Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Faisal Shourov » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:26 pm

It's undeniable Dragon Ball is quite behind the curve in female exposure. No, I don't want it to be 'progressive' as Buzzfeed wants. However for modern anime we had quite a few primary female antagonists in many mainstream shows.

Don't read below if you haven't caught upto One Piece, if you're following the show

In the current arc Luffy will soon be fighting Big Mom, who has been a pretty great character honestly. I love her backstory and her unique sinister personality (and her powers too). I am finally again interested in One Piece after the drag Dressrosa Arc. After seeing her I believe a shonen anime can make decent female antagonist if they want (not like the garbage named Kaguya we had in Naruto)

Do you want to see a primary female antagonist, as Big Mom was? If so what and how do you expect her to be?
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Jigurashi » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:10 pm

I don't really care to see a male or female primary antagonist tbh. If we do get a female one cool, but I'm not really hoping and wishing for one.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Chuquita » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:17 pm

We have them in videogames (Towa and now Android 21) so sure, why not have a main female antagonist in an Super. I'd be happy to have one. I like arcs with antagonists in general. I desperately miss having an antagonist now that Gokû Black is gone.

Oda's world building is something I love and something I feel is lacking in Dragon Ball, but I think it comes down to differences in creative writing theory between Oda (who goes big and loud) and Toriyama (who goes simple and compact).

Towa and 21 are both mad scientist types though, so I'd hope a prospective female antagonist in Super would be able to set herself apart from those two.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:18 pm

I'm interested in any character or arc that brings something to the table in terms of an enjoyable story. So I wouldn't personally mind either way.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:19 pm

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Towa eventually crosses over into Super.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:59 pm

Give me Demon Goddess Towa and her demon army

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Torturephile » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:26 am

It would be an interesting choice for a villain, since there hasn't been any, the closest being Linda Young-dubbed Freeza. Ultimately, however, I just want a good, charming villain regardless of whether he's a transgender namekian or something else.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by BlueVegerot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:37 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:It's undeniable Dragon Ball is quite behind the curve in female exposure. No, I don't want it to be 'progressive' as Buzzfeed wants. However for modern anime we had quite a few primary female antagonists in many mainstream shows.

Don't read below if you haven't caught upto One Piece, if you're following the show

In the current arc Luffy will soon be fighting Big Mom, who has been a pretty great character honestly. I love her backstory and her unique sinister personality (and her powers too). I am finally again interested in One Piece after the drag Dressrosa Arc. After seeing her I believe a shonen anime can make decent female antagonist if they want (not like the garbage named Kaguya we had in Naruto)

Do you want to see a primary female antagonist, as Big Mom was? If so what and how do you expect her to be?

A lot of people got outraged when the whole videl spopovich thing happened. Same thing would happen if vegeta beat up some chick brutally.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:59 am

BlueVegerot wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:It's undeniable Dragon Ball is quite behind the curve in female exposure. No, I don't want it to be 'progressive' as Buzzfeed wants. However for modern anime we had quite a few primary female antagonists in many mainstream shows.

Don't read below if you haven't caught upto One Piece, if you're following the show

In the current arc Luffy will soon be fighting Big Mom, who has been a pretty great character honestly. I love her backstory and her unique sinister personality (and her powers too). I am finally again interested in One Piece after the drag Dressrosa Arc. After seeing her I believe a shonen anime can make decent female antagonist if they want (not like the garbage named Kaguya we had in Naruto)

Do you want to see a primary female antagonist, as Big Mom was? If so what and how do you expect her to be?

A lot of people got outraged when the whole videl spopovich thing happened. Same thing would happen if vegeta beat up some chick brutally.
17 beat the absolute crap out of Vikal, yet I didn't see any outrage

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by BlueVegerot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 am

He didn't beat the absolute crap out of her at all. I'm talking about Goku slapping freeza a shit ton of times, gohan sadistically beating cell and buu or what vegeta did to golden freeza or even goku black. I guarantee you that would cause issues

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Faisal Shourov » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:12 am

BlueVegerot wrote: A lot of people got outraged when the whole videl spopovich thing happened. Same thing would happen if vegeta beat up some chick brutally.
What are you talking about? Luffy regularly beats the shit out of girls, his first opponent was a fat female named Alvida. There has never been any outrage, Japan doesn't care about those stuff. Naruto was punching around Kaguya too.

Kamijou Touma from A Certain Magical Index is famous for punching girls, he has done it several times lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EdHqYKfhNc
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by BlueVegerot » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:14 am

I didn't say japanese fans would care. Western fans care a lot more about that type of stuff.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Faisal Shourov » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:16 am

BlueVegerot wrote:I didn't say japanese fans would care. Western fans care a lot more about that type of stuff.
DBS isn't made for Western audience, Toei doesn't care much about what people outside Japan think. Also there was never any outrage, One Piece and Naruto have been out there for 20 years and nothing happened with Naruto punched Kaguya or Sasuke stabbed Sakura. Naruto is reasonably popular in the West as well.
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by sintzu » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:22 am

If the character is well written, well designed & brings something new to the franchise then yes.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Faisal Shourov » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:29 am

sintzu wrote:If the character is well written, well designed & brings something new to the franchise then yes.
Same. I don't know if DBS can pull it off though. What do you think of Big Mom?
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by sintzu » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:35 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:I don't know if DBS can pull it off though.

What do you think of Big Mom?
They've been hit or miss, Black was a great characters yet Jerin is the most boring in all of DB. Unless DB or Super decides to completely step out of its safe zone then no, it won't really be able to pull off things like that.

I haven't seen that arc as I just finished Thriller Bark but I read a bit about her and she sounds really interesting.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Kinokima » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:39 am

BlueVegerot wrote:I didn't say japanese fans would care. Western fans care a lot more about that type of stuff.

No we wouldn’t. If a female character is evil and is capable of fighting than it shouldn’t matter if she is eventually beaten in a fight!

And the West has plenty of female villains!

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Faisal Shourov » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:41 am

sintzu wrote:
They've been hit or miss, Black was a great characters yet Jerin is the most boring in all of DB. Unless DB or Super decides to completely step out of its safe zone then no, it won't really be able to pull off things like that.

I haven't seen that arc as I just finished Thriller Bark but I read a bit about her and she sounds really interesting.
Thing is, Toriyama is not a great writer like Oda. Oda can write very complex villains with deep backstory. However none of them are too edgy or cringy (you can call them wacky, but whole One Piece is wacky). If Toriyama tries to write a female villain it will fall within a stereotype, from what I make of his writing style. I don't thing DBS can escape its safe zone, although I wish they would

Big Mom is a great character imo, I don't want to spoil you though. I suggest you drop the anime entirely after finishing Punk Hazard arc, the pacing is unbearably bad. Read the manga to escape the terrible Toei pacing.
Toyotarō: … I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?

Toriyama: Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by sintzu » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:00 am

Faisal Shourov wrote:I suggest you drop the anime entirely after finishing Punk Hazard arc, the pacing is unbearably bad. Read the manga to escape the terrible Toei pacing.
Is it even bad if I marathon the whole arc in a few days ?
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Totamo » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:40 am

No, fuck no. Because when and if people don't like the character, people will call you a sexist misogynist asshole or if Toriyama doesn't write the character like people want him to, they will call him a sexiest misogynist asshole.



Keep gender politics out of dragon ball, lets go back to big muscular aliens beating the crap out of each other. Leave that stuff for Oda.

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