What is the problem with Goku using Super Saiyan God in the anime?

[Saturnine]

Yeah, gotta admit that Toyotaro at the very least has a somewhat rigid and sensible idea of where everyone stands in terms of power.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Yeah, gotta admit that Toyotaro at the very least has a somewhat rigid and sensible idea of where everyone stands in terms of power.

It's not just the power-scaling, which is a horse beaten, resurrected, and beaten again over and over around here.

It's the situations themselves, and the narrative presence. SSG was established early on in Toyotaro's manga and had a clear role, but in the anime? It's seemingly come out of nowhere where it hasn't been required.

With things like SSRage, at least it has the purpose of elevating the character to be able to directly go toe-to-toe with Goku Black and Future Zamasu. But SSG? I said it before, but I'll say it again: its role has and can be supplanted by other forms/ideas, like regular SS, SS3, SSB, etc.

[Saturnine]

I think you have to judge it by "periods". I think that in one such period the paradigm was that Goku doesn't use SSj3 because of how taxing it is, and doesn't use SSj God either, because he can fight at that level of power by using a suppressed SSj Blue anyway. Only during the ToP, an endurance battle, did they reintroduce SSj God again, which could be vaguely explainable by Goku wanting to fight at a certain level of power, yet having even less ki drain from it than SSj Blue offered. I could buy it personally, lasting 48 minutes is no small feat after all. The only problem is how it clashes with Saiyan Beyond God, though on the other hand, this level of power hasn't been portrayed in the anime for a long time now. Too bad they went about phasing it out so stealthily, as if they were hoping no one would notice. I don't think even kids are that dumb.

[JazzMazz]

I know a lot of people have commented on how its return has kind of "de-mystified" the form, but this leads to another question. Do you think Blue's treatment in the anime, which is a form established to be more potent than God, adversely effects Super Saiyan Gods mystique as a form through the trivialization of its more powerful counter-part?

For me that isn't the case. As I mentioned, God is the introduction to the realm of the Gods. Once there, it's bound that more powerful enemies and rivals show up and new ways to use the God Ki are discovered (ala Kaioken or the Full Powered version) all building on the foundation of God. Kinda how 3 builds on the regular SSJ. It's the fact that God itself isn't shown as anything special that demystifies it.

Again, I feel like that raises the question, since its been established there are far more powerful opponents that God can't hold its own against, would God have still been special if it was never seen again, but Goku and his adversaries continued to far eclispe its power?

[DragonBallFoodie]

I think it didn't last long enough.

However, I think Yamoshi will wield it in his feature appearance, which will have to be enough.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I think it didn't last long enough.

However, I think Yamoshi will wield it in his feature appearance, which will have to be enough.

AGAIN with the confusion. HOW DO PEOPLE KEEP CONFUSING THIS?!

Yamoshi was the first Super Saiyan, but not the actual first Super Saiyan God. He died, but his wandering spirit enabled the creation of the SSG ritual to allow one of the 6 righteous pure-hearted Saiyans taking part in the ritual to ascend and become a SSG.

The first was over Planet Vegeta, and Goku was presumably the second.

[Draconic]

I know a lot of people have commented on how its return has kind of "de-mystified" the form, but this leads to another question. Do you think Blue's treatment in the anime, which is a form established to be more potent than God, adversely effects Super Saiyan Gods mystique as a form through the trivialization of its more powerful counter-part?

For me that isn't the case. As I mentioned, God is the introduction to the realm of the Gods. Once there, it's bound that more powerful enemies and rivals show up and new ways to use the God Ki are discovered (ala Kaioken or the Full Powered version) all building on the foundation of God. Kinda how 3 builds on the regular SSJ. It's the fact that God itself isn't shown as anything special that demystifies it.

Again, I feel like that raises the question, since its been established there are far more powerful opponents that God can't hold its own against, would God have still been special if it was never seen again, but Goku and his adversaries continued to far eclispe its power?

Yes, it would have been, because it would have been the foundation that allows the characters to have a chance to take down these adversaries in the first place. Like Super Saiyan 3 with Super Saiyan. In the original run Super Saiyan is basically the moment Goku and the characters transcend to galactic/universal levels of power and from then on, every power-up they get is by mastering and pushing it to it's limits. Unlike God, regular Super Saiyan is the first transformation so keeping it while using the powered-up versions isn't that big a deal. That was the status quo of the series. God, in turn, is supposed to shake that. The overly spiky, muscular and ridiculous forms of pushing one's self further are in-universe treated as ridiculous and the wrong way of doing things, while the firey, elegant God is the door to the right way. Having it be just one of the many ridiculous forms only fuels the "this isn't even my final form" mentality of the protagonists, instead of being a rebuttal of it.

A fine way of brining it back, would be to have it in conjuction with only regular Super Saiayan and Blue. SSJ is the natural, biological way of the Saiayns to get stronger, God is a non-traditional way of powering up, requiring the Saiyans to be the opposite of everything they represent and therefore Blue would be the best of both worlds.

God is special to me, because it represents a transition, from the primal ways of powering up of the mortal Saiyan, to the sensible and refined ways of the divine. As long as Blue was never shown to be inefficient or weak against adversaries because of what it was, aka God ki, God training, calm Ki, new ways, all the jazz, SSG would't feel eclipsed even if it was surpassed. For example, Kami's or Kaio's training of Goku never feels demystified, even when the big bad aliens come, since it's because the skills aquired from those trainers that lets the heroes contend with the villians in the first place. Having God just be one of the many forms of Goku that he uses as much as any other is kinda like having Goku still trying to track his opponent with his eyes instead of tracking him by his Ki. Especially with how little he uses the from in the anime, instead opting for SSJ2 or straight Blue, depending on the opponent.

[AvatarReiko]

The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.

But that is what we're told in BOG. Beerus says outright that Goku absorbed some of SSJ God's power in his base. Hence, Goku being able to keep up with Beerus with just normal SSJ and overpowering 4th Frieza(who was stronger than Buu Arc Gohan in 1st form) in his base form

[mahakaishin1991]

It's all really to do with how strong the story set out for the major antagonist to be for each major arc after the events for Battle Of Gods. All of the major opponents/antagonist that Goku faced after Battle Of Gods in the anime were stronger than Super Saiyan God (Freeza, Hit, Goku Black, Zamasu and Jiren), so in those cases, having the reintroduction of Super Saiyan God would have been redundant.

The manga on the other hand, has characters like Hit, Goku Black and Zamasu weaker than Super Saiyan God, making the inclusion of the form more natural to that story.

Goku's situation with Dyspo was basically Goku thinking Super Saiyan God would be enough, as supposed to any other form at that time. Of course, when Goku sees Super Saiyan God isn't enough to get the job done, he switches to Super Saiyan Blue momentarily to counterattack Dyspo's speed.

Goku Black wasn't weaker than Super Saiyan God, and Zamasu was not even at SS3 level.

I always wonder about using forms to gauge levels.

Whose super saiyan 3 are we talking about? Goku or Gotenks?

[TobyS]

I know everyone flips out when you say this but they retconned or at least soft retconned the "absorbed SSG in base" thing, really obviously.

Toriyama wanted it that way for simplicity but either changed his mind or was ignored/convinced out of it for marketing reasons.

Red looks dope so IDC.

[Saturnine]

The problem is that guys like SethTheProgrammer think that he's got the full power of SSj God in base now, and yet going SSj God itself multiplies it by thousands of times again, that's the problem.

But that is what we're told in BOG. Beerus says outright that Goku absorbed some of SSJ God's power in his base. Hence, Goku being able to keep up with Beerus with just normal SSJ and overpowering 4th Frieza(who was stronger than Buu Arc Gohan in 1st form) in his base form

Things said/shown later trump things said earlier. That was the original intention, it was not shown to hold up afterwards though.

[Chuquita]

I have no problem with ssjg. It's my favorite Gokû power up. It's cute and cool. I don't care about power levels or scaling. I'm just happy to see more of it. It's one of the highlights of this tournament for me.

[Miracles]

People are confused cause they thought that Goku actually had the full power of SSJG when he absorbed it. Hence the false fandom idea of "base god Goku."
There is no such thing. Goku absorbed the god powers and "made it his own." Meaning, he can now transform into SSJG at will and the absorption of it has now powered up all his modes.

[Saturnine]

People are confused cause they thought that Goku actually had the full power of SSJG when he absorbed it. Hence the false fandom idea of "base god Goku."
There is no such thing. Goku absorbed the god powers and "made it his own." Meaning, he can now transform into SSJG at will and the absorption of it has now powered up all his modes.

To what degree does it power up all his modes though if he can still access THE mode?

[Miracles]

People are confused cause they thought that Goku actually had the full power of SSJG when he absorbed it. Hence the false fandom idea of "base god Goku."
There is no such thing. Goku absorbed the god powers and "made it his own." Meaning, he can now transform into SSJG at will and the absorption of it has now powered up all his modes.

To what degree does it power up all his modes though if he can still access THE mode?

The definite power was not stated. However Beerus said that even being in Super Saiyan, Goku didn't "power down all that much." Meaning the modes from base to SSJ3 are weaker than SSJG.

[KuririnNoKotoKa]

I know a lot of people have commented on how its return has kind of "de-mystified" the form, but this leads to another question. Do you think Blue's treatment in the anime, which is a form established to be more potent than God, adversely effects Super Saiyan Gods mystique as a form through the trivialization of its more powerful counter-part?

Gods return, in both versions, is just a symptom of modern DB's complete and total inability of letting shit go.

God's story was done, it's purpose was fullfilled. Blue is the default, there was no reason for it to come back at all, it adds nothing of value to either version of the series. Hell, in the manga it reduces Blue's value even more because it's deemed to just be a God power up (note: Blue shouldn't have ever been treated as anything special to begin with, but as it was, God's return does indirectly diminish it.)

The mechanics of the transformations were never the driving force of Dragon Ball, with the brief exception of SS Grade 2 and 3 and even then they exist to be failures, until the manga version of the Future Trunks arc came out, and now that has leaked into the anime's version too.

All in all, awful handling of God/Blue from all parties involved.

[Saturnine]

People are confused cause they thought that Goku actually had the full power of SSJG when he absorbed it. Hence the false fandom idea of "base god Goku."
There is no such thing. Goku absorbed the god powers and "made it his own." Meaning, he can now transform into SSJG at will and the absorption of it has now powered up all his modes.

To what degree does it power up all his modes though if he can still access THE mode?

The definite power was not stated. However Beerus said that even being in Super Saiyan, Goku didn't "power down all that much." Meaning the modes from base to SSJ3 are weaker than SSJG.

That is once again a statement from the BoG movie/arc, it doesn't necessarily hold valid for later arcs either. That is unless you think Cabba is god tier without ever even becoming a regular SSj, or that Future Trunks is god tier too. Or that Ultimate Gohan is alreay way past SSjG only a couple hours after regaining his "former power" See? That's the problem.

[Miracles]

To what degree does it power up all his modes though if he can still access THE mode?

The definite power was not stated. However Beerus said that even being in Super Saiyan, Goku didn't "power down all that much." Meaning the modes from base to SSJ3 are weaker than SSJG.

That is once again a statement from the BoG movie/arc, it doesn't necessarily hold valid for later arcs either. That is unless you think Cabba is god tier without ever even becoming a regular SSj, or that Future Trunks is god tier too. Or that Ultimate Gohan is alreay way past SSjG only a couple hours after regaining his "former power" See? That's the problem.

The problem is the fandom trying to disregard the canon movies which the Dragonball Super series is continued from.
If they actually payed attention to BOG they wouldn't make statements like Cabba being god tier.

[Saturnine]

The problem is the fandom trying to disregard the canon movies which the Dragonball Super series is continued from.
If they actually payed attention to BOG they wouldn't make statements like Cabba being god tier.

And they are correct to disregard the movies. The movies are their own thing and the anime is its own thing. In the movie, SSj God Goku has 60% of the power of Beerus, while in the anime only in Ultra Instinct is even remotely in the same ballpark as Beerus. That alone should give you food for thought.

Also, about Cabba - if Vegeta has God power in base, like he was shown to have in the RoF movie, then him being evenly matched with Cabba definitely means that Cabba is also God tier. That's unless you understand that what worked for one-off theatrical releases, wasn't optimal for a long-running series, which Toriyama, Toyotaro and Toei all realized and retconned the godly absorbed base (Saiyan Beyond God), with the exception of some between-arc episodes (don't want to call them filler), because the writers apparently didn't get the memo yet.

[Miracles]

The problem is the fandom trying to disregard the canon movies which the Dragonball Super series is continued from.
If they actually payed attention to BOG they wouldn't make statements like Cabba being god tier.

And they are correct to disregard the movies. The movies are their own thing and the anime is its own thing. In the movie, SSj God Goku has 60% of the power of Beerus, while in the anime only in Ultra Instinct is even remotely in the same ballpark as Beerus. That alone should give you food for thought.

Also, about Cabba - if Vegeta has God power in base, like he was shown to have in the RoF movie, then him being evenly matched with Cabba definitely means that Cabba is also God tier. That's unless you understand that what worked for one-off theatrical releases, wasn't optimal for a long-running series, which Toriyama, Toyotaro and Toei all realized and retconned the godly absorbed base (Saiyan Beyond God), with the exception of some between-arc episodes (don't want to call them filler), because the writers apparently didn't get the memo yet.

Except Goku and Vegeta does NOT have god power in base. The absorption of god powers only increased all their modes. Vegeta and Goku only have god powers when they go red and blue.
The bold is also wrong. This is why the fandom isn't right to dismiss the movies when the anime and manga CONTINUE from BoG and RoF. This is exactly why all their story points are inaccurate.