Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:23 pm

Cetra wrote:
Meshack wrote: The main problem with Kafla and Cabba is that people would want to pronounce it as Kahfla instead of Kehfla and Cabbah instead of Cabbeh. Spellings need to reflect the pronunciation and vise versa. Kefla and Cabbe both retain the pronunciation
How do you come to that conclusion? Kakarott, in English, completely without people knowing about the katakana Ka-ka-ro-tsu-to is still pronounced by many people as "Käkärott" just because that's how many people pronounce a short a in English. So while other than in "Kefura" there is no "ke"-katakana the result of seeing an "a" people wanting to pronounce it like a "kä" is still the same. I have never seen people saying "oh, the English a definitely needs to be an "ah"". So I see no reason why people would not want to pronounce Kefura's Kafla as Käfla which also reflects the "ke" sound. So it DOES reflect it because it does not matter if some people read it as "ah" but only that the letters themselves hsve the possibility of being read like that. Which they have. I would agree that the pronounciation is different if xyz were true. I am that neurotically nitpicky. It is just that multiple ways of writing here can lead to the same pronounciation. And the "this reflects that" - as said, "Kafla" reflects BOTH the name mix as well as the possible short a sounding like a short e pronounciation.
So his name is Freeze? Awesome. Her name is Cauliflo? Awesome. I like your style

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:13 pm

Meshack wrote: So his name is Freeze? Awesome. Her name is Cauliflo? Awesome. I like your style
You did not understand it at all or you are a troll. And I don't know what the greater waste of time is.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:33 pm

Cetra wrote:
Meshack wrote: So his name is Freeze? Awesome. Her name is Cauliflo? Awesome. I like your style
You did not understand it at all or you are a troll. And I don't know what the greater waste of time is.
At first I didn’t want to read your essay but Kefla is better for pronunciation. It may reflect it or whatever but Kefla is not an English word. Kefura doesn’t use Keefura like in Keeru so there’s no point in keeping it the same.

The only reason I would use Kafla is if Japanese merchandise use it but I doubt it like I did with Toei using Kafla over Kefla. It’s official so everyone please use Kefla please unless they change it later

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:41 pm

At first I didn’t want to read your essay but Kefla is better for pronunciation. It may reflect it or whatever but Kefla is not an English word. Kefura doesn’t use Keefura like in Keeru so there’s no point in keeping it the same.

The only reason I would use Kafla is if Japanese merchandise use it but I doubt it like I did with Toei using Kafla over Kefla. It’s official so everyone please use Kefla please unless they change it later
What you "want" or not does not matter in the slightest. On the contrary. It just shows you are in for polemical behaviour and not for an actual argument. Also one paragraph is far from an essay. And no, Kefla is not better for pronunciation. You have virtually no reason for that. Especially as - if you are a native speaker - you should know that it is easy as pie for someone speaking English to think of a "Kä" sound when seeing a "Ka" and not just with a "Ke". Hell, I am no native speaker but speak English almost the entire time so I also see that. If you would understand a thing about the whole "better reflecting" thing that you are posting about sometimes then you would understand that the most truthful reflection is the one that reflects the sum of contexts the best to decode something as accurate as possible. Kefla is a legitimate spelling but it is not the most truthful one in English. Kafla reflects the possible English pronunciation AND name mix in English. Hence is is the one that comes the closest. And that is what it is all about.

You have already been told to stop by the admin himself. I do not know why you insist on continuing.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:36 pm

Cetra wrote:
At first I didn’t want to read your essay but Kefla is better for pronunciation. It may reflect it or whatever but Kefla is not an English word. Kefura doesn’t use Keefura like in Keeru so there’s no point in keeping it the same.

The only reason I would use Kafla is if Japanese merchandise use it but I doubt it like I did with Toei using Kafla over Kefla. It’s official so everyone please use Kefla please unless they change it later
What you "want" or not does not matter in the slightest. On the contrary. It just shows you are in for polemical behaviour and not for an actual argument. Also one paragraph is far from an essay. And no, Kefla is not better for pronunciation. You have virtually no reason for that. Especially as - if you are a native speaker - you should know that it is easy as pie for someone speaking English to think of a "Kä" sound when seeing a "Ka" and not just with a "Ke". Hell, I am no native speaker but speak English almost the entire time so I also see that. If you would understand a thing about the whole "better reflecting" thing that you are posting about sometimes then you would understand that the most truthful reflection is the one that reflects the sum of contexts the best to decode something as accurate as possible. Kefla is a legitimate spelling but it is not the most truthful one in English. Kafla reflects the possible English pronunciation AND name mix in English. Hence is is the one that comes the closest. And that is what it is all about.

You have already been told to stop by the admin himself. I do not know why you insist on continuing.
You’re actually right. I was pulling your strings. I didn’t say what I wanted mattered. I still got what I wanted when the subs used Kefla.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:41 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Meshack, for your own sake and for the sake of those looking for accurate information, I would to advise you to refrain from attempting to answer transliteration and pronunciation questions, as you have proven in the past to have limited understanding of these systems.
That’s the past though

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Quebaz » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:08 pm

Meshack wrote: So his name is Freeze? Awesome. Her name is Cauliflo? Awesome. I like your style
Wouldn't Freeze be フリース (Furiisu)?
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Meshack wrote: You’re actually right. I was pulling your strings. I didn’t say what I wanted mattered. I still got what I wanted when the subs used Kefla.
It is incredible what a ridiculous show you are making. Is that your intention? "I was pulling your strings". Virtually every post that you write shows that you do not even read and/or understand the one you are replying to. Otherwise you would not have use that "wanted" segment for something that it was not meant for. Let me tell you something here: You are not pulling anyone's strings. Trying to provoke someone that flat out can counter out everything you say while you only can ignore it or misread it is so far from that. It is sad that a stranger has to tell you but you are behaving like 95% of people on the internet. And that is not pulling anyone's strings because it is predictable. I am merely responding to some people because some people are actually capable of some reasoning. But if you are not even able or ready to read at least your conversation partner's posts properly you are not one of them. And no, what Mike said is nothing of the past. You still have not understood the system and proper decoding.

EDIT: Reported for polemical behaviour.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:17 pm

Quebaz wrote:
Meshack wrote: So his name is Freeze? Awesome. Her name is Cauliflo? Awesome. I like your style
Wouldn't Freeze be フリース (Furiisu)?
I was trying to give off the FREE-ZEH pronunciation but wasn’t being too creative. I guess to an English speaker it gives off the FREE-ZE pronunciation right off the bat

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Ajay » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:22 pm

Going to repost this and ask that you both move on.
VegettoEX wrote: Meshack, for your own sake and for the sake of those looking for accurate information, I would to advise you to refrain from attempting to answer transliteration and pronunciation questions, as you have proven in the past to have limited understanding of these systems.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Asura » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:29 pm

After reading all of this, I am now more confused about the spelling than I was before I made this thread. :crazy:

Ignoring spelling for a sec though, it's pronounced Keh-fluh, right? At least that's what I heard when I watched it a second time around.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:35 pm

Asura wrote:After reading all of this, I am now more confused about the spelling than I was before I made this thread. :crazy:

Ignoring spelling for a sec though, it's pronounced Keh-fluh, right? At least that's what I heard when I watched it a second time around.
Yeah. That’s how you pronounce it.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:37 pm

But really there’s no questioning it. To answer the title, the official spelling is Kefla and it won’t change (at least for the subs.)

I never claimed to know everything about romanization but I sorta have an idea that’s enough to grasp, so yes, Begetto. My understanding is limited.

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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Quebaz » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:45 pm

Asura wrote:After reading all of this, I am now more confused about the spelling than I was before I made this thread. :crazy:

Ignoring spelling for a sec though, it's pronounced Keh-fluh, right? At least that's what I heard when I watched it a second time around.
It's pronounced the same way you pronounce the Ka in Kale, basically.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Quebaz wrote:
Asura wrote:After reading all of this, I am now more confused about the spelling than I was before I made this thread. :crazy:

Ignoring spelling for a sec though, it's pronounced Keh-fluh, right? At least that's what I heard when I watched it a second time around.
It's pronounced the same way you pronounce the Ka in Kale, basically.
No, that is too long. One comes from the chouon. The other one has no chouon.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Quebaz » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:00 pm

Cetra wrote: No, that is too long. One comes from the chouon. The other one has no chouon.
Does it matter when that's not a factor in English? The character is written as Kale pronounced like the English word for the vegetable, since you're just picking the Ka apart for Kafla, why would you pronounce differently in English?
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Anime Kitten » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:02 pm

In advance, I know very little about the Japanese language, so forgive me and let me know if this ends up being totally wrong. But here's the way I see it.

We have keeru and karifura that are clearly taken from the English words kale and cauliflower, so they are spelled in English (as opposed to Japanese romanization or whatever the term is) as kale and caulifla respectively. When these characters fuse, their names combine like any other fusion (Gotenks, Vegetto, Gogeta). In this case, we get ke from keeru and fura from karifura and end up with kefura. Going back to how these names clearly come from words in the English language, we would take ka (the equivalent to ke) from kale and fla (the equivalent to fura) from caulifla to get kafla. The ka portion should be pronounced the same way as in the English word kale, though perhaps we would shorten it from "kay" to "keh" as is a bit of a tendency of English speakers (and to compensate for the lack of the elongation in Japanese there).

tl;dr To be consistent with the English shtick of Kale and Caulifla, we should spell it Kafla and pronounce it as a combination of the names ("kay-fla" or "keh-fla").
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Cetra » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:13 pm

Quebaz wrote:
Cetra wrote: No, that is too long. One comes from the chouon. The other one has no chouon.
Does it matter when that's not a factor in English? The character is written as Kale pronounced like the English word for the vegetable, since you're just picking the Ka apart for Kafla, why would you pronounce differently in English?
Actually it does. Kale's pronunciation in Japanese also comes from the awareness of the English word "Kale" which is why the chouon is added to mimic that sound as good as it can. If they wanted to they could have added a chouon to Kafla's name as well for a "more Kayfla"-ish pronunciation. But I see where you're coming from. Anyway, I think I have written a lot about it already here that the writing itself still is possible as Kafla, just with a shorter a sound that is often similiar to a short e sound.
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Meshack » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:17 pm

How is Vegetto a combination of Vegeta and Kacarrot? Neither Vegeta and Kacarrot have the -to attached to their names. I only see Vegeta’s name really from Vegetto. I would be fine with Kafla if it was Keefura but it’s Kefura which is different in both English and Japanese. It’s no longer kale. ケル doesn’t give you kale at all. Kefla is a short a. Kale is a long a. Yes it’s a combination of Kale and Caulifla but the Japanese has ke instead of ke-e

Between Gogeta, Gotenks, and Vegetto, and other fusions, the names have been relatively the same in Japanese. Gogeta (Gojīta) = Gokuh (Gokū) + Vegeta (Bejīta) Gotenks (Gotenkusu) = Goten (Goten) + Trunks (Torankusu) Vegetto (Bejītto) = Vegeta (Bejīta) + Kacarrot (Kakarotto) Pililin (Piririn) = Kulilin (Kuririn) + Piccolo (Pikkoro) Gotan (Gotan) = Gokuh (Gokū) + Satan (Satan)
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Re: Kefla? Kafla? Is it too early to be asking what the official spelling is?

Post by Kinokima » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:23 pm

I am going with Kefla because that is what Toshio uses. I may change my mind later.

Japanese into English spelling is always confusing and there are always a million variations so I don’t really think it’s a big deal which spelling you choose.

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