I think feminism is the reason for the overpowered female characters

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I think feminism is the reason for the overpowered female characters

Post by gohan_black » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:02 am

What i think toei is doing with kale and cauliflia and also with ribrianne is to gain the female audience. Dragon ball was allwayes a male dominent franchise. I think toei wants the dragonball fandom go expend into the female territory for servel reasons

1. Is to sell more merchendise

. 2 to intreduce the politicly correct sjw/diversety agenda into dragonball. Just like marvel and star wars did

I think the later is more dominent. Thats why kefla is so OP. They dont care about how it looks. They want a marry sue and they want it badly.

This isnt just about the Saiyan girls but about ribrianne as well. Look at the design of ribrianne. Transformation from a skinny model looking into an overwhight middle aged looking woman. The sjw agenda is clear here. Sjw's and feminist despise good looking woman and promote obesity non stop. In the name of "diversety".

Thats why ribrianne is being shoved in out throats over and over. I believe its in the name of feminism.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:24 am

Nurse! Nurse, he's out of bed again.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:28 am

Akira Toriyama, truly an icon of feminism.
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:52 pm
It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:43 am

gohan_black wrote:What i think toei is doing with kale and cauliflia and also with ribrianne is to gain the female audience. Dragon ball was allwayes a male dominent franchise. I think toei wants the dragonball fandom go expend into the female territory for servel reasons

1. Is to sell more merchendise

. 2 to intreduce the politicly correct sjw/diversety agenda into dragonball. Just like marvel and star wars did

I think the later is more dominent. Thats why kefla is so OP. They dont care about how it looks. They want a marry sue and they want it badly.

This isnt just about the Saiyan girls but about ribrianne as well. Look at the design of ribrianne. Transformation from a skinny model looking into an overwhight middle aged looking woman. The sjw agenda is clear here. Sjw's and feminist despise good looking woman and promote obesity non stop. In the name of "diversety".

Thats why ribrianne is being shoved in out throats over and over. I believe its in the name of feminism.
I don't think feminism has anything to do with Caulifla and Kale being over-powered, you do know that DB Super is an ANIME, made in JAPAN for christs sakes.

They were introduced because they thought Japanese audiences would like them and they would be easily marketable. Thats the only real reason I think they were given so much prominence, though I do believe the series directors like for the characters could also have played a role.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by gohan_black » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:54 am

JazzMazz wrote:
gohan_black wrote:What i think toei is doing with kale and cauliflia and also with ribrianne is to gain the female audience. Dragon ball was allwayes a male dominent franchise. I think toei wants the dragonball fandom go expend into the female territory for servel reasons

1. Is to sell more merchendise

. 2 to intreduce the politicly correct sjw/diversety agenda into dragonball. Just like marvel and star wars did

I think the later is more dominent. Thats why kefla is so OP. They dont care about how it looks. They want a marry sue and they want it badly.

This isnt just about the Saiyan girls but about ribrianne as well. Look at the design of ribrianne. Transformation from a skinny model looking into an overwhight middle aged looking woman. The sjw agenda is clear here. Sjw's and feminist despise good looking woman and promote obesity non stop. In the name of "diversety".

Thats why ribrianne is being shoved in out throats over and over. I believe its in the name of feminism.
I don't think feminism has anything to do with Caulifla and Kale being over-powered, you do know that DB Super is an ANIME, made in JAPAN for christs sakes.

They were introduced because they thought Japanese audiences would like them and they would be easily marketable. Thats the only real reason I think they were given so much prominence, though I do believe the series directors like for the characters could also have played a role.
And beacuse its an anime from japan that means they dont have an SJW agenda? Pc colture is a worldwide phenomanon. Not a westren only territory. Thus the fact dragon ball is from japan do not contradict anything i said

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Gafonso6 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:03 am

I'm not even going to comment the rest because it' not worth it but this.
gohan_black wrote: This isnt just about the Saiyan girls but about ribrianne as well. Look at the design of ribrianne. Transformation from a skinny model looking into an overwhight middle aged looking woman. The sjw agenda is clear here. Sjw's and feminist despise good looking woman and promote obesity non stop. In the name of "diversety".

Thats why ribrianne is being shoved in out throats over and over. I believe its in the name of feminism.
You really think that Ribrianne is fat because of feminism?! I mean really?! How obvious does it have to be that it's just Toriyama flipping the Magical Girl concept upside down?!
I'm just a DB fan that's in the grey area that exists between an Hardcore Fanboy and a Casual :P

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:14 am

gohan_black wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
gohan_black wrote:What i think toei is doing with kale and cauliflia and also with ribrianne is to gain the female audience. Dragon ball was allwayes a male dominent franchise. I think toei wants the dragonball fandom go expend into the female territory for servel reasons

1. Is to sell more merchendise

. 2 to intreduce the politicly correct sjw/diversety agenda into dragonball. Just like marvel and star wars did

I think the later is more dominent. Thats why kefla is so OP. They dont care about how it looks. They want a marry sue and they want it badly.

This isnt just about the Saiyan girls but about ribrianne as well. Look at the design of ribrianne. Transformation from a skinny model looking into an overwhight middle aged looking woman. The sjw agenda is clear here. Sjw's and feminist despise good looking woman and promote obesity non stop. In the name of "diversety".

Thats why ribrianne is being shoved in out throats over and over. I believe its in the name of feminism.
I don't think feminism has anything to do with Caulifla and Kale being over-powered, you do know that DB Super is an ANIME, made in JAPAN for christs sakes.

They were introduced because they thought Japanese audiences would like them and they would be easily marketable. Thats the only real reason I think they were given so much prominence, though I do believe the series directors like for the characters could also have played a role.
And beacuse its an anime from japan that means they dont have an SJW agenda? Pc colture is a worldwide phenomanon. Not a westren only territory. Thus the fact dragon ball is from japan do not contradict anything i said
I am well aware of PC culture, but I'm telling you that Kale and Caulifla's creation had far more to do with pleasing fans than to push forward a political agenda. Political agenda's typically don't sell well, thats against the interests of Toriyama and Co, however, creating decently powerful female Saiyans which the fans have been hungering for ever since Pans poor character use in GT could be a potential jack-pot for them to tap into.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by TheMikado » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:15 am

I’m actually waiting to see how the manga handles them. Bulma, chichi, and Videl all contributed much better and showed strong female roles beyond fighting so it’s been done before. The most egregious role was Pan, however it’s becsuse she had the temperament of Bulma with none of the value to the team.
Ultimately her only worth to the team was her value as Gokus granddaughter and that’s it. I think they wanted to avoid that again and over compensated. Like I said before I think originally we were only supposed to get one female Saiyan who had LSSJ but ended up with 2. In fact I predicted that the two were the same characters with different designs, ironically they ended up fusing into one character to become a threat and of value to the storyline...

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:18 am

TheMikado wrote:I’m actually waiting to see how the manga handles them. Bulma, chichi, and Videl all contributed much better and showed strong female roles beyond fighting so it’s been done before. The most egregious role was Pan, however it’s becsuse she had the temperament of Bulma with none of the value to the team.
Ultimately her only worth to the team was her value as Gokus granddaughter and that’s it. I think they wanted to avoid that again and over compensated. Like I said before I think originally we were only supposed to get one female Saiyan who had LSSJ but ended up with 2. In fact I predicted that the two were the same characters with different designs, ironically they ended up fusing into one character to become a threat and of value to the storyline...
Didn't they mention in an interview with the produced that Pans entire role in GT was to set up the problem for Goku to fix?

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Yomi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:50 am

I can't even wrap my head around this thread even existing. Does one really think Ribrianne is fat for that reason?
As if Toriyama just frequents tumblr now and wants to write a story about plus sized power?
Last edited by Yomi on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:54 am

Yomi wrote:I can't even wrap my head around this thread even existing. Does one really think Ribrianne is fat for that reason?
Toriyama just frequents tumblr now and wants to write a story about plus sized power?
Ribrianne was designed by Toriyama to be annoying simple as that.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Gafonso6 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:57 am

Yomi wrote:I can't even wrap my head around this thread even existing. Does one really think Ribrianne is fat for that reason?
Toriyama just frequents tumblr now and wants to write a story about plus sized power?
Yeah. Didn't you know he goes by the name of emo_Tori there.
I'm just a DB fan that's in the grey area that exists between an Hardcore Fanboy and a Casual :P

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by TheMikado » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:23 am

JazzMazz wrote:
TheMikado wrote:I’m actually waiting to see how the manga handles them. Bulma, chichi, and Videl all contributed much better and showed strong female roles beyond fighting so it’s been done before. The most egregious role was Pan, however it’s becsuse she had the temperament of Bulma with none of the value to the team.
Ultimately her only worth to the team was her value as Gokus granddaughter and that’s it. I think they wanted to avoid that again and over compensated. Like I said before I think originally we were only supposed to get one female Saiyan who had LSSJ but ended up with 2. In fact I predicted that the two were the same characters with different designs, ironically they ended up fusing into one character to become a threat and of value to the storyline...
Didn't they mention in an interview with the produced that Pans entire role in GT was to set up the problem for Goku to fix?
Yes which shows a very traditional approach to female characters. Toriyama has a unique and distinctive style to his depiction of female characters. They follow the same exact formula.

The are strong-willed, loud, and intense which not paired. Once paired they become more docile and take a less visible role.
18 is the exception however here detached demeanor stems both from the teenager aloofness and her robotic element.

Anyway Toriyama's main female characters ALWAYS have two defining elements. The personality, and then in addition to this a status, title, or mechanism which defines their actions and story.

Chichi - daughter of the Ox King and fighter
Bulma - Brilliant inventor
Videl - Daughter of the World Champ and fighter
18 - Super strong Android

Pan - Daughter of Gohan and Videl and fighter
Caulifa - Gang leader
Kale - protege?

I separated out the last three to illustrate the break from Toriyama's formula. For instance in the case of Pan we see that the concept is his, however the execution is not. Pan was not executed in the style Toriyama was traditionally done in.
As a result the character suffered horribly and likely why GT was poorly received. She was had the bloodline and pedigree but it basically amounted to being encouragement and plot mechanism for Goku.

Caulifa- is a prime example of this. Here status as a gang member would make her a natural leader and likely what Toriyama had envisioned for the character. Instead her execution is obnoxious. I predict in the manga Caulifa will take a more leadership role and approach overall as it may be closer to her intended execution.

Kale- I do not feel she should exist at all. I don't believe she was intended to to be honest or at least not as she does. As a character she feels incomplete. Incredibly insecure for some unknown reason. The character is defined almost exclusively by her unique form and transformation. This is not Toriyama's style, its almost as if aspects of her were split off of Caulifa in order to create a new character. I insisted long ago that Kale and Caulifa were same character, while of course I was wrong, I do find it interested that not only are the essentially fused at hip story-wise, but they fuse into a single character, and further fill like a more complete and rounded female character that Toriyama would traditionally produce.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:23 am

JazzMazz wrote:Didn't they mention in an interview with the produced that Pans entire role in GT was to set up the problem for Goku to fix?
I think they said it became the formula during the Luud arc. Pan would cause a problem and Goku would have to solve it. They really did her dirty there.

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:31 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Akira Toriyama, truly an icon of feminism.
Entire discussion pretty much and rather effectively summed up in one sarcastic comment. In this particular case with these particular characters, I'd peg this all as progression naturally adjacent to, not necessary/inherently because of, feminism or anyone's specific dirty liberal SJW agenda. Which... uhh, yeah, is actually a pretty good thing.

Also, anyone framing this in any way as if having some strong female Saiyan characters is somehow "a bad thing"...? Puuuuleeeeeeeease. Spare me.
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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by gohan_black » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:43 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Akira Toriyama, truly an icon of feminism.
Entire discussion pretty much and rather effectively summed up in one sarcastic comment. In this particular case with these particular characters, I'd peg this all as progression naturally adjacent to, not necessary/inherently because of, feminism or anyone's specific dirty liberal SJW agenda. Which... uhh, yeah, is actually a pretty good thing.

Also, anyone framing this in any way as if having some strong female Saiyan characters is somehow "a bad thing"...? Puuuuleeeeeeeease. Spare me.
It not a bad thing when it make sense. But it dosent. Kefla is clearly a marry sue when goku cant beat them in ss blue and need ultra instinct for it

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:51 am

I would posit that you (and the majority of people tossing out the term) don't actually understand what a Mary Sue is, and are grasping at straws for ways to articulate what is probably something much deeper of an explanation, if not outright issue within themselves.

Any sort of disparaging comments toward a group of people based solely on their inherent state of being will not be tolerated. Let me reiterate to all that you're free to editorialize on the show, but you're not free to be a hateful sack of crap on Kanzenshuu.
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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Hawk9211 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:52 am

The only reason is fanservice.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am

What an honor to be quoted by Mr Vegetto EX! Cool!

However I have to make my stance clear so that there are no misunderstandings. I didnt mean to say feminism is good or bad, that Toriyama is sexist or isnt. He's just a guy who does what he loves. He,for better or worse does what he wants in whatever he writes and I doubt he has any sort of agenda when writing Super.
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:52 pm
It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: I think feminism is the reason for the overpowerd female charecters

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:03 am

They've been trying to get girls into this since GT which is why Pan played such a major role in it. When heroes blew up they didn't waste any time introducing female avatars so there's clearly been a push to get girls into DB long before Super was a thing.

In terms of why the saiyan girls are so overpowered, it's because saiyans and their multpile forms and fusions sell so from a merchandise point of view (Super's reason for existing), it makes since to keep them around for as long as possible.
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