Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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pacz360
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by pacz360 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:03 pm

sintzu wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:I don't know if DBS can pull it off though.

What do you think of Big Mom?
They've been hit or miss, Black was a great characters yet Jerin is the most boring in all of DB. Unless DB or Super decides to completely step out of its safe zone then no, it won't really be able to pull off things like that.

I haven't seen that arc as I just finished Thriller Bark but I read a bit about her and she sounds really interesting.
which is your opinion

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by TheMikado » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:14 pm

Majin Jator wrote:
TheMikado wrote:A good female character/ protagonist or antagonist/ should not be interchangeably male.

As it stands now you could change one or both Kale and Caulifa to males and it would change the plot and overall story very little. Thus fair them being uniquely females adds absolutely nothing to the story. .
I'm not sure I'm getting your point here (honestly, not trying to be sarcastic). As I read it it seems like all characters must be males by default unless their feminity plays a part. If you mean that (again, I'm not sure) then I beg to differ, I'm ok with characters being females just because females exist and it would be weird not to have any new female character, and I'm ok too with the lack of "feminine" stereotypes. I actually like how the rest of the cast goes along with it without comments like "I don't want to fight a girl" or "you fight well..for a woman!" or any of that crap. I believe that actually does a better job standarizing female roles (even if that's not the intention, as we stablished in another post) than taking the CW's show route, with the characters pointing out how feminist is everything they do.
The point is don’t swap the gender of a character unless you have a good reason which adds to the story. Basically what was the intention when conceiving their characters was it simply to have a female character or because the character as designed moved the story forward.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:31 pm

pacz360 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:I don't know if DBS can pull it off though.

What do you think of Big Mom?
They've been hit or miss, Black was a great characters yet Jerin is the most boring in all of DB. Unless DB or Super decides to completely step out of its safe zone then no, it won't really be able to pull off things like that.

I haven't seen that arc as I just finished Thriller Bark but I read a bit about her and she sounds really interesting.
which is your opinion
Well... duh. :roll:

People shouldn't have to state "in my opinion" after everything they say just to get the point across that it is their opinion. Whenever someone states an opinion without adding "in my opinion" at the end they aren't automatically trying to parade their opinion around as a fact. It just means that it should be obvious that it is an opinion. After all this is a message board for sharing opinions.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:38 am

As long as she's compelling. It's most important to be interesting; gender really doesn't matter to me.
TekTheNinja wrote:People shouldn't have to state "in my opinion" after everything they say just to get the point across that it is their opinion. Whenever someone states an opinion without adding "in my opinion" at the end they aren't automatically trying to parade their opinion around as a fact. It just means that it should be obvious that it is an opinion. After all this is a message board for sharing opinions.
Thank you.
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(Replace "movie" with "DBS episode" and that's pretty much my thoughts in regards to DBS critique)

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:40 am

I mean, as long as the villain is foreboding and compelling (ala Zamasu), I wouldn't mind.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:50 pm

Torturephile wrote:
Ilikepictures-meh wrote:
BlueVegerot wrote:

A lot of people got outraged when the whole videl spopovich thing happened. Same thing would happen if vegeta beat up some chick brutally.
17 beat the absolute crap out of Vikal, yet I didn't see any outrage
Because 17 simply beat up Vikal in a speedy manner and it was shown from a distance, and went for a quick knockout. Spopovich kept beating up Videl out of cold blood despite he could have ended it quickly. Also, that beatdown was shown in detail, and Videl was bleeding and crying at the end of the "fight".
The entire point of the Video vs Spopovich scene was for us to get outraged though. Not only do we literally see that she would have won the fight if Spopovich didn't have the hacks Majin possession, but he than goes on to torture her so Gohan (and the fans will get angry and be hyped for Gohan to wreak him).

Your delusional if you believe that scenario would get the same reaction if a villainous female character was shown killing various people, or owning Vegeta previously, and then he finally wreaks her to stop her terror. The scenarios are completely different. Plenty of animes/manga have villainous antagonist eventually getting destroyed by the protagonist after causing so much suffering (Overlord's Clemintine says hi), and no one cries about it. Beside the fact that protagonist don't generally torture opponents, it was the very fact that one, Videl was basically tortured for little to no reason, and two, without those hacks she would have won the fight, that causes people to be "outraged" by what happened

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Alruneia » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:06 am

(I can't comment on any One Piece stuff as I've never read/watched it.)

I mean, I'm not opposed to the idea (two of the main opponents in my fanfic are female), I mostly just... don't care? For me, what really matters is execution. An interesting and well executed female villain is just as good as an interesting and well executed male villain, nothing more and nothing less. So if Tori/Toyo/Toei make up an interesting primary antagonist, I'm all for it regardless of gender.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:17 am

Totamo wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Totamo wrote:No, fuck no. Because when and if people don't like the character, people will call you a sexist misogynist asshole or if Toriyama doesn't write the character like people want him to, they will call him a sexiest misogynist asshole.

Keep gender politics out of dragon ball, lets go back to big muscular aliens beating the crap out of each other. Leave that stuff for Oda.
You're going to be called that regardless of what you do. If you don't have them you're called that, if you don't do them how they want you're called that, if fans like or hate them they're called that.
At least it wasn't in my face back then, I can't even go on twitter right now because of people arguing about why people really hate these characters. It angers me because I use dragon ball to get away from that. Everything else in America has been politicized, why do hell does this have to be?

If female characters in Super bring this nonsense with them, then fuck all of that. More buff dudes to punch is the way to go. Dragon ball was successful before this "diversity" Crap, it will be successful without this diversity crap. Anyone got a problem can go read fanfiction for all I care.

I'm sorry for my aggression but I'm just so sick of my entertainment being used for this same stupid nonsense everywhere to the point now I question every decision as a propaganda tool. Thank goodness Toriyama doesn't do this, too bad some of this fanbase does.

Its the only reason I hope that something bad happens to these female saiyans that it drives them all away from the show and i hate that I have that hope. These people are literally killing dragon ball for me right now.
I have to tell you that the problem is not exclusive to America here in Europe it's the same crap, welcome to the 2010's where all minorities matters where white male cis genre are the devil and where every opinion view should be allowed.

Anyway for the question of the Topic I wouldn't mind a female antagonist, we already have Towa and Android 21 for the videogames side why not on the show.
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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by sintzu » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:31 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I have to tell you that the problem is not exclusive to America here in Europe it's the same crap, welcome to the 2010's where all minorities matters where white male cis genre are the devil and where every opinion view should be allowed.

Anyway for the question of the Topic I wouldn't mind a female antagonist, we already have Towa and Android 21 for the videogames side why not on the show.
Thankfully America had the sense enough to elect someone who cares about actual issues and giving the country its international weight back.

If the 2 Saiyan hags and their fusion are anything to go by then chances are the show will mess it up.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by Basaku » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:32 pm

sintzu wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I have to tell you that the problem is not exclusive to America here in Europe it's the same crap, welcome to the 2010's where all minorities matters where white male cis genre are the devil and where every opinion view should be allowed.

Anyway for the question of the Topic I wouldn't mind a female antagonist, we already have Towa and Android 21 for the videogames side why not on the show.
Thankfully America had the sense enough to elect someone who cares about actual issues and giving the country its international weight back.
Agree. Those tax cuts for golf clubs and cutting millions from healthcare are really pressing matters.

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Re: Do you want to see a primary female antagonist in Super?(some spoilers for One Piece)

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:32 am

Basaku wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I have to tell you that the problem is not exclusive to America here in Europe it's the same crap, welcome to the 2010's where all minorities matters where white male cis genre are the devil and where every opinion view should be allowed.

Anyway for the question of the Topic I wouldn't mind a female antagonist, we already have Towa and Android 21 for the videogames side why not on the show.
Thankfully America had the sense enough to elect someone who cares about actual issues and giving the country its international weight back.
Agree. Those tax cuts for golf clubs and cutting millions from healthcare are really pressing matters.
Ok, ok, stop. No politics, guys. This is a Dragon Ball Forum. That's like, the last place this kind of thing belongs.

But yeah, One Piece kinda has a thing where basically almost every female antagonist who actually stays as an antagonist is a giant ugly as sin Jabba the Hut blob monster. I kinda hate the whole ugly=evil trope in media so I'd hope Dragon Ball would avoid that.
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saiyanvegetable wrote:Trunks slowly realizes this is not the past he came to when he fought Cell, instead he finds himself trapped in a world with hollow caricatures, a talking cat, and a Goku who beat the heart virus but is suffering from retardation.

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