What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

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What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Faisal Shourov » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:30 pm

I know we got to see all 12 universes and a bunch of new characters, but we already know what would happen at EoZ. Universe 7 isn't getting erased, or even if it is they will come back with any asspull necessary. The other universes will possibly also be restored with Super Dragon Ball.

So basically anything happening in this arc might as well very likely be reverted completely, so why does the Universal Survival theme matters? This is just a multiversal battle royale with anti-climactic drama and fake tension.

So why make it seem the whole situation so dreadful if nothing dreadful is going to happen? Toei surely knows about EoZ right?

I won't be commenting on how strong or weak the plot is, or powerscaling. That's another topic.
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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Zephyr » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:59 pm

This might be a better question to ask when the arc is actually over. Or, when Super is over. At the moment, we can't see what narrative loose-ends it is going to tie up (ones that were set up before it started, and ones that have been set up since it started), and we can't see what narrative loose-ends it may create and set up. In other words, we don't really know the point until we can see where it sits in the bigger picture.

Regarding "tension", there's certainly none. Or, not much. Like you said, we know what happens at the end of the manga: Universe 7 is alive and well. Shueisha knows that. We know that. They know that we know that. Comments by Toyotaro about "well, we have to get to the manga's ending..." all but sell that notion. There's some tension of "what about these new characters whose fates we don't know?" Could certainly make for some compelling drama....if we were really made to care all that much about them. If the pre-tournament section of the arc was going to be a long as it was, it should have spent more of that time getting us to care about characters we didn't already care about. Instead, time was mostly spent on redundant "how will this character you're already invested in get back into their groove....again!?"

It's also odd that the characters don't seem to be treating this whole situation with the severity and seriousness that you'd expect people to.

That said, what we're already given, I do like. Freeza coming back in Resurrection F was a really shamelessly fanservicey thing to do, and it didn't really amount anything. No lessons were learned, no characters changed or grew. I mean, Freeza trained for the first time, but that was it. This arc gives some worth to his revival. Freeza's been humbled, and he's been doing more training in hell, regaining his composure. On Namek, he was the big guy everyone had to dance around, and now in the ToP, he's the one dancing around the likes of Jiren, saving and healing Goku when it's convenient, and being an all around trickster. I'm legitimately worried that it's all going to be wasted, with Freeza losing his cool at some point and just dying again by the end. If that happens, I'll be disappointed.

In addition to that, I'm loving that we're seeing some payoff to another thing Resurrection F introduced: Goku and Vegeta training with Whis. Ultra Instinct looks to be the ultimate culmination of their tenure under his wing, and I'm genuinely excited to see it.

Gohan and Roshi seem to likewise have received some mild development. But, given the characters in question, I'm definitely not seeing either of these being permanent changes. When the tournament is done, Gohan is going to go back to slacking, and Roshi is going to go back to perving.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by BlueVegerot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:01 pm

To introduce new characters that can be marketed.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by sintzu » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:04 pm

We won't know till it ends but like you said, everything will most likely be restored once it's over so if that's the case then it should've just been a normal tournament.
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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Supersaiyanbulla » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Money and to wank goku even more than ever

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:43 pm

sintzu wrote:We won't know till it ends but like you said, everything will most likely be restored once it's over so if that's the case then it should've just been a normal tournament.
Maybe there'll be some kind of lesson for Zeno where he learns not to be so fickle and careless? Or Goku? That's my best guess. If everything just stays destroyed that's countless lives thrown into the trash just to wank Universe 7, and that's...really not the best note to end on for our heroes. :/

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:43 pm

BlueVegerot wrote:To introduce new characters that can be marketed.
Sure, but this doesn't really add anything to the discussion when posted like this. We ask that more thought be put into your contributions.
Supersaiyanbulla wrote:Money and to wank goku even more than ever
Again, these types of pointless posts are not welcome here. We ask that more thought be put into your contributions.

See Zephyr's post above as an example of the type of content we encourage. You may wish to review the community guidelines.
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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by BlueVegerot » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:59 pm

Zephyr wrote:This might be a better question to ask when the arc is actually over. Or, when Super is over. At the moment, we can't see what narrative loose-ends it is going to tie up (ones that were set up before it started, and ones that have been set up since it started), and we can't see what narrative loose-ends it may create and set up. In other words, we don't really know the point until we can see where it sits in the bigger picture.

Regarding "tension", there's certainly none. Or, not much. Like you said, we know what happens at the end of the manga: Universe 7 is alive and well. Shueisha knows that. We know that. They know that we know that. Comments by Toyotaro about "well, we have to get to the manga's ending..." all but sell that notion. There's some tension of "what about these new characters whose fates we don't know?" Could certainly make for some compelling drama....if we were really made to care all that much about them. If the pre-tournament section of the arc was going to be a long as it was, it should have spent more of that time getting us to care about characters we didn't already care about. Instead, time was mostly spent on redundant "how will this character you're already invested in get back into their groove....again!?"

It's also odd that the characters don't seem to be treating this whole situation with the severity and seriousness that you'd expect people to.

That said, what we're already given, I do like. Freeza coming back in Resurrection F was a really shamelessly fanservicey thing to do, and it didn't really amount anything. No lessons were learned, no characters changed or grew. I mean, Freeza trained for the first time, but that was it. This arc gives some worth to his revival. Freeza's been humbled, and he's been doing more training in hell, regaining his composure. On Namek, he was the big guy everyone had to dance around, and now in the ToP, he's the one dancing around the likes of Jiren, saving and healing Goku when it's convenient, and being an all around trickster. I'm legitimately worried that it's all going to be wasted, with Freeza losing his cool at some point and just dying again by the end. If that happens, I'll be disappointed.

In addition to that, I'm loving that we're seeing some payoff to another thing Resurrection F introduced: Goku and Vegeta training with Whis. Ultra Instinct looks to be the ultimate culmination of their tenure under his wing, and I'm genuinely excited to see it.

Gohan and Roshi seem to likewise have received some mild development. But, given the characters in question, I'm definitely not seeing either of these being permanent changes. When the tournament is done, Gohan is going to go back to slacking, and Roshi is going to go back to perving.
Freeza is the only thing making this tournament semi interesting. He's the only person who can create actual consequences/tension if he gets the dragon balls. I am rooting for him to get them for that reason. I'd rather see him get his wish than see everyone just come back

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by precita » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:07 pm

The real reason is for Goku to discover Ultra Instinct, give the supporting cast something to do in Super for the first time ever, and just let us see what all these other universes are like. Even if nothing changes by the time the arc ends.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Chuquita » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:34 pm

I feel the execution of the idea of this arc isn't as fun as it could've been (I'd have loved them to have gone full Hunger Games) and I feel it would've held more weight if we'd put this arc off until after we had in a couple more arcs where we actually visited some of the other universes whose fighters are competing so we'd know them better.

I agree there's no tension though. I'm enjoying the moments, but there's no fun things for me personally to theorize on like there were in the Gokû Black arc.
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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Venus » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:32 pm

The thing is, we know that EoZ is going to happen eventually, so U7 should be safe, but then again, we don't know what is going to happen at the very end of the ToP.

Imagine that U11 ends up winning, U7 get's erased, but present Zeno doesn't erases Goku because he is his "friend" whatever wish U11 would get granted, may not be restoring the erased universes, the next arc would be Goku being in one of the spared universes trying to somehow get U7 back.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Chuquita » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:01 pm

Venus wrote:The thing is, we know that EoZ is going to happen eventually, so U7 should be safe, but then again, we don't know what is going to happen at the very end of the ToP.

Imagine that U11 ends up winning, U7 get's erased, but present Zeno doesn't erases Goku because he is his "friend" whatever wish U11 would get granted, may not be restoring the erased universes, the next arc would be Goku being in one of the spared universes trying to somehow get U7 back.
I would have fun watching that. I just don't know if Shueisha would take the risk in benching everyone from U7 but Gokû and Whis for at minimum a 15 episode run.
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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Totamo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:51 am

The key to understanding anything in Dragon ball is to ask what would take less work.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:20 am

I don't buy the whole "Well we know what will happen at the EoZ, so there's no drama or tension at all". It's become a bullshit excuse as to why the writing this arc has been so subpar, there are plenty of examples of prequels or stories that take place before the original series yet they are able to keep the dramatic tension going. Just because you know whats going to happen at the EoZ doesn't mean that you can't have an opportunity to invest in the character's struggles - it's just that the ToP hasn't given us any of that.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by MozillaVulpix » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:20 am

Escalation. We saw one universe, and that was mostly similar to the one we knew, so now we see the characters we know be forced into a situation in which they have to fight multiple different personalities and unique fighters at once in a format where it can be both a tournament to test their skills and a situation where team-ups are required. It takes the element of multiple universes introduced in Battle of Gods and lets the audience see the unique fighters other universes would have to offer. Does there really need to be an incredibly drastic change to the status quo of the series for a story arc to be considered worth watching? It's the journey that matters in a story like this, not the destination.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by buutenks » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:15 pm

What is the point of UI, isnt it obvious, a ton of toys to sell and a new form/ technique/whatever.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Asura » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:15 pm

I've seen this question asked before and I don't understand why it's even a question worth asking. You might as well instead just ask "What is the point of Dragon Ball Super?" because we know what happens at the EoZ. The answer to both of these questions is simple though...


MARKETING!

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Yomi » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:54 pm

Asura wrote:I've seen this question asked before and I don't understand why it's even a question worth asking. You might as well instead just ask "What is the point of Dragon Ball Super?" because we know what happens at the EoZ. The answer to both of these questions is simple though...


MARKETING!
I'm still searching for Non-Profit animes; as opposed to "marketing" and merchandise anime like DBS.
:clap:

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Muffin Man » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:55 pm

MozillaVulpix wrote:Escalation. We saw one universe, and that was mostly similar to the one we knew, so now we see the characters we know be forced into a situation in which they have to fight multiple different personalities and unique fighters at once in a format where it can be both a tournament to test their skills and a situation where team-ups are required. It takes the element of multiple universes introduced in Battle of Gods and lets the audience see the unique fighters other universes would have to offer. Does there really need to be an incredibly drastic change to the status quo of the series for a story arc to be considered worth watching? It's the journey that matters in a story like this, not the destination.
The lack of a status quo is one of the things that made DB and DBZ so fun. Things were always changing and evolving.

DBS is like a string of movies where everything has to basically reset at the end.

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Re: What is the point of Universal Survival arc?

Post by Asura » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:57 pm

Yomi wrote:
Asura wrote:I've seen this question asked before and I don't understand why it's even a question worth asking. You might as well instead just ask "What is the point of Dragon Ball Super?" because we know what happens at the EoZ. The answer to both of these questions is simple though...


MARKETING!
I'm still searching for Non-Profit animes; as opposed to "marketing" and merchandise anime like DBS.
Well, when your show/franchise is one of the most successful out of any other show in terms of merchandise sales, how could you not chalk up some facet of it to marketing?

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