Tournament of Power is a major let down

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GohanRogers
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Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by GohanRogers » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:31 pm

I don't wanna sound like a DBSuper hater (although I definitely don't like it as much as I like Z), but so far, to me, the Tournament of Power is by far the worst saga of the DB franchise, here is why:

1 - It doesn't feel like a Battle Royale
When it was said the ToP would be a Battle Royale with 80 fighters in it, I was expecting there were going to be scenes when a fighter interrupts the battle of other fighters like "RandomFighter is fighting RandomFighter2 and it's winning but, in the middle of the battle, when RandomFighter is about to give the final blow to RandomFighter2, RandomFighter3 joins the fight and knocks RandomFighter out and continue the battle with RandomFighter2" or "RandomFighter is fighting RandomFighter2 when suddenly a ki blast which came from RandomFighter8 hits him and then RandomFighter2 knocks him out", get it? You know, scenes that show that the battles are all connected and everything can happen during a fight. Instead, we get almost only 1v1 battles and it seems like time is frozen for the other fighters during these battles.

2 - Characters absent for 345135135 episodes until they finally appear again
When was the last time you saw Dyspo? When was the last time we saw Freeza after he betrays Frost (until the recent episode of course)? When was the last time you saw other characters besides Goku fighting or doing anything useful? In the Tournament of Power, you either get an episode entirely dedicated to a character or they are absent for 10 episodes, with maybe a little random speech here and there but doing literally nothing. This kills not only the pacing, but the feel of the battle royale.

3 - It doesn't feel like the survival of universes are at stake.

With the universes at stake, you would think that the characters would be frightened and desesperate to win, not smiling and having fun like almost everyone is or seems to be. The writers are doing a terrible job at portraying the stakes of the ToP, making it seem this is just a random tournament and everything will be ok after it's over. There is just no tension, and part of this problem is what I will adress on the next topic.

4 - Powerscaling is a mess, killing all the tension and logic
Yes, I know, power levels are bullshit. But this is not about how numerically strong is character A, but about who is stronger than who and by how much. One clear example of this is Vegeta vs Ribrianne. In a few episodes ago, SSJ Vegeta was fighting against her and it was an even battle (Vegeta was having the edge on her, but overrall they were matched). Now we see Base Vegeta deflecting her like she was nothing. SSJKKx20 Goku didn't even scratch Jiren, however, Hit, who stalemated SSJB Goku, was able to punch Jiren and fight against him just fine. Then, we have Caulifla and Kale vs Goku. SSJB Goku was having trouble against Berserker Kale in the beginning of the Tournament, however, in the last episode, SSJ2 Goku was having the edge on SSJ2 Caulifla and LSSJ Kale. Then, he turns SSJ God and Kale and Caulifla are still able to put up a fight. And I'm not even going to talk about how Base Cabba, Base Caulifla and Base Kale are on par with Base Vegeta and Base Goku (who spent their entire life training, received Whis training and who casually trains in the ROSAT). Powerscaling is import to create tension, and DBS is super inconsistent with it (sorry for the pun). If I don't know who is stronger then who and by how much, how can I feel worried about these characters if they can randomly be much stronger than who they are facing? So far, the only certain thing is that Jiren is the most powerful in the tournament, and I'm not even sure about that. Consistency is important to create drama and tension, and this arc has none of it.

5 - No character build up and no backstory for any new fighter

I know, developing 80 fighters with a solid backstory would be impossible, but Toei is just throwing random designed characters to be punching bags for (mainly) Goku and Vegeta. Only the U6 and U7 characters are being developed, Toei should have at least somewhat developed some Pride Troopers or showed the backstory for each universe, but no, they are just eliminated easily by U6 and U7 and we hear nothing about them. And it makes me sad that out of 8 universes, only U6, U7 and U11 have a powerhouse character(s). I think at least each universe should have their own Jiren/Goku based on the "theme" of its universe, it would make things much more interesting to me.


Well, that's it. I really wanted to like this arc and I thought it had potential, but Toei just ruined it for me. Thanks for reading everything and sorry for any spelling or grammar errors, english is not my first language.
Last edited by GohanRogers on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Lapislettuce
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by Lapislettuce » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:51 pm

You make great points that i definitely agree with. the arc will end till march from what i've heard so there might be more to it then just this tournament.

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Zagacious
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by Zagacious » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:53 pm

The main problems as you somewhat mentioned is that the fighters are far too weak, bad matchups, and the lack of actual battle royale dynamics. The lack of tension is rather annoying as well at times.

Most of the fighters from other universes are far too weak to matter, to the point that some of U7s medium level fighters like Android 17 or Gohan could solo 90% of them. This is entirely to blame on the writing as we have 8 universes they can make up literally any reason to make strong people. This isn't an Earth tournament where it makes sense for most of them to be fodder.

The first point is made even worse by placing people against matchups they have no chance of winning like goku and vegeta vs trio de dangers. Trio de dangers universe has ton of epic potential fights we'll never see.

The lack of actual battle royale mechanics makes it pointless to be a battle royale majority of the time. A lot of times fighters will interrupt fights for a few seconds but then they go away, making it not even a factor that their fight got interrupted so it's basically just 1v1 battles. The beginning of the tournament has more battle royale stuff but they quickly stopped doing that.

One thing that could save the battle royale idea is if the remaining U7 has to work together to defeat Jiren, so it actually mattered in any way, but i seriously doubt they'll do that.
Last edited by Zagacious on Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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sintzu
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by sintzu » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:00 pm

In terms of the anime, yes. it's not only the most disappointing arc in Super but the franchise as a whole. When the dub started around the Trunks arc I was really excited for Funi's home releases but this arc has killed all hype I had for buying it. It doesn't help that this arc has been going on forever.

The manga on the other hand has been great so far so I have high hopes that it'll also give us a good tournament.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

GohanRogers
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by GohanRogers » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:11 pm

sintzu wrote:In terms of the anime, yes. it's not only the most disappointing arc in Super but the franchise as a whole. When the dub started around the Trunks arc I was really excited for Funi's home releases but this arc has killed all hype I had for buying it. It doesn't help that this arc has been going on forever.

The manga on the other hand has been great so far so I have high hopes that it'll also give us a good tournament.

I agree 100% with you. All of my hopes for this arc to be great lies in the manga, that btw have been really nice so far and I'm enjoying it a lot.

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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:30 pm

Yeah this arc is becoming a huge disappointment. I wish it would pick up pace and just finish. ANother 4 months of this crap is gonna be awful

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amuroray
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by amuroray » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:33 pm

Great post.

Its the most disappointing arc ever in db history. I cant wait for it to end.

The special was really good though

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TheMikado
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by TheMikado » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:45 pm

I'm the last one to talk, but its not over yet. Lets see how it all plays out.

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RedHeat
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by RedHeat » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:48 pm

When is it gonna be the straw that breaks the camels back?
Feels over Reals.

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TheMikado
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by TheMikado » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:50 pm

RedHeat wrote:When is it gonna be the straw that breaks the camels back?
Mines already broken. I had decided going into this that this will be my last arc of Super. So basically if it doesn't end how I think it should I won't care either way because I wont be invested beyond this arc regardless.

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sintzu
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by sintzu » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:52 pm

amuroray wrote:The special was really good though
Whatever weight it held has been flushed now that Goku needs UI to beat Kafla. Less than a month after, she is now on the level of the 2 fighters that single handedly caused everyone, including the destroyers to stop what they were doing and watch them with their jaws hanging open. If that isn't enough to ruin the entire are then I don't know what will.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by precita » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:54 pm

My only problem with it is making Goku and to a lesser extent Vegeta the focus of all the fights.

Why on earth are Gohan and Piccolo not getting more focus? Why have 17 and 18 been in the background for most of it? Krillin also should have lasted longer and Tien just barely did much.

What was the point of bringing back the extended cast if it's all focused on Goku and Vegeta again?

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amuroray
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by amuroray » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:01 pm

sintzu wrote:
amuroray wrote:The special was really good though
Whatever weight it held has been flushed now that Goku needs UI to beat Kafla. Less than a month after, she is now on the level of the 2 fighters that single handedly caused everyone, including the destroyers to stop what they were doing and watch them with their jaws hanging open. If that isn't enough to ruin the entire are then I don't know what will.
Great point. Those girls are plot destroying. Dont know why toei are doing this, is the money upside that great from these 2?

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MaskedRider
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by MaskedRider » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:03 pm

I wouldn't call it a let down but it certainly is underwhelming.

I adore how this tournament began, we saw fighters running, fighters scurrying to attack another and hands being thrown up to execute techniques with colorful explosions lit the ring but as soon time passes it became stagnant and right now it...honestly makes sense for it to be this way. The less fighters we have the less of that we are going to receive. Look at the most up to date chart to see whose in and whose out, it is literally impossible to capture that spirit again unless all the fighters start to say "screw teams!".

I don't know about y'all but going back to re-watch the tournament episodes has certainly helped my view on it as a whole instead of thinking about it as each individual episode. Episodes like 100 or 106 certainly won't approve by that but its much better knowing that the episodes after are so much better than having to wait a week and let a bad episode hinder my judgement to what is coming next.

Also in regards to merchandise and the girls. These characters were made LONG before anything, the episodes are made LONG before anything. You can't just change six months of work just because "lul money."

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sintzu
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by sintzu » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:05 pm

precita wrote:My only problem with it is making Goku and to a lesser extent Vegeta the focus of all the fights.

What was the point of bringing back the extended cast if it's all focused on Goku and Vegeta again?
Vegeta's been fighting in this arc ? Apart from the slight fight he had with U9 all the way back in the beginning, he's done nothing but have small shots here and there.
amuroray wrote:Dont know why toei are doing this, is the money upside that great from these 2?
That's the only reason they'd put this much time and effort into them. If not that then surely they have high expectations of them making lots of $$$ in the future. If we get a Sadal arc then you can be sure they'll be front and center of that.
MaskedRider wrote:Also in regards to merchandise and the girls. These characters were made LONG before anything, the episodes are made LONG before anything. You can't just change six months of work just because "lul money."
They're made based on the expectations of them selling well.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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MaskedRider
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by MaskedRider » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:13 pm

sintzu wrote:They're made based on the expectations of them selling well.
I'm no business major but that sounds like a poor decision. How do they know they will sell well if they have no exposure to how they sell in the first place? I guess you can look back to previous merchandise related to female and saiyan but still. I'm just annoyed at how everything in this show has to be a merchandise decision to everyone. Freeza returning was literally Toriyama listening to F by Maximum the Hormone when worried on what he should write movie 15 about and going "AHA!". Sometimes its as dumb as that.

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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by Miracles » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:18 pm

It is a letdown. There is too many still scenes with people standing around, the fights don't even seem serious most of the time and the characters do not have that do or die mentality with a sense of urgency. This killed a lot of tension and despair of what this free for all was suppose to bring.

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sintzu
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by sintzu » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:20 pm

MaskedRider wrote:I'm no business major but that sounds like a poor decision. How do they know they will sell well if they have no exposure to how they sell in the first place? I guess you can look back to previous merchandise related to female and saiyan but still.
That's exactly what they do. They know Saiyans are popular, they know there was a demand for female Saiyans, they know Broly is popular so they gave Kale that form & they know fusion is popular.

It's like with anything, they do research based on the market and people's tastes to decide what to put into production and sell.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:23 pm

I 100% agree! This is the WORST arc of Dragon Ball Super (and maybe Dragon Ball as a whole even) so far!

It's unneccesarily long, forced, filled with bullshit, and overall, just not interesting or serious. Compare this to the previous arc and it's absolutely worlds apart!
“The fool looks to God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

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MaskedRider
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Re: Tournament of Power is a major let down

Post by MaskedRider » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:25 pm

sintzu wrote:
MaskedRider wrote:I'm no business major but that sounds like a poor decision. How do they know they will sell well if they have no exposure to how they sell in the first place? I guess you can look back to previous merchandise related to female and saiyan but still.
That's exactly what they do. They know Saiyans are popular, they know there was a demand for female Saiyans, they know Broly is popular so they gave Kale that form & they know fusion is popular.

It's like with anything, they do research based on the market and people's tastes to decide what to put into production and sell.
That's fair, I don't know how big the demand was for female Saiyans, I'm aware of the interest but I didn't know how popular it was. I always chalked up Kale as being Toriyama's humor with "tiny girl now big and muscly"

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