounds more like a name for the botched fusion dance version :lol:

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:45 pm

Asura wrote:
Meshack wrote:
Asura wrote:
I don't understand, it seems like you just spent two paragraphs describing why the way a name is pronounced isn't always how it's spelled, such as Kakarrot instead of Kakarotto, so how did you arrive at the conclusion being Kefla instead of Kafla?
Pronunciation. When you look at Kafla, you wanna say Kah-fla and not Keh-fla. It’s the same thing between Cabbe/Cabba.

I wish peopke would use official spellings over coming up with their own like Kayfla, Kalefla, Kaefla, or anything else.

Btw, I don’t use Kakarrot but Kacarrot
Oh, okay I see. I must have been tired since I thought I heard her pronounce it as "Kafla" but looking at it again she very clearly says "Kefla".

Cabba sounds much more ambiguous though, I can hear it as both Cabba and Cabbe, but more-so Cabba I feel like.

Kacarrot huh? Reminds me of Kakacarrotcakecarmenelectra.
His name in Japanese is said as Kyabe, coming from Cabbage (Kyabetsu). Yet we do say cabbage as cabbehge, Cabba gives off the spelling as Cabbah despite being said as Cabbe.

Kacarrot comes from this: https://www.suruga-ya.jp/database/pics/ ... 024160.jpg It is the only time I found the spelling on Japanese merch

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:49 pm

Kataphrut wrote:It's a side-effect of the names not translating particularly well from Japense to English spelling. I'm guessing the dub will keep the Kefla spelling, but go with the pronunciation Kay-fla. Most people are pronouncing it like "keff-la," because that's what it reads like.

This would've been so much easier if they'd called her Caulifale. But that sounds more like a name for the botched fusion dance version :lol:
I hope from now on that all of the official spellings for
the new characters are consistent. It seems somewhat consistent so far

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Zillamon51 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:34 am

The subs say Kefla. Case closed, regardless if you think something else might be better. You don't own the character. Toei does.

If the official English version eventually changes this, then adapt. Again, Funi owns the license, it's their prerogative, not yours.

This is the only fandom I know of that makes up their own names for things. It's puzzling, like if a subset of fans of other franchises insisted on using "Batmon" or "Dark Bader" because of some obscure minutiae.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:19 pm

The subs say Kefla. Case closed, regardless if you think something else might be better. You don't own the character. Toei does.

If the official English version eventually changes this, then adapt. Again, Funi owns the license, it's their prerogative, not yours.

This is the only fandom I know of that makes up their own names for things. It's puzzling, like if a subset of fans of other franchises insisted on using "Batmon" or "Dark Bader" because of some obscure minutiae.
That makes no sense because subtitles do not mean "we are Toei and want that as the actual name". The subs are full of other things that contradict that.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:24 pm

Zillamon51 wrote:The subs say Kefla. Case closed, regardless if you think something else might be better. You don't own the character. Toei does.

If the official English version eventually changes this, then adapt. Again, Funi owns the license, it's their prerogative, not yours.

This is the only fandom I know of that makes up their own names for things. It's puzzling, like if a subset of fans of other franchises insisted on using "Batmon" or "Dark Bader" because of some obscure minutiae.
I live in the United States. There are situations where — in my own country with my own alphabet — Toei, Viz, and FUNimation give me three completely different spellings for the same characters (and with FUNimation, sometimes two different spellings from the same company, because of their English dub and their official subtitle translations). All of these spellings are official. All of these spellings are sanctioned.

So. Which do you use? Why?

This isn't a particularly difficult brain exercise, and is something that has been a part of this country's fandom for over two decades now. I understand that if you're new to the game and haven't been exposed to this type of stuff before, it can be a little difficult. However, step back and actually give it some thought, consider who all the major players are and just now ridiculous it can get with so many cooks in kitchen, and you might be able to understand a little more.

Meshack, for your own sake and for the sake of those looking for accurate information, I would to advise you to refrain from attempting to answer transliteration and pronunciation questions, as you have proven in the past to have limited understanding of these systems.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:25 pm

Meshack wrote: The main problem with Kafla and Cabba is that people would want to pronounce it as Kahfla instead of Kehfla and Cabbah instead of Cabbeh. Spellings need to reflect the pronunciation and vise versa. Kefla and Cabbe both retain the pronunciation
How do you come to that conclusion? Kakarott, in English, completely without people knowing about the katakana Ka-ka-ro-tsu-to is still pronounced by many people as "Käkärott" just because that's how many people pronounce a short a in English. So while other than in "Kefura" there is no "ke"-katakana the result of seeing an "a" people wanting to pronounce it like a "kä" is still the same. I have never seen people saying "oh, the English a definitely needs to be an "ah"". So I see no reason why people would not want to pronounce Kefura's Kafla as Käfla which also reflects the "ke" sound. So it DOES reflect it because it does not matter if some people read it as "ah" but only that the letters themselves hsve the possibility of being read like that. Which they have. I would agree that the pronounciation is different if xyz were true. I am that neurotically nitpicky. It is just that multiple ways of writing here can lead to the same pronounciation. And the "this reflects that" - as said, "Kafla" reflects BOTH the name mix as well as the possible short a sounding like a short e pronounciation.
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