Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

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Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by emperior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:11 pm

How would you like to see the battles between UI users play out?

I honestly hope we won't go back to the same old formula about "the strongest wins", and I wish Toriyama will create new ways to make battles interesting. For example, I would love to see Goku working on his pure Martial Arts technique so that his body will move with more precision when using UI. I would also like to see the battles between two mastered UI users being about who has the better raw Martial Arts skill, the better techniques and the better mastery over those techniques.

I wouldn't want to see the battle between two UI users being an autopilot battle where the one with the highest Ki wins - they might as well have a powerlifting competition at that point.
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:16 pm

It will be a battle of stamina, both can Dodge all attacks, eventually beings like that would come to a standstill, saving stamina, they will be simple entities who don't even move and just stand there for all eternity until one of them can't maintain his UI anymore..
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by emperior » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:52 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:It will be a battle of stamina, both can Dodge all attacks, eventually beings like that would come to a standstill, saving stamina, they will be simple entities who don't even move and just stand there for all eternity until one of them can't maintain his UI anymore..
I don’t think beings like Whis have to maintain is UI like Goku does, as Whis has got it mastered, and it would be incredibly lame if a fight between Whis and Grand Priest would just come down to whoever has the most stamina wins.
This is the time for characters to finally focus on techniques. I really hope UI will serve as some sort of power ceiling, although it probably won’t be the case. Hopefully Toriyama has something great in mind.
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:31 pm

emperior wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:It will be a battle of stamina, both can Dodge all attacks, eventually beings like that would come to a standstill, saving stamina, they will be simple entities who don't even move and just stand there for all eternity until one of them can't maintain his UI anymore..
I don’t think beings like Whis have to maintain is UI like Goku does, as Whis has got it mastered, and it would be incredibly lame if a fight between Whis and Grand Priest would just come down to whoever has the most stamina wins.
This is the time for characters to finally focus on techniques. I really hope UI will serve as some sort of power ceiling, although it probably won’t be the case. Hopefully Toriyama has something great in mind.
Techniques can't really work though, Because it's your body doing whatever the hell it wants and you hoping it's working out alright..
If we go logically and take out maintaining UI and stamina out of the equation it will again come down to both users standing around for eternity but this time until one of them ages and dies..

This is probably why whis said gauging people with strength is a bad habit and why angles and above who have it mastered aren't even fighting beings, there is no point to fighting further if this is all it's gonna end up to all the time..
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by namekiansaiyan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:33 pm

Ultra Instinct needs to go away after this arc as it would ruin the series.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Legion » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:38 pm

I honestly hope we won't go back to the same old formula about "the strongest wins"
This is exactly what will happen, especially if the opponent is more stronger, faster, skilled or if he has powerful hax abilities. It all comes back to stats.

We know that Whis has no chance against GP.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Gt91 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:38 pm

Prepare yourself to UI ssj

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:39 pm

emperior wrote:How would you like to see the battles between UI users play out?

I honestly hope we won't go back to the same old formula about "the strongest wins", and I wish Toriyama will create new ways to make battles interesting. For example, I would love to see Goku working on his pure Martial Arts technique so that his body will move with more precision when using UI. I would also like to see the battles between two mastered UI users being about who has the better raw Martial Arts skill, the better techniques and the better mastery over those techniques.

I wouldn't want to see the battle between two UI users being an autopilot battle where the one with the highest Ki wins - they might as well have a powerlifting competition at that point.
Wow, I was also thinking about a hypothetical UI Goku vs UI Vegeta fight.

Imagine a Whis vs Vados fight. But still, "the strongest wins" formula, formulaic as it is, may still be a thing because even though Whis clearly has Ultra Instinct mastered, he himself still claimed that he "couldn't hold a candle" to his father the Grand Priest.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by funrush » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:08 pm

Gt91 wrote:Prepare yourself to UI ssj
I didn't even think about that, but that's really the only way it can go, can it? SSB UI KKx10 Goku is a mouthful though.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Gt91 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:13 pm

funrush wrote:
Gt91 wrote:Prepare yourself to UI ssj
I didn't even think about that, but that's really the only way it can go, can it? SSB UI KKx10 Goku is a mouthful though.
I was joking xD.
I really hope in something different and more original than that.
We'll see :)

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:49 pm

Legion wrote:
I honestly hope we won't go back to the same old formula about "the strongest wins"
This is exactly what will happen, especially if the opponent is more stronger, faster, skilled or if he has powerful hax abilities. It all comes back to stats.

We know that Whis has no chance against GP.
As was said in Naruto, “It doesn’t matter if you can predict your opponent, if you don’t have the speed to move”.

Same thing happened with Observation Haki in One Piece.
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by KingKaash » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:21 pm

I may be totally wrong here but isn't Jiren vs Goku a battle of two UI users? I know there has been no source that clearly states that Jiren has the UI Technique. But Jiren displays all the qualities. When Goku goes to greet him then Jiren somehow appears behind Goku. Then Jiren's ability to dodge the Kachi Katchin flying at him without really moving. And of course the eye flash attack where it looks like he didn't even move but he punches Hit and/or Goku numerous times. So the signs are there of Jiren being an UI user. It just needs to be officially confirmed.

Building off that, I wonder if Jiren has overcome the difficulty of using UI while attacking that Goku currently struggles with as of Ep 116. Knowing how strong Jiren is, I bet he has and that's why he's ahead of UI Goku at this point
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:48 pm

KingKaash wrote:I may be totally wrong here but isn't Jiren vs Goku a battle of two UI users? I know there has been no source that clearly states that Jiren has the UI Technique. But Jiren displays all the qualities. When Goku goes to greet him then Jiren somehow appears behind Goku. Then Jiren's ability to dodge the Kachi Katchin flying at him without really moving. And of course the eye flash attack where it looks like he didn't even move but he punches Hit and/or Goku numerous times. So the signs are there of Jiren being an UI user. It just needs to be officially confirmed.

Building off that, I wonder if Jiren has overcome the difficulty of using UI while attacking that Goku currently struggles with as of Ep 116. Knowing how strong Jiren is, I bet he has and that's why he's ahead of UI Goku at this point
He didn’t dodge the blocks. He predicted their movements and didn’t move. And Whis uses UI with none of the things you named.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Ziegander » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:22 pm

There is still a decent amount of evidence that Jiren is indeed either using UI or an ability that is very similar. It could also explain how, when he knocked Kale out of Berserk the first time, he didn't actually knock her out of the ring. Same goes with when he hit Goku. Goku managed to remain in the ring. Perhaps Jiren actually does struggle with thinking too much about his attacks to utilize UI to its fullest, or perhaps he simply has a different technique.
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Kaiosama » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:09 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:Ultra Instinct needs to go away after this arc as it would ruin the series.
I can get behind this. It should be a one-time thing like Dangai Ichigo in Bleach. Goku will be broken after this arc after surpassing the GoD's

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by FubukiFoxx » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:38 am

To be honest, I'd love to see a 2v1 scenario for the finale; too many times has the final big bad been defeated by one person, time for them to live up to them saying how important teamwork would be.

Obviously Goku would be one of those people, but I'm holding out that his teammate will either be Frieza (like in the Heroes trailer), Gohan or Vegeta.

Ooh, or maybe Piccolo if he got some kind of god form ...[spoiler]from absorbing the U6 Namekians[/spoiler] One can but hope, after all.
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:08 pm

Same as how two kaioken/SSJ users battle, depends on who has the bigger ki and if we add some OG DB logic then actual battle instinct.
Still dont know how this ultra instinct works literally but if it depends on the instinct of the user and it just pushes their instinct in auto pilot then it depends on who has the better instinct.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by emperior » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:24 pm

SansrivaaL wrote:Same as how two kaioken/SSJ users battle, depends on who has the bigger ki and if we add some OG DB logic then actual battle instinct.
Still dont know how this ultra instinct works literally but if it depends on the instinct of the user and it just pushes their instinct in auto pilot then it depends on who has the better instinct.
I hope the limits of Ultra Instinct will be addressed.
I mean, it would be better if it isn't just auto-pilot, so that fighters will still need some degree of skill to win.
Ultra Instinct being auto-reflex and auto-attack means who uses it should still have some freedom of movement, and we even saw Whis signing Goku and Vegeta when he was dodging their attacks so it's not like when using UI one can't think, although his body will decide when it's best to attack and it will auto-dodge any incoming attacks.

UI would also become quite useless if a fight between two UI users was just about whose ki is higher. That would completely eliminate skill from battles, and it would suck. Even if power has always been the main deciding factor in a Dragon Ball battle, we've seen many times our characters trying to figure out cool ways to use their moves, and when to use them; same for transformations - so fights have always taken some degree of skill, which I fear will be missing once every relevant character will master UI.
I'm curious, yet a little scared, about the future of Goku's fights after he masters UI onwards. I'm crossing my fingers that Toriyama and Toei will have some creative ideas, and as I said already many times - I'm all for battles being in favor of the more skilled fighter instead of the more powerful one.
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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by Asura » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:10 pm

emperior wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:Same as how two kaioken/SSJ users battle, depends on who has the bigger ki and if we add some OG DB logic then actual battle instinct.
Still dont know how this ultra instinct works literally but if it depends on the instinct of the user and it just pushes their instinct in auto pilot then it depends on who has the better instinct.
I hope the limits of Ultra Instinct will be addressed.
I mean, it would be better if it isn't just auto-pilot, so that fighters will still need some degree of skill to win.
Did you watch the fight with Kefla? It isn't just auto pilot, Goku almost screwed up by thinking too much and Whis points out he can't use Ultra Instinct offensively very well, only defensively for now.

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Re: Battles between two Ultra Instinct users

Post by HeroR » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:58 pm

Asura wrote:
emperior wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:Same as how two kaioken/SSJ users battle, depends on who has the bigger ki and if we add some OG DB logic then actual battle instinct.
Still dont know how this ultra instinct works literally but if it depends on the instinct of the user and it just pushes their instinct in auto pilot then it depends on who has the better instinct.
I hope the limits of Ultra Instinct will be addressed.
I mean, it would be better if it isn't just auto-pilot, so that fighters will still need some degree of skill to win.
Did you watch the fight with Kefla? It isn't just auto pilot, Goku almost screwed up by thinking too much and Whis points out he can't use Ultra Instinct offensively very well, only defensively for now.

I think they mean after Goku masters the form.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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