Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

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Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:08 pm

Of all 3 transformations introduced in Super (actually the movies but whatever), it seems UI gets the least amount of negative responses from fans. I remember when SSJ God first got revealed fans we're calling it "just another recolor" and "unoriginal" and "it's just Base Goku with red hair" the same thing with SSJ Blue when it debuted, "Ah! Another recolor! We knew it! Toriyama is lazy!"

However with UI, i haven't seen a single negative comment yet. Which is surprising on one hand ofcourse, yet not that surprising considering how awesome the concept behind this state is.

I think fans are starting to get used to recolors, and "simple" transformations by this point, they know Toriyama's game now. Yet UI isn't even a recolor! It's literally Goku's black hair in Base! Which is.. Good!

2. It's not just a form, it's a technique too. Most fans can't seem to wrap their heads around this, but UI is both a form and a technique. Remember Occam's Razor? And because of that, it's original and unique. It's main "power" comes from his technique,— the ability to move without thinking = Mastery of Self-Movement. As opposed to other transformations which were all mainly about power ups.

People like it from the beginning and will continue to do so. They're immediately buying the concept and accept it for what it is without any whining or complaints this time.

What are your thoughts.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:35 pm

It is because it is not exclusive to Saiyans and it also seems to have some liminations and they that it does not last that long and that it is hard to activate.

It needs to always have limitations or it has a very good chance of ruining the series going forward.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:49 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:It is because it is not exclusive to Saiyans and it also seems to have some liminations and they that it does not last that long and that it is hard to activate.

It needs to always have limitations or it has a very good chance of ruining the series going forward.
The fact that Goku was/is unable to maintain it doesn't mean that the form itself is unsustainable. Goku was/is simply exhausted from his fight with Jiren. That is all. It's been stated numerous times.If Goku takes a senzu bean he would power up in this form at will and be able to maintain it as long as he wants.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by gofishus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:43 pm

1. its not specific to saiyans

2. it has roots in martial arts techniques

3. its refreshingly 'different' than SSG, SSJB and SSJR which are all recolors

4. We saw exactly how Goku got this form unlike SSJB which happened off screen

5. it was alluded to by Whis early in the series and Goku finally achieved it. It didnt come out of nowhere like 'SSJ Rage' (my most hated SSJ form btw)

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by majinwarman » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:22 pm

These are my views about this form/technique if you believe if it is a technique.
1. It was built up throughout the series like Super Saiyan.
2. It is something different than a color change.
3. It is something that can be achieve by others.
4. It has roots in martial arts.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Kanious » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:03 pm

i like it and it doesn't seems like Goku's base hair... His hair is different and this is great [but still, i would prefer if the hair was exact the same as super saiyan 1 or 2, but black]

Also, about being both a technique and a form... it's like GOD forms. They are both transformations based on techniques [god ki].

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Benedetto12 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:59 pm

I like this new form a lot, the fact that it´s not exclusive to saiyans is great, it means we could see a great variety of characters developing it (Freeza, Vegeta and Jiren come to my mind right now) also the concept it´s really unique, while it provides a huge power up like the others forms, it allows the user to perform the Ultra Instinct technique, something really new and cool to DB Universe.

Also the fact that it got it´s debut on screen makes it cooler than SSB and SS3 for example. It makes the transformation more memorable just like SSJ and SSJ2, and unlike SSJ Ikari, it got an explanation on screen.

Everything fits nicely with this new form

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:08 pm

I really like SSG and it's still my favorite visually when done correctly...however I like the vibe and significance of UI more.

I'm not overly fond of Blue but don't hate it.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Loputousu » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:48 pm

Apart from the fact it's not an SSJ form, I agree.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Xeztin » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:50 pm

It's a form that was much needed if there had to be more, Goku being able to use SSG and Blue is kind of broken to be honest. Ever since Goku mastered SSJ the forms have been too easy to obtain and to hold. No drawbacks whatsoever and now Kaioken Blue doesn't even have one. The form doesn't last long, and it's not something exclusive to Goku and or Saiyans. It only comes when Goku is completely drained and beat down or so it seems, I just hope they don't try to combine the form with SSG and Blue or a Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct. The SSJ forms should have been stopped after God, especially if it's going to be like Blue, a recolor. God Ki seems to be an abandoned element as well. If Kelfa pushes SSJB Kaioken Goku then she should be able to take on Beerus as well which is strange even for Super.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by HeroR » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 am

Xeztin wrote:It's a form that was much needed if there had to be more, Goku being able to use SSG and Blue is kind of broken to be honest. Ever since Goku mastered SSJ the forms have been too easy to obtain and to hold. No drawbacks whatsoever and now Kaioken Blue doesn't even have one. The form doesn't last long, and it's not something exclusive to Goku and or Saiyans. It only comes when Goku is completely drained and beat down or so it seems, I just hope they don't try to combine the form with SSG and Blue or a Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct. The SSJ forms should have been stopped after God, especially if it's going to be like Blue, a recolor. God Ki seems to be an abandoned element as well. If Kelfa pushes SSJB Kaioken Goku then she should be able to take on Beerus as well which is strange even for Super.
Not really since Blue even with the Kaioken is still well below Beerus. And God ki was never build up something that can't be surpassed with normal ki since Golden Freeza and later Hit.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Wezenheim » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:04 am

While I definitely have seen my fair share of people who are not happy with Ultra Instinct, it doesn't surprise me that it's been more well-received than the previous forms introduced in the newer material. It looks cool, it had a great introduction, and it actually works in a unique way compared to Dragon Ball's other transformations. It's not just some power multiplier.

I do think at least a small part of it is based on how the other forms were initially presented, though. Super Saiyan Blue in particular did not have a very impressive or exciting debut in the Resurrection 'F' film or Super. I think it also had a hard time winning over fans who believed it never really found its footing as a standout transformation or even one that felt all that important.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Ziegander » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:05 am

The design is amazing, it's animation has been consistently amazing, and Goku's fighting stance, style, and demeanor in the form are all amazing. That said... I'm still not personally sold on how he achieved it or how it's supposed to actually make any sense (I have a theory). I said before it didn't make any sense and felt pretty asspully to me, despite it being fucking glorious to behold, and people told me, "dude, it said right there in the episode, getting hit by the spirit bomb caused him to break his limits (wut) and achieve a new state of being," implying that a) nearly dying and being forced to ride or die got him there, I mean, okay, I guess (but Kefla tho), but also b) that... nearly dying caused him to break his limits and... uh... learn a new technique that, strictly speaking is neither a power up, nor something that should be able to prevent him from dying. Oh wait, I guess it also implies that c) To avoid dying, in addition to breaking his limits and learning a new technique in the process, to prevent himself from dying and being entirely out of energy, Goku "powered the new form" (and, by extension, himself) with the energy from the Spirit Bomb, effectively absorbing the energy that should have killed him so he could continue to fight even though he was exhausted, something that Goku has never, ever been shown to be able to do (absorb the energy from an attack).

Now, since the Kefla fight, I'm not seeing anyone question how UI works. Everyone used to say, "dude, they laid it all out in the episode," see above, but if all that was the case, to me, that still never made any sense then and it certainly doesn't make any sense now. Kefla didn't do anything to Goku that came anywhere close to killing him and even though he was out of energy he didn't have a spirit bomb or anything similar to "power" his return to Ultra Instinct. Say he's learning to control it all you want, but I think there's actually something else going on. I'm willing to see how it plays out, but despite how awesome it looks and is to see in action, Ultra Instinct still can be seen as a Deus ex Machina power up that just automatically gets Goku out of jail for free everytime he might lose.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Lionel » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:51 am

Agree with Ziegander. Too much about the status is shrouded in confusion and haphazard usage. If the previous achievement of the form's strength had been empowered by the Spirit Bomb then this secondary release shouldn't have the same increase. Ultra Instinct itself is just non-cognitive bodily movement; the "Omen" aspect came as a result of the Spirit Bomb powering up Goku. Oh, but nevermind the fact that such a device shouldn't have enabled Goku to power up so much in the first place when the resources used to create it would be a paltry amount of power relative to what Goku in blue with Kaioken should wield, much less Jiren and his status as the ningen stronger than Hakaishin. If you want salvage some semblance of reason here, in my opinion, the Ultra Instinct ability in this recent episode should not be strengthening Goku. It would enable his body to operate autonomously at the optimal speed in which they're able to move at, but he shouldn't be receiving any kind of power increase since the Spirit Bomb element is lacking.

In what of we've glimpsed from the preview for next episode, this breach of conditions might very well go unexplained. Yes, Goku has apparently "broken through his limitations to his potential", but the power source therein is lacking.

In my opinion, Ultra Instinct is an impressive new form that deserves credit for hearkening back to what Whis first spoke about in RoF. Contrary to previous forms, there's some technical element to it that gives the appearance of the user genuinely being of some martial aptitude. With that said, I don't care for the implications of this form's existence because it's only going to centralise narrative authority around Goku even further. I believe there's a huge potentiality with this form remaining an exclusive to just a select few characters, similar to the Kaioken. How likely do you find the possibility of this form being acquired by others apart from just Goku? Vegeta might achieve it, what with him also having studied under Whis and having that same concept of autonomous movement imparted with him. No one else seems to be of any particular interest sans Freeza who already has his own means for improvement via that untapped wellspring of potential he owns.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Pantalones » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:00 am

something that Goku has never, ever been shown to be able to do (absorb the energy from an attack).
Didn't Goku at the end of Battle of Gods do exactly that? Talking about the bit when he briefly went back into the red SSj God form rather than the weird "god power golden Super Saiyan" state he'd been fighting in before and Beerus's blast vanished rather than blowing him (and Earth) up, even though he was worn out at that point. I suppose it could've just been Beerus choosing not to destroy Goku at the last second before the blast hit, but the random SSj God transformation definitely made it seem like something more than that was going on.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:41 am

Ziegander wrote:The design is amazing, it's animation has been consistently amazing, and Goku's fighting stance, style, and demeanor in the form are all amazing. That said... I'm still not personally sold on how he achieved it or how it's supposed to actually make any sense (I have a theory). I said before it didn't make any sense and felt pretty asspully to me, despite it being fucking glorious to behold, and people told me, "dude, it said right there in the episode, getting hit by the spirit bomb caused him to break his limits (wut) and achieve a new state of being," implying that a) nearly dying and being forced to ride or die got him there, I mean, okay, I guess (but Kefla tho), but also b) that... nearly dying caused him to break his limits and... uh... learn a new technique that, strictly speaking is neither a power up, nor something that should be able to prevent him from dying. Oh wait, I guess it also implies that c) To avoid dying, in addition to breaking his limits and learning a new technique in the process, to prevent himself from dying and being entirely out of energy, Goku "powered the new form" (and, by extension, himself) with the energy from the Spirit Bomb, effectively absorbing the energy that should have killed him so he could continue to fight even though he was exhausted, something that Goku has never, ever been shown to be able to do (absorb the energy from an attack).

Now, since the Kefla fight, I'm not seeing anyone question how UI works. Everyone used to say, "dude, they laid it all out in the episode," see above, but if all that was the case, to me, that still never made any sense then and it certainly doesn't make any sense now. Kefla didn't do anything to Goku that came anywhere close to killing him and even though he was out of energy he didn't have a spirit bomb or anything similar to "power" his return to Ultra Instinct. Say he's learning to control it all you want, but I think there's actually something else going on. I'm willing to see how it plays out, but despite how awesome it looks and is to see in action, Ultra Instinct still can be seen as a Deus ex Machina power up that just automatically gets Goku out of jail for free everytime he might lose.
By the second time against Kefla, Goku had already awakened Ultra Instinct within him once, so naturally since it's already been awakened inside of him, it's much easier to obtain it again, all Goku needed was a push, and the fierce battle with Kefla was exactly such a push he needed.

The first time the conditions were perfect for that particular case. Awakening something completely new out of nowhere! And that's why the conditions were so extreme, nearly dying, being pushed WAYYYYY beyond his limits, absorbing the GK as a temporary power source for his depleted body, etc.
Makes sense!

The second time it also makes sense in comparison and is evenly balanced. Yes, the conditions requiered to trigger it were FAR less than the first time, however! Goku already awakened Ultra Instinct within him before. So naturally, it's much easier to reobtain it, and all he needed was a push. Albeit a pretty fierce one too ofcourse.
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Here are the main reasons so far:

1. It’s not an asspull. It’s been hinted at ever since before the Resurrection F arc.

2. It focuses on technique far more than power. That is, it has roots in Martial Arts. It isn’t just another power-up focusing on multipliers like all the others.

3. It isn’t just another recolor.

4. Goku’s dead serious! Hasn’t said a word yet while in this form and has that special “I’m going to destroy you look.” And i think fans are especially drawn to that. It’s the pinnacle of badassery afterall.

5. The way it was achieved. This wasn’t just a lazy method such as the SSJ God Ritual, or him absorbing the Genki Dama, No. This was a result of being pushed to the absolute upper limit, where he basically nearly died and came out on top of it. It was achieved by “breaking through his shell” and big time! May i add. It was totally deserved! Since it was all about survival.

6. It isn’t just a Saiyan exclusive state. Unlike all the other SSJ Forms. It can potentially be obtained by anyone, as some Gods of Destruction and all the Angels are known to use it.

7. It’s overall portrayal and aura. The silver eyes and basically everything about it! It looks so absolutely godly!
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:03 pm

IMO Ultra Instinct is the best transformation introduced in the series since SSJ2 Gohan.
gofishus wrote:4. We saw exactly how Goku got this form unlike SSJB which happened off screen
I think this is the most relevant point, the whole 'mise en scène', dramatical setup and crescendo applied on a character that we care about contributes quite a lot. This should also explain my above comment.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:34 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:I really like SSG and it's still my favorite visually when done correctly...however I like the vibe and significance of UI more.

I'm not overly fond of Blue but don't hate it.
Pretty much my opinion in a nutshell.

My preference ranking for "new" transformations in Super goes something along the lines of: SSG = UI > SSR > SSB.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen" definitely seems to be the most positively accepted and well received SSJ Form of the new ones

Post by BWri » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:15 am

I called it August 2016 on my blog with the SSB:

"The red form was jarring but it at least simplified things again and made them fresh, with new concepts such as making a character more lean. Blooper Saiyan is just a plain ol' retread with different coloring. The only thing I like about it is the aura and the way it looks all static-y. If they had that aura, plain black hair and maybe some glowing blue eyes, then I think I could get behind this as the ascended form of Super Saiyan God. As is it just feels like a cheap attempt to make new toys. Nothing organic about it."

And in the same post I mentioned my overall opinions on transformations in the show and called what would make them more appealing:

"So all in all you can see that I'm a major fan of the more original transformations. Some have more potential for expansion than others. I am starting to get fatigued on them all though. They've already lost what made them special since there's a new one with each new arc or movie, etc. By making them palette swaps now it quickens that fatigue. I believe the forms each need something more unique to them. They need a real reason for their use otherwise it's just a countdown until they are obsolete and that's no fun."

Here's the rest of the post for those interested in my old ramblings and predictions http://belartscorner.blogspot.com/2016/ ... iyama.html

I'll add this quote from another big post from last year about transformations which describes Ultra Instinct in a nutshell:

"I think the show needs to rethink its direction and have each transformation provide some useful ability so that the form has a real use and not just quickly get outclassed and discarded when someone else reveals a new form. That is my wish for the show going forward so that it doesn't continue to discard characters every time an arc goes forward. Other shows have already figured this out. I need Toriyama, Toei, Toyotaro and company to figure it out too before they fatigue even the most diehard Dragon Ball fans."
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