What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Rebel Instinct » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:23 pm

Artorias wrote:Also, if I'm being honest, I dislike the manga even more simply because of how beloved it is. Everyone's always going on and on about how it's so much better than the anime and fixes all the issues...and I just don't see it. For every issue it fixes, it creates another one in a different place. So I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that has a bit of extra hate simply because of how much blind praise it gets.
Artorias wrote:The blind praise it gets at least on social media and whatnot is just so baffling to me. People will shit all over the anime for the most mundane issues, and then completely ignore GLARING problems in the manga. I think people are just easily impressed with the pretty pictures, and conflate that with the actual writing being good.
Imaginary boogeymen are fun.

Never mind the fact that there's a thread right here on the front page calling for Toyotaro to be fired with several people in it agreeing that he's "ruining the manga" and should be either fired or replaced with someone else, or the fact that nearly every major Dragon Ball internet personality (both on Youtube and every social media platform and forum you can imagine) constantly mock and ridicule the manga, Toyotaro and their fans, or that the manga discussion thread here on Kanzenshuu has to be locked by the mods every single month to curb the hysterical outrage over leaks, or that last month multiple threads had to be locked to try and contain the sheer amount of outrage. It's no wonder people have started taking breaks from (or outright abandoning) the fandom as of late.

But yeah, no. The manga is over praised. That's totally the real problem that's ailing the fandom. :roll:

And that's not even addressing the ridiculous notion of hating something out of sheer spite because other people like it too much, or acting like it isn't a two way street with people "shitting all over" the manga and ignoring glaring issues with the anime as well.
Artorias wrote:I think people are just easily impressed with the pretty pictures, and conflate that with the actual writing being good.
There's so much irony to unpack about this one statement alone, that I don't even know where to begin.
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LightBing wrote:Most of what's going on here isn't speculation, it's judgments and conclusions. It's the reason why the manga thread is closed, it's the reason why VegettoEX warned people not to do what they are doing a few pages ago.

It's people riveting on their chance to feel validated in their opinion; to attack the "manga fans" (whatever that means) to prove themselves. My assumption is that everyone here is a Dragon Ball fan, capable of having discussions as equals and not segregate ourselves into little sectors trying to be the "superior faction", ignoring arguments, politeness and even common sense (like having all the information at hand).

Clearly I am mistaken.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:09 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:Am I surprised that the Future Trunks arc is the redeeming quality of Dragon Ball: Super for many viewers? No, Why should I be? I am extremely comfortable in saying that the Future Trunks arc is the best arc in Super by far, since it had a gripping and unpredictable plot, an astonishing soundtrack, an eerie and sombre scenery and, of course, Zamasu, one of the most complex, multi-layered, mysterious, successful and dangerous characters in all of Dragon Ball.

Toei should take a hint from that arc once Super comes back. Fewer boring tournaments with garbage antagonists, more story-driven arcs with fascinating villains.
It's popular because it's literally the only arc that's not an extraordinarily dragged out light sparring match (Beerus and Golden Freeza) or a tournament (Champa and Universal Survival). People latch on to what they can get.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by PFM18 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:26 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:Am I surprised that the Future Trunks arc is the redeeming quality of Dragon Ball: Super for many viewers? No, Why should I be? I am extremely comfortable in saying that the Future Trunks arc is the best arc in Super by far, since it had a gripping and unpredictable plot, an astonishing soundtrack, an eerie and sombre scenery and, of course, Zamasu, one of the most complex, multi-layered, mysterious, successful and dangerous characters in all of Dragon Ball.

Toei should take a hint from that arc once Super comes back. Fewer boring tournaments with garbage antagonists, more story-driven arcs with fascinating villains.
It's popular because it's literally the only arc that's not an extraordinarily dragged out light sparring match (Beerus and Golden Freeza) or a tournament (Champa and Universal Survival). People latch on to what they can get.
As if there's anything wrong with, or there was ever anything wrong with a tournament arc? The first 3 are fine, but the last two are just horrible even though each took a new format from the first 3?

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Kogu 87 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:34 am

8/10 for me.
Found the anime highly enjoyable, and it really was something to look forward to every week.
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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by MarCas92 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:46 am

I think Super is the worst Dragon Ball Series by far.

Subjective Anime Ratings (How Much I Enjoy It):
DB: 10/10
DBZ: 10/10
DBGT: 7/10
DBKai: 8/10
DBKai Final Chapters: 7/10
DBS: 6/10

Objective Anime Ratings (My opinion on how good they actually are):
DB: 8/10
DBZ: 6/10
DBGT: 6/10
DBKai: 7/10
DBKai Final Chapters: 7/10
DBS: 4/10
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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:32 am

It still had a completely garbage ending. To me, that prevents it from being the best arc in Super
Yes, It was a far-fetched ending, but the concept was brilliant. For too long have the protagonists relied on the Dragon Balls to boringly undo everything that the antagonist did. But since Zamasu was smart enough to destroy every Dragon Ball in the Future multiverse, the damage that he had done was permanent. And since Zeno erased the entire multiverse to defeat Infinite Zamasu, an astral being, then there was no hope left for the Future timeline. Funny, It reminds me of the Shadow Dragons arc from GT, the arc in which the Dragon Balls turned against the heroes, and could no longer be reliable. It's the same concept, basically. The Super Dragon Balls, after all, are what allowed Zamasu to enact his grand Project Zero Mortals.

The execution was horrible, though, I agree with you. Goku's stupidity reached a new level when he forgot that he brought the Zeno Button along with him, thus paving the way for Zamasu's victory. But the most hilarious thing is that those losers witnessed multiversal genocide, but 30 minutes later they are eating bacon and having fun together. They didn't even hold a memorial for all the victims of Zamasu and Zeno. Ugh, It's a shame, because that was one of the most ambitious endings in Dragon Ball, since it went beyond the usual "comfort zone" of the writers. As opposed to the ending of the Tournament of Power arc, that was the usual "Use the Dragon Balls to wish everyone back".

And the animation for episode 67... Ugh... I guess that most of the budget was spent on episode 66.
It's popular because it's literally the only arc that's not an extraordinarily dragged out light sparring match (Beerus and Golden Freeza) or a tournament (Champa and Universal Survival). People latch on to what they can get.
Indeed, and also because of the villain. Goku Black (so, basically, Zamasu) is one of the most popular Dragon Ball villains by far, just look at the sheer amount of merchandise and fan-art that he has. The writers knew that the idea of an Evil Goku was an old one, and that countless popular fan-fictions revolved around that, so they merely exploited that to their own advantage. Smart move. Compare Jiren or Hit to Goku Black. There is no comparision, It's clear who is the fan-favourite here.

What surprises me is that Goku Black still hasn't returned! You would think that with the massive fanbase that he has, Toei would bring him back in the future.
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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Shinsa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:54 am

I personally think Super is the worst incarnation of DB.

If I were to give a rating to just all DB content within that eco system I would say...

DB -8
DBZ - 8
DBGT - 6
DBS - 5

DBS just doesn't have any tension or many good ideas/ writing for me to consider it engaging. The Future Trucks arc was its high point but the plot holes and botched ending really weight it down.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:13 am

MarCas92 wrote:I think Super is the worst Dragon Ball Series by far.

Subjective Anime Ratings (How Much I Enjoy It):
DB: 10/10
DBZ: 10/10
DBGT: 7/10
DBKai: 8/10
DBKai Final Chapters: 7/10
DBS: 6/10

Objective Anime Ratings (My opinion on how good they actually are):
DB: 8/10
DBZ: 6/10
DBGT: 6/10
DBKai: 7/10
DBKai Final Chapters: 7/10
DBS: 4/10
How exactly do you come to the conclusion that it is the worst by far?
Shinsa wrote:I personally think Super is the worst incarnation of DB.

If I were to give a rating to just all DB content within that eco system I would say...

DB -8
DBZ - 8
DBGT - 6
DBS - 5

DBS just doesn't have any tension or many good ideas/ writing for me to consider it engaging. The Future Trucks arc was its high point but the plot holes and botched ending really weight it down.
What plot holes?

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:42 am

PFM18 wrote:What plot holes?
The time travel is a mess. Surprising considering how the Cell arc's time travel almost worked flawlessly.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:47 am

I'm not going to give Super a rating out of 10 but just say it's my least favorite series. Super has some good things like a decent score (fuck, Sumitomo was bound to FINALLY make a good one), the Dr. Slump episode, Masako Nozawa still voicing the Son family, the first opening is really catchy and the artstyle/animation can be really good at times.

Favorite to Least Favorite Dragon Ball Series

1. Dragon Ball Z
2. Dragon Ball GT
3. Dragon Ball
4. Dragon Ball Kai
5. Super Dragon Ball Heroes
6. Dragon Ball Kai: The Final Chapters
7. Dragon Ball Super

Even though Kai is on 4th place for me, I love it.. as long as it has the Yamamoto score. :P

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:49 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Masako Nozawa still voicing the Son family
Is this really a positive we should grant Super, though? Can't we basically take this for granted as long as she's alive? She wouldn't quit in Super after voicing them for GT and the countless videogames and adverts since then.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:07 am

Doctor. wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:Masako Nozawa still voicing the Son family
Is this really a positive we should grant Super, though? Can't we basically take this for granted as long as she's alive? She wouldn't quit in Super after voicing them for GT and the countless videogames and adverts since then.
I wouldn't count it as one since her Goku has absolutely gone to shit recently, I can't even specify why since she sounds fine voicing other people like Xeno Goku or Black and even Goku himself outside of Super stuff.
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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:10 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:Masako Nozawa still voicing the Son family
Is this really a positive we should grant Super, though? Can't we basically take this for granted as long as she's alive? She wouldn't quit in Super after voicing them for GT and the countless videogames and adverts since then.
I wouldn't count it as one since her Goku has absolutely gone to shit recently, I can't even specify why since she sounds fine voicing other people like Xeno Goku or Black and even Goku himself outside of Super stuff.
It's just her screams that have deteriorated, she's still great at conveying Goku's whimsical side and his serious sides during those rare moments where she drops her voice (Goku taunting Beerus, Zen Exhibition and the "Where are you going?" line when Goku uses Kaioken vs Jiren come to mind). She still has her good screaming moments, I feel. They're rare though. UI Goku was especially bad, which is surprising considering how good her screams have been in Super already (see: Kaioken x10).

Horikawa is the one who is absolutely awful nowadays.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:14 am

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: Is this really a positive we should grant Super, though? Can't we basically take this for granted as long as she's alive? She wouldn't quit in Super after voicing them for GT and the countless videogames and adverts since then.
I wouldn't count it as one since her Goku has absolutely gone to shit recently, I can't even specify why since she sounds fine voicing other people like Xeno Goku or Black and even Goku himself outside of Super stuff.
It's just her screams that have deteriorated, she's still great at conveying Goku's whimsical side and his serious side during those rare moments where she drops her voice. She still has her good screaming moments, I feel. They're rare though. UI Goku was especially bad, which is surprising considering how good her screams have been in Super already (see: Kaioken x10).

Horikawa is the one who is absolutely awful nowadays.
I feel like her whimsical Goku is problematic because she seems to constantly use a higher pitch for it than before and it becomes extra grating thanks to the fact Super Goku almost never takes anything seriously.

I do agree about Horikawa though, he used to voice Vegeta with a bit more... Dignity to his voice I guess? Now he just growls absolutely every line of dialogue.
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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:19 am

Doctor. wrote:
PFM18 wrote:What plot holes?
The time travel is a mess. Surprising considering how the Cell arc's time travel almost worked flawlessly.
I dont see how it is a mess. It functions the same way as the Cell arc outside of the one time loop.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Simere » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:23 am

Something I miss from Nozawa's Goku voice is how quiet and calm he would speak sometimes, like when he first met Future Trunks or first turned SSJ3. When he was talking to Freeza during the ToP arc is the closest I've heard to that tone in Super, and I loved it for that.
Last edited by Simere on Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:25 am

PFM18 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
PFM18 wrote:What plot holes?
The time travel is a mess. Surprising considering how the Cell arc's time travel almost worked flawlessly.
I dont see how it is a mess. It functions the same way as the Cell arc outside of the one time loop.
The time loop itself is a mess, so I'm not sure why you're so nonchalantly disregarding it like it's a meaningless nitpick.

Regardless, no, it doesn't. Super fundamentally changes our understanding of how Dragon Ball time travel works. It used to be that every trip back in time would split the timeline (unless you were already travelling to the same timeline you already split). This was our understanding of how time travel worked for decades. Super changes it so that time only splits into timelines when a significant change to history is made, regardless of whether there has been a trip made to the past or not. This is why both Toei and Toyotaro signal the split in the present and Zamasu timelines at the point where Beerus kills Zamasu, instead of at splitting when Trunks travelled back as it normally should. Not only is this method of conveying time travel changes incredibly obtuse and arbitrary (because what qualifies a change in history?), it's also incredibly dumb when you consider the fact that these timelines have split because of a time loop.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by kudo6000 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:34 am

3/10

Only redeeming qualities are some battle moments and character dynamics, Caulifla, Vados, and Goku Black.

Manga is purely garbage, imho.

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:24 pm

Simere wrote:Something I miss from Nozawa's Goku voice is how quiet and calm she would speak sometimes, like when she first met Future Trunks or first turned SSJ3. When she was talking to Freeza during the ToP arc is the closest I've heard to that tone in Super, and I loved it for that.
Fixed. Nozawa is a girl lol

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Re: What would you rate DBS out of 10?

Post by MarCas92 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:27 pm

PFM18 wrote:
How exactly do you come to the conclusion that it is the worst by far?

Well, it's all subjective but to me personally I just felt everything in Super was really subpar. I could write PAGES on why I feel this way but heres a very bare bones summary.

The animation while great during certain points, I felt was awful to mediocre over 70% of the time.

The 1st 2 arcs were dragged out and very poorly paced and do little/nothing better than the movies they are retelling.

The U6vsU7 Arc had no stakes and didn't take advantage of its unique premise. Goku and Vegeta were the only U7 fighters that got a chance to shine and the U6 fighters were pretty bland characters imo. My favorite arc in the series though.

The Trunks Arc I know is a lot of peoples favorite but I just found it really dull. The mystery while intriguing at first doesn't have a very satisfying conclusion. All the power ups are poorly executed and nonsensical. The villains are fascinating though. However, the jumping back and forth in time got old QUICK and really destroys the pacing. The ending is unsatisfying and emotionally all over the place.

The ToP was abysmal. Some moments were incredible beyond belief, with great fanservice/animation/character moments/music etc. But it dragged on and on on with no real sense of progression and no story at all. By episode 120 I was already praying for it to end. Probably the worst Arc in the entire Anime not just Super imo.
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